It really wasn't. It lead to Dan Bylsma believing he was the second coming of Scotty Bowman. Followed by mostly embarrassing early exits from the playoffs.
- madmike71

I don’t know. They would at least go down swinging with Bylsma. Last years loss to the the Islanders and pretty much every loss of the regular season under Sullivan is embarrassing as shi t. It’s either win or lay down and die under him.

I would hope the left side is better than our extra Dmen. Point is Schultz will be back and our right side is locked up. Even with Dumo back are we trusting Petterson? JJ has been decent but are we fully trusting that too? So you would add a RD who could possibly sit on the bench while the left side struggles?
- 668710

I don't think Schultz is scheduled back until closer to the deadline. Dumo's possible in three weeks.

Yes, I am okay with the left side of Dumo, JJ and Petterson, with Riikola as the seventh.

If we add a RD then Schultz is expendable. If we don't add, then I am okay with Schultz getting a limited role. Marino is the better option, but overexposure is a concern. Letang getting 28 minutes last night with a game this afternoon is okay. Marino getting 22 last night is too much. I think it showed in his play.

Here is an article on him.

https://lastwordonhockey....ckiest-player-in-the-nhl/


He may need a change of scenery to excel. I feel Galchenyuk is the same way. I think both players could be a good swap.
- 123Kid

IF the Penguins are able to maintain this style of play not just this year, but next, they can afford to have one or two players who are poor defensively while still executing their game, i.e. JJ and Chucky. The issue with a forward who's terrible defensively is when they aren't producing, because then they are just completely useless, i.e. Chucky.

If AA is able to come in and produce, the Pens can make up for his defensive issues. Galchenyuk would have be fine here if he could actually score because they can obviously still play well despite his defensive issues on the ice.

For the right price I'd be totally fine with AA, but if he's looking to be a $4M to $5M player then no thanks. Jboyd's jokes aside, I do love his speed and his ability score, but he needs to show that ability a little more consistently.

Random personal observation on Eye Test vs. Advanced Stats...

I think a lot of us were on the same page last night as far as feeling the Pens looked out-of-sorts for most of the game. Tons of defensive miscues, errant passes and turnovers. However, when you look at the fancy stats the Pens pretty much dominated this game.

I wish naturalstattrick tracked turnovers.
- Rinosaur

They do, not by team but by player in the standard category under each game. Giveaways and Takeaways.

To clarify, I don't see JR shopping away our prospects for a rental type player so I think Kreider would be out. I think Galchenyuk, Bjugstad, our picks, and Schultz & Simon (to some extent for each player). May be our players to be shopped.

I think AA, Saad, Baertschi, or even Sam Bennett would be players JR would look towards. Saad is probably the only player who doesn't need a change of scenery to be a success this season.


I do think JR is looking at the low price high reward type players and I think most of these players would meet this criteria.

I think right now I'd just call the Blueger line the 3rd line.

McCann-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kahun-Malkin-Rust
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Galch-Bjugstad-Simon

That's about the best I can make with what we have. Ideally, they add some top 6 guys and push enough talent onto that 4th line that it looks like a 3rd line, but the Blueger line has handled that role well all year. Other than a better version of Bjugstad that I still think is possible, that's our best 9 forwards right now.
- Tojo.

Listening to one of the talk shows on the fan yesterday, they were talking to Bill Lindsey from the Panthers. He said Bjugstad played right wing for them last year and was an excellent fore checker. I think he is being misused at center. I have listened to Lindsey on the NHL Network and think he is biased against the Pens. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.

They do, not by team but by player in the standard category under each game. Giveaways and Takeaways.
- j.boyd919

Ok cool, thanks. I just looked that up and I honestly don't think they're accurate. Marino definitely turned it over one or two times and has zero giveaways, Letang had more than one and is only credited with one, and same with Pettersson.

Here is an article on him.

https://lastwordonhockey....ckiest-player-in-the-nhl/


He may need a change of scenery to excel. I feel Galchenyuk is the same way. I think both players could be a good swap.
- 123Kid

PDO is a culmination of shooting percentage and on ice save percentage. While his PDO may be ridiculously low this season... if you look past that... his shot attempts for/against have been horrid his entire career. So even if he was getting better save percentage from his goalies while he's off ice, his team is still allowing more shots against than shots for, which continues to lend toward the atrocious defense I previously mentioned. His PDO has been around 100 (which is what you want to see) the first 5 years of his career, but his underlying numbers his first 5 years were not very good either.



This ain't PDO related. This is, I'm bad at defense.

Ok cool, thanks. I just looked that up and I honestly don't think they're accurate. Marino definitely turned it over one or two times and has zero giveaways, Letang had more than one and is only credited with one, and same with Pettersson.
- Rinosaur

They're based off of the NHL's giveaway/takeaways that they log during each game. If the in-house scorekeepers log it, NST logs it.

Chucky's ES TOI was 7:27 last night according natural. They need to move him ASAP. You don't pay a player just under $5M to play less than 10 minutes a game, especially when there are so many voids to be filled.

For how he's being used they're getting better value and results by playing someone like Lafferty. However they can dump him for the space, they should.

Lest anyone think I don't give credit where credit is due, I will repeat what I said regarding JJ last night: He's the reason they got that tying goal. First he made a good play to keep the play alive in the zone and then getting that shot on net.

I don’t know. They would at least go down swinging with Bylsma. Last years loss to the the Islanders and pretty much every loss of the regular season under Sullivan is embarrassing as shi t. It’s either win or lay down and die under him.
- Grinder47

Really? I thought they went down repeatedly in embarrassing fashion under Bylsma. The Habs. The Flyers. The Rags. The B's (should have lost in the first round to the Isle that season), and Tampa (with no Sid or Geno while up 3-1). None of those teams beat the Pens with muscle. They exploited a joke of a coach who failed miserably with strategic adjustments.

Really? I thought they went down repeatedly in embarrassing fashion under Bylsma. The Habs. The Flyers. The Rags. The B's (should have lost in the first round to the Isle that season), and Tampa (with no Sid or Geno while up 3-1). None of those teams beat the Pens with muscle. They exploited a joke of a coach who failed miserably with strategic adjustments.
- madmike71

You mean any adjustments.. complete opposite of sully that way.

You mean any adjustments.. complete opposite of sully that way.
- 10inchTerror

Bylsma's idea of adjustments was line juggling. He caught lightning in a bottle with his initial stint as head coach. It became abundantly clear that he was trying to put a square peg in a round hole with this team. He took a team based on skill and speed, and tried to make them a dump'n'chase team; he never deviated from that plan.

He had no tactical ability.

{AA} is a gong show and makes Phil look like a Selke candidate if you're looking for hard working 2-way players.
- j.boyd919

As we know Phil!!'s Selke game pretty well: Interesting question is how many team effect/correlation is in that numbers (ARI with superb goal tending and solid defensive play vs. DET youknowwhat)...

Bylsma's idea of adjustments was line juggling. He caught lightning in a bottle with his initial stint as head coach. It became abundantly clear that he was trying to put a square peg in a round hole with this team. He took a team based on skill and speed, and tried to make them a dump'n'chase team; he never deviated from that plan.
- Rinosaur

It was definitely that although I didn't view them as dump and chase. I always felt he inherited a highly structured team with a couple of young superstars and became enamored with nothing but the offensive side of the puck. After Disco installed his own system, they had troubles keeping the puck out of their own net. Credit where credit is due to Sullivan.... He demands they play a fast, responsible 200' game. This team has a very 15/16 vibe to it. If they ever get healthy they're going to be a serious contender.

Really? I thought they went down repeatedly in embarrassing fashion under Bylsma. The Habs. The Flyers. The Rags. The B's (should have lost in the first round to the Isle that season), and Tampa (with no Sid or Geno while up 3-1). None of those teams beat the Pens with muscle. They exploited a joke of a coach who failed miserably with strategic adjustments.
- madmike71

They did. Grinder just liked the players Bylsma liked. During the height of the Bylsma Era the main criticisms were a country club mentality where guys were just going through the motion and there was no fire (probably because bad players had like 100% job security). It also wasn’t like we were a particularly tough team either so I don’t know why Grinder always says these guys have heart. I remember likening Taylor Pyatt and Tanner Glass to castrated oxen on multiple occasions.

Bylsma's idea of adjustments was line juggling. He caught lightning in a bottle with his initial stint as head coach. It became abundantly clear that he was trying to put a square peg in a round hole with this team. He took a team based on skill and speed, and tried to make them a dump'n'chase team; he never deviated from that plan.

He had no tactical ability.
- Rinosaur

Yes to this last comment. Mario and Burkle basically said that after he was dumped. He was so arrogant about his methods, he didn't feel he needed to make appropriate adjustments.

They did. Grinder just liked the players Bylsma liked. During the height of the Bylsma Era the main criticisms were a country club mentality where guys were just going through the motion and there was no fire (probably because bad players had like 100% job security). It also wasn’t like we were a particularly tough team either so I don’t know why Grinder always says these guys have heart. I remember likening Taylor Pyatt and Tanner Glass to castrated oxen on multiple occasions.
- Victoro311

I'm passionate about this subject because I feel they flushed those years down the toilet. I would have sh!t canned Disco after the Flyers debacle.

Tanner Glass is the perfect example. Bylsma gave him a jersey every night. Sullivan would have given him a bus ticket to Wheeling.....where he belonged.

As we know Phil!!'s Selke game pretty well: Interesting question is how many team effect/correlation is in that numbers (ARI with superb goal tending and solid defensive play vs. DET youknowwhat)...
- VeryModernMan

I think you're looking at that the wrong way.

Shots for/Shots againt don't have anything to do with goaltending.
He's below average on primary points.
His estimated shot assists are abysmal.
His IPP (Individual Point Percentage) is sky high, meaning he does all his poop on his own.
His on ice CF% and SH% is abysmal.
His quality of teammate and ice time and TOI vs. Elite are all similar to Phil's.
His expected Goal share is poor which some of it can be related to his low PDO but he is also awful in SC/HD's as well so part of it is attributed to that.

AA is a highlight reel goal player, but outside of those highlight reel goals, his play is terrible. That's why he gets noticed. Ask our resident Red Wings fan Feds, he's been saying the same poop for years when everyone was busting their load over his highlights for the past few years. Some team will pay a premium and those fans are gonna be disappointed.

Addison with 2 primary helpers in the 3rd to get Canada tied 3-3. One of course on the pp.

Really? I thought they went down repeatedly in embarrassing fashion under Bylsma. The Habs. The Flyers. The Rags. The B's (should have lost in the first round to the Isle that season), and Tampa (with no Sid or Geno while up 3-1). None of those teams beat the Pens with muscle. They exploited a joke of a coach who failed miserably with strategic adjustments.
- madmike71

I guess your more concerned with the hockey acumen of the head coach and I’m more concerned about the players representing the logo the right way. Then again, Bylsma won with a less skilled team against a more capable foe. Those teams Sully won with were just better.

Addison with 2 primary helpers in the 3rd to get Canada tied 3-3. One of course on the pp.
- 10inchTerror

THe only time I root against Canada is the world juniors. I like to keep the nhl as Canadian as possible.

I guess your more concerned with the hockey acumen of the head coach and I’m more concerned about the players representing the logo the right way. Then again, Bylsma won with a less skilled team against a more capable foe. Those teams Sully won with were just better.
- Grinder47

Ok lol 🤣. Sid, Geno, Staal and Talbot were the centers. The Staal Cooke Kennedy line was good, Then Guerin Sid Kuni was real good and Fedotenko Geno Sykora line was good too, Dupuis was on the fourth line. Plus Sid and Geno were Young guns tearing it up. Please with that crap. And I didn't even get to the Defense.

Yuck