For the record, I am not a huge fan of PK Subban. I think he's a good offensive defenseman with some flair. But he IS, no matter what we think of him, an All-Star Norris winning D-Man who is only 30.

Hamonic is a 0 time All-Star who was traded for a 1st and 2 2nds when he was 27.

Hamilton is 0 time All-Star who was traded for a 1st and 2 2nds when he was 22, and then traded again when he was 25 in a package deal for Hanifin and Lindholm (both 5th overall picks).
- Monkeypunk

First of all that’s completely irrelevant.

Subban was a Norris trophy winner and is now 30...that’s not helping your case to say he’s worth what you came up with.

They can probably retain a million or two and trade him for some scraps and maybe a couple picks.

But if they want something valuable in return they have to retain at least 3 million.

It’s a poopty situation...but he’s not a fit and the longer this goes on for the less value he will have. It will only get harder to trade him.

Dermott is still getting #6 minutes with Marincin and Ceci in the lineup...
- Steven_Seagull

Dermott hasn’t improved at all in the past year and a bit.

He’s a legit modern era 3rd pair D...I hope he develops more but he’s gotta start showing improvements sooner than later.

devils made the better offer than the leafs at the draft. the leafs weren't willing to move good enough peices to have nashville retain last year.

whatever the leafs offered nashville in june last year, the offer to the devils should be less now.

devils could wait until the draft. pk has a $6M signing bonus due jul 1. i'm would think they would want to trade him before that hits. at least save $3M on 50% retention. but i also think the leafs should offer even less come draft day.
- Tumbleweed

Again, in fairness to your position and that of Santo's, PK wasn't traded for a particularly strong deal. Nashville needed to shed his salary in order to keep Josi. The trade basically ends up being PK for 3 2nd round picks (2 actual picks, and Steven Santini).

If Jersey is in the same position - where they just want out from under the deal - then they are dealing from a position of weakness and you don't need a strong deal to pry him away. But I do think the deal has to be strengthened considerably the more you want them to retain. That 3 2nd rd pick deal was basically because there was nothing retained. From what I recall of the rumours, I think Toronto's deal was stronger, but involved Nashville retaining $3m.

50% and then money in money out with the remaining 4.5 or whatever it is. Johnsson straight up almost covers it I think, don't know exactly how much he makes. I wouldn't give up anything more than Johnsson. If NJ said no to that I would say no problem.
- BetterCallSaul

I would not give up Johnsson for PK at this point.

Dermott hasn’t improved at all in the past year and a bit.

He’s a legit modern era 3rd pair D...I hope he develops more but he’s gotta start showing improvements sooner than later.
- Santo_44

Injury has pushed back his progress a bit, but I think his growth will be on the offensive side of the puck - so take that for what it is worth as far as the Leafs longer term needs.

Injury has pushed back his progress a bit, but I think his growth will be on the offensive side of the puck - so take that for what it is worth as far as the Leafs longer term needs.
- Woderwick

Neither Keefe or Babcock has ever trusted Dermott with anything above sheltered mins.

If the Leafs wanted to go big on some D I wouldn’t be shocked to see him in a package.

I would not give up Johnsson for PK at this point.
- Archaic

Bold take.

Why?
- Steven_Seagull

JOhnsson and Dermott for Nurse and Kassian? That would be a bad trade for the Leafs for sure.

devils gave up:

Steven Santini - plug
Jeremy Davies (b-prospect)
2 2nds

offensive dman with 9 points so far. his value is lower than it was when the devils picked him up.
- Tumbleweed

It is - I agree. So this statement, along with the one I was making above, is one where it really depends on where Shero is right now. I don't know his headspace.

Does he just want to cut bait and get away from PK Subban or does he want a deal that's going to benefit his team? Cutting PK at his lowest value in his career is probably not going to benefit his team - unless someone is willing to pay for at least some of the perceived value that PK brings. He also has no reason to walk away from PK because he isn't under the same financial push that Nashville was. So I would think you still need to make a hockey deal that proposes value if you want Jersey to eat salary.

I could be wrong, but that's why I think it starts with decent players. You're paying a premium to have them eat $4.5m of cap for 3 years.

Dermott is still getting #6 minutes with Marincin and Ceci in the lineup...
- Steven_Seagull

This year, yeah. He's two years younger than Nurse and he outpaced Nurse's first two seasons production. I think he will be a better player.

I like subban, i don't feel he is what we need.
Nurse, however.

Kovi to the Habs?

Kovi to the Habs?
- Woderwick

bergy can't resist signing 4th liners

Bold take.
- Woderwick

Look at what NJ gave up for him in the summer.

Steven Santini and Jeremy Davies, a second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.

That isnt exactly a load they gave up, and while Nashville didnt retain any salary, thats still a mediocore return and he has been worse then he was in Nashville.

I think we are talking about picks, prospects, and filler IMO at this point.

Bracco, picks, Ceci and something.

Neither Keefe or Babcock has ever trusted Dermott with anything above sheltered mins.

If the Leafs wanted to go big on some D I wouldn’t be shocked to see him in a package.
- Santo_44

Me neither.

I like subban, i don't feel he is what we need.
- Fakepartofme

He's better then Ceci, thats for sure, but I tend to agree.

bergy can't resist signing 4th liners
- Tumbleweed

Is it done?

Canadiens sign Kovalchuk, is Subban going there?

He's better then Ceci, thats for sure, but I tend to agree.
- Archaic

He seems like a guy who thrives under the spotlight.

Kovi to the Habs?
- Woderwick

He said he wanted to sign with a contender

He seems like a guy who thrives under the spotlight.
- Woderwick

This is very true, but he has some gardiner like tendancies on the backend.

Canadiens sign Kovalchuk, is Subban going there?
- Drapz

I wouldnt be surprised to be honest. That would make a lot of sense for them.

He said he wanted to sign with a contender
- Archaic

They probably all said No Thanks.

Sure - the key part is value. But Timashov, a 2nd, Bracco . . . that's not the impetus I'd have to move PK and eat $4.5m of his salary. If I'm Shero and people want me to retain PK's salary, I have no reason to do it unless the offer is giving me a real piece I can use now in a top-6 role and a better building block than a pick in the 55+ range. It's probably got at least a Kapanen or a Johnsson in the deal, and then you try and avoid including Liljegren and go to Bracco, and since you have no 1st, you include a 2nd.

If the deal is Kapanen, Bracco and a 2nd (so we don't pick until around at least 85th), is that worthwhile to either team? Or is it better for Shero to wait for someone else with more prospect capital and a 1st to spare to make an offer for PK where they retain less?
- Monkeypunk

perhaps the 2nd is in 2021 and make the 2nd a continental 1st if the Leafs make it the SCF.

They probably all said No Thanks.
- BetterCallSaul

BEst team he could sign with was Montreal. They then flip him to NJ