This point that I bolded

Botts is here longer, he has to be, he had next to nothing to work with when he got here.

I don't think that should be forgotten

Plus if you want to look at Oloffson it took him 6 years after he was draft to make it to the NHL and be an impactful player

That right there is why there needs to be some patience
- Stripes77

Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart
Kane-ROR
Larsson-Girgs-Okposo
Erod-Asplund

McCabe-Risto
Bogo-(Borgen)

Ullmark

That's hardly "next to nothing"


What he has done is next to nothing

Last two years a few have been moved...Duchenne, Dzingel, Stone, Kane, Nash and Stastny.
- adambuffalo

None of those teams won making those transactions in season and 6/8 names are now on new teams then the ones that traded for them.

The Sabres are not in a position to trade rentals.

Our best hope is that we finish bottom 10 at this point and swing for the fences in the offseason.

Why yes I would, thank you for asking.

Points obviously not only determining factor.

All things equal, if the new guy can score 10-15 more points consistently, I'd personally give him the extra million.
- TheSabresTaco

Taco- what if the new guy that you pay more, scores less goals than expected immediately after arriving in buffalo?

Sheary
Vesey
Johansson
Okposo
Sobotka
Tage t to some degree

For example?

You know what your getting in girgs, whether you like it or not. Controlled environment

I’d swing the bat on Gally
Especially if all it takes is someone like Vesey or a mid-round pick

He’s got plenty of offensive talent
- jdfitz77

Agree.... offer them any of the expiring forwards... add if the money needs to work out... stick gally at 2c and tell him to go... should have been done a month ago!

None of those had NTC's

Ottawa is a cheap as they come or they wouldn't have moved Stone

The Hayes deal didn't move the needle for Winnipeg

Duchene wasn't traded at the deadline???? EDIT Forgot he played in Columbus
- Stripes77

Dude really? Duchene was traded a couple weeks before, no reason Skinner couldn’t of. Who cares if Hayes didn’t move the needle that had nothing to do with the point that he was traded and NY received a 1st. That could of been Skinner.

You make a dumb take that no one was traded (when there was) then your defense is one of the trades didn’t work out?? There were people moved last year, some for big hauls. Skinner could of been traded.

How about this?

Plus this bad contract he handed out I am assuming you mean Skinner...what would you have said if he let him walk?

Botts tried to band aid this team together this off season to make it look decent to good enough

It didn't work

But the damage that was done by Murray is deeper than just overpaying while making trades.

He set this franchise back a decade
- Stripes77

Plus all the picks GMTM traded away and flat out missed on

GMTM was absolutely horrible

We don’t know yet about Botts’ picks

Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart
Kane-ROR
Larsson-Girgs-Okposo
Erod-Asplund

McCabe-Risto
Bogo-(Borgen)

Ullmark

That's hardly "next to nothing"


What he has done is next to nothing
- jcragcrumple

Dahlin, Montour, Joker, Skinner, are paying immediate dividends.

Cozens, Mitts, UPL are prime assets with potential.

The one thing he hasn’t done is replace ROR but every other facet of this team is better.

To the contrary of popular belief, the Sabres are actually one of the better defensive teams in the league because Botts retooled the defence corps and Kruger’s system is limiting high danger chances.

We are an average NHL goaltender and an average 2C away from being a top 3 team in the Atlantic for the next 10 years, just breathe.

The top 10 pick this year is just the icing on the cake.

Plus all the picks GMTM traded away and flat out missed on

GMTM was absolutely horrible

We don’t know yet about Botts’ picks
- jdfitz77

yeah McNabb and picks and got nothing out of any of it.

Dahlin, Montour, Joker, Skinner, are paying immediate dividends.

Cozens, Mitts, UPL are prime assets with potential.

The one thing he hasn’t done is replace ROR but every other facet of this team is better.

To the contrary of popular belief, the Sabres are actually one of the better defensive teams in the league because Botts retooled the defence corps and Kruger’s system is limiting high danger chances.

We are an average NHL goaltender and an average 2C away from being a top 3 team in the Atlantic for the next 10 years, just breathe.

The top 10 pick this year is just the icing on the cake.
- Pegullaville

and Botts will use it to select a D man probably.

he needs to address the 2nd line.

Crack. Don't do it kids.
- BeadyEyedDouche

You’re the one that lives in Lockport....

Dahlin, Montour, Joker, Skinner, are paying immediate dividends.

Cozens, Mitts, UPL are prime assets with potential.

The one thing he hasn’t done is replace ROR but every other facet of this team is better.

To the contrary of popular belief, the Sabres are actually one of the better defensive teams in the league because Botts retooled the defence corps and Kruger’s system is limiting high danger chances.

We are an average NHL goaltender and an average 2C away from being a top 3 team in the Atlantic for the next 10 years, just breathe.

The top 10 pick this year is just the icing on the cake.
- Pegullaville

Great.

But I dont want to hear that he was handed nothing when he was handed 5/6ths of a top 6, an Elite 1C, a middle pair and the current starting goalie

Plus all the picks GMTM traded away and flat out missed on

GMTM was absolutely horrible

We don’t know yet about Botts’ picks
- jdfitz77

We went from one end of the spectrum to the other in Murray and Botts.

Botts has no excuses left this offseason though in terms of making a move for acquire a 2C as he has like 90% roster flexibility and assets.

Don’t go full Murray, but make a relevant hockey trade

When you don’t have a roster than can win a playoff series, improving your odds to win a top three lottery pick is the only thing that makes sense. The move from 12th to 8th is more like a move from 7th to fourth. And any improvement to the odds at winning a lottery pick is much more important than missing the playoffs by a few less points.
- Beethoven

It's random. It's all (frank)ing random. You can say get a better pick, I can say get a worse pick, and there's a chance that either one of us can be right. It matters -nothing-.

Plus all the picks GMTM traded away and flat out missed on

GMTM was absolutely horrible

We don’t know yet about Botts’ picks
- jdfitz77

The tear down job that Murray did was good, it's what he did with those picks which killed us.

He sold Pegula (or maybe Pegula wanted it) that they could do a quick rebuild.

Obviously you can't

Why have Botts make the same mistake?

Not to mention that 3 years later Tim Murray isn't employed at the NHL level. There's gotta be a reason this is the case. Because he's bad, really bad. Unless you know, raw deal, putz putz, I may never be right but I'm never wrong 3ER wants to tell me Tim Murray's accolades in the QMJHL.
- SDSabre

😂😂😂

The tear down job that Murray did was good, it's what he did with those picks which killed us.

He sold Pegula (or maybe Pegula wanted it) that they could do a quick rebuild.

Obviously you can't

Why have Botts make the same mistake?
- Stripes77

I mean the scenario is a little different. quick build is a hard sell when most of your would be core players value is still in limbo.

I.e can't promise you immediate dividends going into a season where Reinhart and Eichel had played a combined 9 games in their NHL careers.

That's not really the case anymore. The core is more or less there and proven. Whats keeping them from the playoffs is either forward depth or an above average goalie. Since the former is usually easier (cheaper) to add I don't think it would be unreasonable for someone to sell a quick turn around on the premise that they add inexpensive forward depth.

When you don’t have a roster than can win a playoff series, improving your odds to win a top three lottery pick is the only thing that makes sense. The move from 12th to 8th is more like a move from 7th to fourth. And any improvement to the odds at winning a lottery pick is much more important than missing the playoffs by a few less points.
- Beethoven

Dude where were you last year when I was getting crushed for this for 3 months in wanting to bottom out for Cozens ?

You could have co-piloted the tank train.

What Murray left Botts that Botts won’t be leaving the next GM is several more worse contracts. Obviously horrible.

- Fattony1187

And no GM probably came into the great situation that Darcy left GMTM. He just didn't do anything worthwhile with the 'treasure trove' of assets he was left.

I can 100% say that they are garbage. Because they are garbage. Pu is having a hard time playing in the ECHL. Nylander couldn't make it work with Patty Kane or Toews. Guhle played 18 games this year (he still may have some hope, but more of a 4/5 type dman). I think the overriding theme that you seem to miss is that Botts followed Murray. Murray did set us back a long ways. We had a terrible cupboard and terrible team. These two things combined generally lead to not great things. Botts hasn't done much better (but turning Pu (plus picks) into Skinner, Nylander into Joker, and Guhle + pick into Montour by far and away was better then anything Murray did. Botts has also made mistakes as well (ROR trade, possible Skinner signing, handling of Mitts) but has time to correct/and or still see how HIS picks play out. Murray is/was/and forever will be trash and he did set the Sabres back quite a ways regardless of what Botts does.
- SDSabre

This is correct

yeah McNabb and picks and got nothing out of any of it.
- SabresFaninIndiana

A lot of ppl on here told me to relax, etc when i blasted the McNabb trade
Freaking stupid

GMTM was so brutal,
that he hasn’t even gotten another NHL job
Now that’s really saying something

Taco- what if the new guy that you pay more, scores less goals than expected immediately after arriving in buffalo?

Sheary
Vesey
Johansson
Okposo
Sobotka
Tage t to some degree

For example?

You know what your getting in girgs, whether you like it or not. Controlled environment
- Boss34

That's simply the risk 31 GMs take. It's THEIR job to determine if player x will fit here, well before asking his agent if he'd be interested here. I would rather Botterill try to hit a triple than bunt for a single.

Status quo hasn't done poop here.

The tear down job that Murray did was good, it's what he did with those picks which killed us.

He sold Pegula (or maybe Pegula wanted it) that they could do a quick rebuild.

Obviously you can't

Why have Botts make the same mistake?
- Stripes77

Agree with this. I liked his selling off, I thought he got good value. He squandered a lot of picks after that though.

My main point is even after squandering tons of picks he still had about 10 players in 3 years that made impacts or were used by Botts to acquire players.

In the same amount of drafts Botts guys don’t seem to blow Murray’s out of water. He will need to have some of his late rounds picks to hit too.

His best thing so far is only signing one bad contract. He needs to do a lot this year though or else he’s just as big as a disaster imo

Plus all the picks GMTM traded away and flat out missed on

GMTM was absolutely horrible

We don’t know yet about Botts’ picks
- jdfitz77

That's Mr. RawDeal to you.

I mean the scenario is a little different. quick build is a hard sell when most of your would be core players value is still in limbo.

I.e can't promise you immediate dividends going into a season where Reinhart and Eichel had played a combined 9 games in their NHL careers.

That's not really the case anymore. The core is more or less there and proven. Whats keeping them from the playoffs is either forward depth or an above average goalie. Since the former is usually easier (cheaper) to add I don't think it would be unreasonable for someone to sell a quick turn around on the premise that they add inexpensive forward depth.
- Sabresfan-365

This team is a 2C a top line RWer (so Reinhart can play with that 2 C and Skinner)

an above average goaltender away

Olo Eichel Hoffman??
Skinner ???? Reinhart
??? Asplund Mojo
LOG line

They need to figure out D pairings but that is difficult with 12 guys rotating

and get a stop gap starter (still not sold on Ullmark)

Great.

But I dont want to hear that he was handed nothing when he was handed 5/6ths of a top 6, an Elite 1C, a middle pair and the current starting goalie
- jcragcrumple

Both can be true, contextually.

He was handed a penthouse without the rest of the floors. Or the basement.