The question is "Who is the greatest goalscorer of all time?"

Not

"Who scored the most goals?"
- BINGO!

Yes.

But saying a player from 25yrs ago placed into todays game "would suck" does not answer the question either. If Gretz was born 20 years ago, he'd be leading the League in points and possibly goals as well.

But enough for fantasy/science-fiction... let's stick to facts
Gretz had 9x50+ goal seasons and another 4x40+ goal seaons. Ovi had 8x50+ & 2x40+, but never broke 65, and did that only once.

The 50 in 50 games remarks are terrible, different era's. Today's goalies are bigger better and have bigger equipment, they also dont stand up like they used to being mostly hybrid keepers. Also today's game has better systems and players that as a whole are way bigger faster and stronger as well as more skilled from top to bottom. Imagine what ovie would do if he played in the 80s with the same style he plays now.

Curly Neil.
- Atomic Wedgie

We'll played sir. We'll played.

Yes.

But saying a player from 25yrs ago placed into todays game "would suck" does not answer the question either. If Gretz was born 20 years ago, he'd be leading the League in points and possibly goals as well.

But enough for fantasy/science-fiction... let's stick to facts
Gretz had 9x50+ goal seasons and another 4x40+ goal seaons. Ovi had 8x50+ & 2x40+, but never broke 65, and did that only once.
- Nasty_Duck

right, but Wayne did that against goaltenders who were consistently terrible. Those same shots don't go in today. Ovies shots ALL go in when Wayne played.

Those numbers are great, but they don't even tell half the story when you consider the dramatic difference between competitors.

It's like making the outfield 100 feet further away today and calling all the home runs the same.

The 50 in 50 games remarks are terrible, different era's. Today's goalies are bigger better and have bigger equipment, they also dont stand up like they used to being mostly hybrid keepers. Also today's game has better systems and players that as a whole are way bigger faster and stronger as well as more skilled from top to bottom. Imagine what ovie would do if he played in the 80s with the same style he plays now.
- Upstate_isles

You mean like Cam Neely?
Or Eric Lindros?

Let's see Ovi score all those goals with a wooden stick.

The 50 in 50 games remarks are terrible, different era's. Today's goalies are bigger better and have bigger equipment, they also dont stand up like they used to being mostly hybrid keepers. Also today's game has better systems and players that as a whole are way bigger faster and stronger as well as more skilled from top to bottom. Imagine what ovie would do if he played in the 80s with the same style he plays now.
- Upstate_isles

The 50 goals in 50 games by Richard should not be taken seriously.

It was the 1944-45 season. The NHL was a shell of a league - most guys were overseas. Teams were putting whomever they could find into the lineup.

right, but Wayne did that against goaltenders who were consistently terrible. Those same shots don't go in today. Ovies shots ALL go in when Wayne played.

Those numbers are great, but they don't even tell half the story when you consider the dramatic difference between competitors.

It's like making the outfield 100 feet further away today and calling all the home runs the same.
- BINGO!

Exactly the stand up style goalie would be killed by the power play one timer

Exactly the stand up style goalie would be killed by the power play one timer
- Upstate_isles

Hell it was killed by all the garbage shots that were used when it was popular too.

You mean like Cam Neely?
Or Eric Lindros?

Let's see Ovi score all those goals with a wooden stick.
- Nasty_Duck

Jesus those guys are hall of Famer and so is ovie and he has a better shot than either of them dreamed of having . He is a machine the best scorer ever

We'll played sir. We'll played.
- Nasty_Duck

But who is the best Harlem Globetrotter of all time?

You mean like Cam Neely?
Or Eric Lindros?

Let's see Ovi score all those goals with a wooden stick.
- Nasty_Duck

Give OV a wooden stick and the same competition those guys faced and he'd absolutely blow them out of the water.

But who is the best Harlem Globetrotter of all time?
- Atomic Wedgie

My money is on Wilt.

My money is on Wilt.
- Nasty_Duck

Ding ding ding - we have a winner!

99% of people don't know he played for them, and 95% of people don't believe you when you tell them.

Give OV a wooden stick and the same competition those guys faced and he'd absolutely blow them out of the water.
- BINGO!

Try giving this guy a composite stick:

Try giving this guy a composite stick:


- Atomic Wedgie

I loved the stories about goalies vacating the net when he wound up...

Try giving this guy a composite stick:


- Atomic Wedgie

I'm glad someone has raised the "farmer strong" angle.

I loved the stories about goalies vacating the net when he wound up...
- Nasty_Duck

My dad is fond of telling about how there was an unwritten rule - if a goalie took a good one in the face, the other team would keep the shots low for the rest of the game.

I wonder if my kids actually believe me when I tell them goalies played without masks.

Wayne frickin Gretzky
- BlackhawkMike

Eff Mickey Mouse

The argument that Ovi is better than Gretzky/Lemieux/Bossy because players today are much better is really not the point. Guys who were great 40 years ago would be great today if they came up through the system today. They'd be fitter, faster, with better equipment, playing on better ice, with more open play and more protection by refs, etc.. The point is watching the guys play within their respective eras. Or is some 3rd liner in 2060 going to be better than Ovi?

The argument that Ovi is better than Gretzky/Lemieux/Bossy because players today are much better is really not the point. Guys who were great 40 years ago would be great today if they came up through the system today. They'd be fitter, faster, with better equipment, playing on better ice, with more open play and more protection by refs, etc.. The point is watching the guys play within their respective eras. Or is some 3rd liner in 2060 going to be better than Ovi?
- doublechili

yeah probably that's how these things tend to work.

Bossy.

Ovi's accomplishments are great and he's tops in this era and deserves serious consideration in the all-time conversation. However, can you be called the greatest pure goal scorer ever if a kinda large % of your goals are scored from the same spot in the same way?
- doublechili

Yes - your so dominate, people know what your going to do and still can't stop it.

It's like Tom Brady hitting his slot reciever or a Randy Johnson fastball.

Try giving this guy a composite stick:


- Atomic Wedgie

Okay. Let's see it. I suspect it'll be about the same on account of goalies not really stopping pucks well when he played anyway.

Brett Lindros though

Eklund: Buzz Debate: The Greatest Goal Scorer EVER? Buzz@1
- Eklund

NO.

-beef?-