Pretend he signs an 8yr@ 8m deal. Are those expectations higher or lower than 2OA?
- Lunaion

The expectations will be based on his contract,
like they should
Not his draft status

And no, 8x8 isn’t what elite guys are getting now
So that contract wouldn’t have me expecting “2OA” scoring numbers

Lazar was by far the best player on the ice. Sometimes it just takes time for it to click for a high draft pick. He should be here to stay even when Skinner and Olofsson come back. Is he a UFA at year end?
- turbo044

He's definitely a different player than what he was drafted for. It's taken him a lot of time to redefine himself. Because there's no way Calgary and Ottawa are giving away this version of Lazar.

We're still talking about draft position of certain players, that's really cool and totally important.

Regardless of what u invest in a player,
they are what they are

If anyone still has typical 2OA expectations for Sam, that’s on them
- jdfitz77

He’s no Nolan Patrick.

He’s no Nolan Patrick.
- PrinceChill

He couldn't tie Nico Hischier's skates

The expectations will be based on his contract,
like they should
Not his draft status

And no, 8x8 isn’t what elite guys are getting now
So that contract wouldn’t have me expecting “2OA” scoring numbers
- jdfitz77

There aren't many wingers making that. If you don't consider that elite, it's very close.

Regardless of what u invest in a player,
they are what they are

If anyone still has typical 2OA expectations for Sam, that’s on them
- jdfitz77

We’ll agree to disagree.

Asset management is huge.

If you paid 1.5x the amount of what you paid for your house would you still be happy ? Or would you want the upgrades that come with the additional dollars spent ?

I’m sure everyone would love Girgensons too if we signed him off the street for 700K and didn’t invest the 14th overall pick for him while passing on Tom Wilson, Thomas Hertl, Tuevo Teravavinen, and Andrei Vasilesky.

The 2nd overall pick is a freaking gold mine. Sam is a really good player, no doubt, but the value we could have gotten if we traded the pick or if we took Leon probably supersedes what Reinhart brings to the team.

That doesn’t mean Sam sucks, he will get $7-7.5M in the offseason and I would like him to stick around but I’m not going to apologize or be content when I see multiple forwards from that draft class bringing to their teams what Sam brings to Buffalo.

And we don't think you can use "are" and "our" correctly, but do we sit here and beat it into oblivion like you do about Sam?
- joevthree

Thanks for your input, it helps

Lazar does look like a good move by Botts. Gotta give him credit when credit is due. Girgensons and Larsson are both having nice seasons too and are a value at their contracts.

There’s some ammo for you Botts backers.

We’ll agree to disagree.

Asset management is huge.

If you paid 1.5x the amount of what you paid for your house would you still be happy ? Or would you want the upgrades that come with the additional dollars spent ?

I’m sure everyone would love Girgensons too if we signed him off the street for 700K and didn’t invest the 14th overall pick for him while passing on Tom Wilson, Thomas Hertl, Tuevo Teravavinen, and Andrei Vasilesky.

The 2nd overall pick is a freaking gold mine. Sam is a really good player, no doubt, but the value we could have gotten if we traded the pick or if we took Leon probably supersedes what Reinhart brings to the team.

That doesn’t mean Sam sucks, he will get $7-7.5M in the offseason and I would like him to stick around but I’m not going to apologize or be content when I see multiple forwards from that draft class bringing to their teams what Sam brings to Buffalo.
- Pegullaville

Just an aside, we don’t get Dahlin with Drai.

We’ll agree to disagree.

Asset management is huge.

If you paid 1.5x the amount of what you paid for your house would you still be happy ? Or would you want the upgrades that come with the additional dollars spent ?

I’m sure everyone would love Girgensons too if we signed him off the street for 700K and didn’t invest the 14th overall pick for him while passing on Tom Wilson, Thomas Hertl, Tuevo Teravavinen, and Andrei Vasilesky.

The 2nd overall pick is a freaking gold mine. Sam is a really good player, no doubt, but the value we could have gotten if we traded the pick or if we took Leon probably supersedes what Reinhart brings to the team.

That doesn’t mean Sam sucks, he will get $7-7.5M in the offseason and I would like him to stick around but I’m not going to apologize or be content when I see multiple forwards from that draft class bringing to their teams what Sam brings to Buffalo.
- Pegullaville

I hope you assess Mitts and the rest of Bott’s picks the exact same way. And that this isn’t some TM/JB thing.

Lazar does look like a good move by Botts. Gotta give him credit when credit is due. Girgensons and Larsson are both having nice seasons too and are a value at their contracts.

There’s some ammo for you Botts backers.
- Beethoven

Isn't it Sabres backers, hoping he builds something right

Lazar does look like a good move by Botts. Gotta give him credit when credit is due. Girgensons and Larsson are both having nice seasons too and are a value at their contracts.

There’s some ammo for you Botts backers.
- Beethoven

It’s because it’s not black and white. There will be some good moves some bad, by all gms. It’s about minimizing that not great ones and maximizing the good.

We’ll agree to disagree.

Asset management is huge.

If you paid 1.5x the amount of what you paid for your house would you still be happy ? Or would you want the upgrades that come with the additional dollars spent ?

I’m sure everyone would love Girgensons too if we signed him off the street for 700K and didn’t invest the 14th overall pick for him while passing on Tom Wilson, Thomas Hertl, Tuevo Teravavinen, and Andrei Vasilesky.

The 2nd overall pick is a freaking gold mine. Sam is a really good player, no doubt, but the value we could have gotten if we traded the pick or if we took Leon probably supersedes what Reinhart brings to the team.

That doesn’t mean Sam sucks, he will get $7-7.5M in the offseason and I would like him to stick around but I’m not going to apologize or be content when I see multiple forwards from that draft class bringing to their teams what Sam brings to Buffalo.
- Pegullaville

So are u still upset that Girgs is just a good defensive forward ant not the “2C captain” that many thought?

Sure, it would great if Sam produced like Malkin
But not all 2OAs are equal
It makes no sense to hold him to a standard that u had for him based on 6 years ago

He is who he is

And your house buying analogy makes more sense for contracts, not draft status

There aren't many wingers making that. If you don't consider that elite, it's very close.
- Lunaion

Any elite wingers that are signing new contracts now will get close to 10per, or more even

Any elite wingers that are signing new contracts now will get close to 10per, or more even
- jdfitz77

Lockout's coming

Well here's the question is Rhino a Elite Winger.

I hope you assess Mitts and the rest of Bott’s picks the exact same way. And that this isn’t some TM/JB thing.
- PrinceChill

I have gone on record saying that Mittelstadt may be Botts’ demise. That hurts us more than the mid round picks he moved to try to give this team bottom 6 depth this year and the year prior.

You can’t be patient and build through the draft and not hit on the picks.

He botched Casey’s development to date but there is still time for him to turn it around.

I don’t hold him making a move for a 2C over his head like most do, being patient and making the right move is better then making the wrong move.

Lazar does look like a good move by Botts. Gotta give him credit when credit is due. Girgensons and Larsson are both having nice seasons too and are a value at their contracts.

There’s some ammo for you Botts backers.
- Beethoven

The ammo I’d like the Botts backers to have is a playoff appearance.

Lockout's coming
- Powerslave

Possibly
There’s doesn’t seem to be much talk about it anymore though

I would like Dahlin playing all situations at all points in the game. The fastest way to get better is by doing it. Stop sheltering him.

So are u still upset that Girgs is just a good defensive forward ant not the “2C captain” that many thought?

Sure, it would great if Sam produced like Malkin
But not all 2OAs are equal
It makes no sense to hold him to a standard that u had for him based on 6 years ago

He is who he is

And your house buying analogy makes more sense for contracts, not draft status
- jdfitz77

So the 2nd overall pick is not a more coveted asset than a mid-late round first ?

Id sell the farm for Byfield idk about you.

Well here's the question is Rhino a Elite Winger.
- Buff36

No

He's "merely" good

Well here's the question is Rhino a Elite Winger.
- Buff36

No, he’s not
And even though he was picked 2OA,
that’s ok

He’s still a really good player

We’ll agree to disagree.

Asset management is huge.

If you paid 1.5x the amount of what you paid for your house would you still be happy ? Or would you want the upgrades that come with the additional dollars spent ?

I’m sure everyone would love Girgensons too if we signed him off the street for 700K and didn’t invest the 14th overall pick for him while passing on Tom Wilson, Thomas Hertl, Tuevo Teravavinen, and Andrei Vasilesky.

The 2nd overall pick is a freaking gold mine. Sam is a really good player, no doubt, but the value we could have gotten if we traded the pick or if we took Leon probably supersedes what Reinhart brings to the team.

That doesn’t mean Sam sucks, he will get $7-7.5M in the offseason and I would like him to stick around but I’m not going to apologize or be content when I see multiple forwards from that draft class bringing to their teams what Sam brings to Buffalo.
- Pegullaville

You're right about asset management, of course. But shouldn't we judge the GM who made the pick on those bases, and not the player. Sam didn't pick himself 2OA. He didn't write all the scouting reports rating him as a top-2 or 3 pick. He will be played and paid based on his on-ice performance. So why not judge the player on that basis?

Because of the CBA and cap system, his on-ice worth has always exceeded his salary and cap hit when he's been a Sabre. If Botts does a good job, that will continue to be the case through Sam's next contract with the Sabres.