I have seen enough of him
- BeadyEyedDouche

His utility is as a sweetner in a trade package. That is it unless Botts convinces Bowman his potential is much better than Dach's, lol.

I don't know how you can say the drafting is worse. I also can't say it's better. What I do know is that Murray had 3 drafts and picked 3 players that have made even an impact in the NHL 4-6 years after they were drafted (2 guys picked at #2) with possibly a 4th in Asplund. Everyone else you mentioned is garbage. Botts draft picks are 1-3 years after being picked, and so far he has 1 (guy picked #1) to make an impact, with promise from a few guys. The point is that it's too early to tell if there are impact players from Botts drafting, while we're starting to see that Murray depleted the farm system in trades and didn't draft all that well (Oloffson being the extreme outlier, which yes he gets credit.
- SDSabre

Obviously we will have to wait on Botts picks. You can’t say some of those players were “garbarge”. Pu, Guhle and Nylander were assets Botts used to aquire players. Positive for Botts but were players Murray brought in that Botts used as currency.

Right now after 3 years I think Eichel, Reinhart and Oloffson are better than Botts three best players in Dahlin, Mitts and Cozens.

Botts group of Davidsson, UPL, Samuelson and Johnson are prob better than Asplund, Borgen and Johansson though. Obviously I’m hoping some of those later round picks hit too but the odds are slim.

I just think it’s laughable when people say Murray set rebuild back 10 years then in more time Botts really hasn’t did much more.

Ya some of those picks you highlighted on Murray didn’t work out but Botts used that currency to acquire some of his stuff. Skinner should of been traded at the deadline last year, his value was high. If Botts wanted to slow play this rebuild for a couple more years then Skinner never should of been signed.

As far as Murray burning a 1st for Lehner that was currency he used by trading a player and acquiring an extra pick when he was GM. Botts can do that himself, nothing is stopping him from trading Reinhart, Risto or Skinner last year for more picks too.

Plus Lehner has been one of the best goalies in the league the past two years. Was solid for us for two years and sucked for a year and was let go for free. Didn’t seem to work out here but maybe he could of been traded by Botts right when he got here. Botts held on to him for too long

Missing on lemuiex and a couple other players doesn’t change the fact that Murray prob left the same amount of goods that Botts would be leaving if he was fired today. Obviously Murray failed because he could of left Even MORE which was one of his big downfalls.

I just don’t see what the Bott apologists see that he’s doing so much better
- Fattony1187

So trade Skinner who still had his NTC in

Depending on what team was on his list would make that very difficult

Trade Risto whose value was at an all time low?

Trade Reinhart who is on a very team friendly deal?

I am not saying Botts is killing it because he's not

If Cozens doesn't work out its not good at all

But to say he is Murray level is crazy

He was one of the best goal scores that year, he would of most likely waived to go to a team. I rather have a 1st and 9 million cap space right now then his contract.

He is gonna be the next Gms Okposo.
- Fattony1187

And any team in the playoffs last year had cap space to acquire him?

And any team in the playoffs last year had cap space to acquire him?
- Stripes77

Might have had to take an expiring contract for a year but who cares if we were tanking. You guys act like no player has ever waived a NTC before. Skinner already did it once last year.

You really think no team had interest in Skinner?? He was on pace for 50 goals at time of trade deadline. If we are tanking this year too we could of took a bad contract for rest of year last year and this year. Someone would of traded for him. Plus his cap hit last year wasn’t even that high

His utility is as a sweetner in a trade package. That is it unless Botts convinces Bowman his potential is much better than Dach's, lol.
- IonSabres

That spin-o-rama proved to me that talent and hard work no longer matter in a sport where it's all about class. Can you imagine if the other major 3 scouted and drafted players based on social status and esteem like the NHL does?

I get that drafting 18 year olds is harder to judge than drafting 22 year olds but that's on the system that the IIHF, NHL, CHL, ETC... and their various affiliates has created.

Obviously we will have to wait on Botts picks. You can’t say some of those players were “garbarge”. Pu, Guhle and Nylander were assets Botts used to aquire players. Positive for Botts but were players Murray brought in that Botts used as currency.

Right now after 3 years I think Eichel, Reinhart and Oloffson are better than Botts three best players in Dahlin, Mitts and Cozens.

Botts group of Davidsson, UPL, Samuelson and Johnson are prob better than Asplund, Borgen and Johansson though. Obviously I’m hoping some of those later round picks hit too but the odds are slim.

I just think it’s laughable when people say Murray set rebuild back 10 years then in more time Botts really hasn’t did much more.
- Fattony1187

I can 100% say that they are garbage. Because they are garbage. Pu is having a hard time playing in the ECHL. Nylander couldn't make it work with Patty Kane or Toews. Guhle played 18 games this year (he still may have some hope, but more of a 4/5 type dman). I think the overriding theme that you seem to miss is that Botts followed Murray. Murray did set us back a long ways. We had a terrible cupboard and terrible team. These two things combined generally lead to not great things. Botts hasn't done much better (but turning Pu (plus picks) into Skinner, Nylander into Joker, and Guhle + pick into Montour by far and away was better then anything Murray did. Botts has also made mistakes as well (ROR trade, possible Skinner signing, handling of Mitts) but has time to correct/and or still see how HIS picks play out. Murray is/was/and forever will be trash and he did set the Sabres back quite a ways regardless of what Botts does.

Draft comparisons Botts vs. Murray. Not seeing where Botts gets so much praise over Murray here. Here would be the players left for Botts and the guys Botts would leave for next GM

Drafting is equal if not worse, has handed out bad contracts, bungled trades.
- Fattony1187

How is it fair comparing drafts when Murray's guys are 22-24 years old compared to Botts guys at 18-21?
And while some would agree that the Skinner contract is bad, what other bad contracts did Botts hand out?
Let's not forget some other bad trades by GMTM like Mcnabb, Parker and two 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers
A 2nd for Gorges
A 3rd to talk to Vesey

Might have had to take an expiring contract for a year but who cares if we were tanking. You guys act like no player has ever waived a NTC before. Skinner already did it once last year.

You really think no team had interest in Skinner?? He was on pace for 50 goals at time of trade deadline. If we are tanking this year too we could of took a bad contract for rest of year last year and this year. Someone would of traded for him. Plus his cap hit last year wasn’t even that high
- Fattony1187

How many big names get dealt at the trade deadline these days?

Most teams are really careful when they make moves at the deadline

A depth/role player here and there

You don't see these big named trades anymore

It's almost like team chemistry is important

How is it fair comparing drafts when Murray's guys are 22-24 years old compared to Botts guys at 18-21?
And while some would agree that the Skinner contract is bad, what other bad contracts did Botts hand out?
Let's not forget some other bad trades by GMTM like Mcnabb, Parker and two 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers
A 2nd for Gorges
A 3rd to talk to Vesey
- adambuffalo

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen

How is it fair comparing drafts when Murray's guys are 22-24 years old compared to Botts guys at 18-21?
And while some would agree that the Skinner contract is bad, what other bad contracts did Botts hand out?
Let's not forget some other bad trades by GMTM like Mcnabb, Parker and two 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers
A 2nd for Gorges
A 3rd to talk to Vesey
- adambuffalo

Not to mention that 3 years later Tim Murray isn't employed at the NHL level. There's gotta be a reason this is the case. Because he's bad, really bad. Unless you know, raw deal, putz putz, I may never be right but I'm never wrong 3ER wants to tell me Tim Murray's accolades in the QMJHL.

How is it fair comparing drafts when Murray's guys are 22-24 years old compared to Botts guys at 18-21?
And while some would agree that the Skinner contract is bad, what other bad contracts did Botts hand out?
Let's not forget some other bad trades by GMTM like Mcnabb, Parker and two 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers
A 2nd for Gorges
A 3rd to talk to Vesey
- adambuffalo

Time is a flat circle

How is it fair comparing drafts when Murray's guys are 22-24 years old compared to Botts guys at 18-21?
And while some would agree that the Skinner contract is bad, what other bad contracts did Botts hand out?
Let's not forget some other bad trades by GMTM like Mcnabb, Parker and two 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers
A 2nd for Gorges
A 3rd to talk to Vesey
- adambuffalo

I don’t think anyone is sticking up for Murray. He’s was a disaster. I listed guys Murray drafted who have made an impact or were used as assets in Botts trades compared to Botts draft picks. Obviously Botts guys have time to develop but at this point right now imo and with scouting reports, if Botts was fired today it’s not like he is leaving way more to the next GM than what Botts left him.

What Murray left Botts that Botts won’t be leaving the next GM is several more worse contracts. Obviously horrible.

As far as Murray burning more picks, Murray sold players and acquired those extra players. Botts could of and still could do the same thing. Murray could of left Botts even more stuff but didn’t. Obviously one of reasons why he sucked.

I just don’t get the love for Botts. He’s been here longer now, has had three poor seasons too. He better hope some of those 2-3rd rd players hit big or he will go down as a disaster too

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen
- Stripes77

Murray traded away i think 2 seconds and McNabb for nothing in D-lo and whatever that one slugs name from LA system was too.. that was a disaster of a trade

*Leivo
*Grimaldi
*Nieto

*Let's not turn this conversation into a Stan Girgensons discussion.

It's not that I want more from Girgensons. It's that I want more production from a bottom 6 player. Whoa is me for wanting a respectable product.
- TheSabresTaco

Nieto is being used in a similar role (def zone starts)
But not Grimaldi or Leivo

And all 3 of those guys score roughly the same goals as Girgs (Girgs actually has 1 or 2 more than each of them)
Those other guys have more assists

But if you’re playing them with Larsson & Okposo,
is someone like Nieto really gonna have 20+ assists?
I don’t think so

Girgs-Larsson-Okposo has been the best line this season for us as far as getting the job done they’re asked to do

Okposo plays 12:05 per
Girgs 13:30
Larsson 14:44

Maybe get them all down to about 12min a game,
but that’s only if the other bottom6 line is scoring
That’s what needs to be fixed

The middle6 is our issue
Not the Eichel line, not the Lockport line

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen
- Stripes77

Botterill has done that as well.

As for setting the franchise back years, realistically this is probably a playoff team or damn close if he-who-shall-not-be-named is on the roster. If you want to put that on Pegula instead of Botterill, go for it

How many big names get dealt at the trade deadline these days?

Most teams are really careful when they make moves at the deadline

A depth/role player here and there

You don't see these big named trades anymore

It's almost like team chemistry is important
- Stripes77

Marc Stone, Matt Duchene, Kevin Hayes all expiring contracts all got hauls in trades. All last trade deadline. Your point is mute.

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen
- Stripes77

First time caller long time listener,

Totally agree. Tough to build a house without a foundation and that's what murray tried to do. Look at how Rochester has done during botts tenure compared to Murray's. Botterill hasn't been flawless but hes been much better than Murray.

I think when he got the job he convinced Pegula that this particular off season was where he'd make his hay, theres a lot of moving parts but I believe this team is finally on the right track and things are trending up.

I'll hang up and listen.

I don’t think anyone is sticking up for Murray. He’s was a disaster. I listed guys Murray drafted who have made an impact or were used as assets in Botts trades compared to Botts draft picks. Obviously Botts guys have time to develop but at this point right now imo and with scouting reports, if Botts was fired today it’s not like he is leaving way more to the next GM than what Botts left him.

What Murray left Botts that Botts won’t be leaving the next GM is several more worse contracts. Obviously horrible.

As far as Murray burning more picks, Murray sold players and acquired those extra players. Botts could of and still could do the same thing. Murray could of left Botts even more stuff but didn’t. Obviously one of reasons why he sucked.

I just don’t get the love for Botts. He’s been here longer now, has had three poor seasons too. He better hope some of those 2-3rd rd players hit big or he will go down as a disaster too
- Fattony1187

This point that I bolded

Botts is here longer, he has to be, he had next to nothing to work with when he got here.

I don't think that should be forgotten

Plus if you want to look at Oloffson it took him 6 years after he was draft to make it to the NHL and be an impactful player

That right there is why there needs to be some patience

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen
- Stripes77

i don't understand how this is still going on

People acting like Botts was just going to come in here and turn it around just like that.

Murray screwed this franchise up for a decade

Murray is about 80% responsible for the wasting of Eichel in his prime

Botts gets the other 20%

But instead of just throwing away 1st round picks to try to get better like Murray did, Botts is taking a methodical approach

I don't know if his approach is the right one long term, we know it's not short term.

The one thing I fault Botts on is having 13 NHL defensemen
- Stripes77

Good post.

How many big names get dealt at the trade deadline these days?

Most teams are really careful when they make moves at the deadline

A depth/role player here and there

You don't see these big named trades anymore

It's almost like team chemistry is important
- Stripes77

Last two years a few have been moved...Duchenne, Dzingel, Stone, Kane, Nash and Stastny.

Lebrun-

Penguins trying to move Galchenyuk
It’s just not worked out for Alex Galchenyuk in Pittsburgh and teams around the league are hearing from the Penguins that they’re very much open to trading him, as I reported last Thursday night on TSN’s “Insider Trading.”

The asking price is believed to be either a draft pick or a bottom-six forward. He’s UFA July 1 and carries a $4.9-million cap hit.


Alex Galchenyuk. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)
There are two camps with the 25-year-old Galchenyuk: Either you’ve seen enough of him and believe that he’s never going to figure it out, or this is a screaming opportunity to buy-low and be the team that benefits from him getting one last fresh start.

Who knows, right?

I will tell you that nobody in the Penguins organization has complained about Galchenyuk, the person, there have been no issues there. This is strictly a hockey decision. For whatever reason, he’s just not been a fit with the Penguins. Of late, Galchenyuk has been skating on the fourth line and well, that’s not a match for his skill set.

It may be that GM Jim Rutherford doesn’t find a trade partner and holds onto him. Sometimes it’s funny how that can work out and maybe Galchenyuk ends up figuring it out for Pittsburgh come playoff time.

But for now, he’s very much available. The Sabres are banged up at the forward position and if the price was cheap enough, I wouldn’t mind seeing Buffalo GM Jason Botterill take a test drive on Galchenyuk for the rest of the season.

As for Rutherford, keep on eye on the trade-happy GM. With Jake Guentzel out long term, there’s no question Rutherford is eyeing the market to see what’s out there. Now, it’s not as simple as saying he’s got $6 million to spend because that’s what sits on LTIR with Guentzel. It’s not Monopoly money. Sure the Penguins now have cap room because of the injury, but it’s still $6 million in real life being paid out to an injured player. Which is to say, every team has a budget, even the Penguins. But I do think Rutherford would eye some type of hockey deal where a roster player goes out to make it all work.


- TheSabresTaco

I’d swing the bat on Gally
Especially if all it takes is someone like Vesey or a mid-round pick

He’s got plenty of offensive talent

First time caller long time listener,

Totally agree. Tough to build a house without a foundation and that's what murray tried to do. Look at how Rochester has done during botts tenure compared to Murray's. Botterill hasn't been flawless but hes been much better than Murray.

I think when he got the job he convinced Pegula that this particular off season was where he'd make his hay, theres a lot of moving parts but I believe this team is finally on the right track and things are trending up.

I'll hang up and listen.
- Brochilldude

Post more, read less

Marc Stone, Matt Duchene, Kevin Hayes all expiring contracts all got hauls in trades. All last trade deadline. Your point is mute.
- Fattony1187

None of those had NTC's

Ottawa is a cheap as they come or they wouldn't have moved Stone

The Hayes deal didn't move the needle for Winnipeg

Duchene wasn't traded at the deadline???? EDIT Forgot he played in Columbus