Nice piece by O’Conner, interviewing Flahr concerning top 20 Flyers prospects.

Mildly surprising: #2 Pick Ginning doesn’t make the list despite being good enough to captain the Swedish WJC team.

Can possibly make the team out of camp next year: Frost and Friedman, no surprise there. Rubtsov and Kase, bottom six mix. Allison and Laczynski, assuming they get signed and stay healthy. The talent is apparently there.

Bottom line. Lots of organizational depth with the prospects. Star prospects? Not so much.

Nice piece by O’Conner, interviewing Flahr concerning top 20 Flyers prospects.

Mildly surprising: #2 Pick Ginning doesn’t make the list despite being good enough to captain the Swedish WJC team.

Can possibly make the team out of camp next year: Frost and Friedman, no surprise there. Rubtsov and Kase, bottom six mix. Allison and Laczynski, assuming they get signed and stay healthy. The talent is apparently there.

Bottom line. Lots of organizational depth with the prospects. Star prospects? Not so much.
- Djapana

He was their sixth defenceman

According to hockey viz Coots defensive impact 5 on 5 was stronger in 18-19 than any other season

I think what makes this season stand out more is that he seems to be playing near the same elite level with worse defenders (i.e. Jake) and also has been nothing short of spectacular on the PK

Edit: stronger than any of the past 3 seasons

Appearantly in 15-16 his defensive impact was at ridiculous levels and probably shouldve deserved the Selke Selke then

Also, I know it's just one site but IIRC evolving hockey also seemed to think he had strong defensive impacts last season
- bulet13

Overall in the 18-19 season, Couturier was average at best defensively. He had his poorest season on the defensive side since entering into the league. He was very below par overall defensively in 18/19.

Overall in the 18-19 season, Couturier was average at best defensively. He had his poorest season on the defensive side since entering into the league. He was very below par overall defensively in 18/19.
- MJL

I'm sorry I just disagree whole heartedly with this assessment. Do not confuse the goalies inability to stop pucks with a players defensive ability

Not gonna argue with you over this since it's pointless. It's in the past and you're entitled to your opinion. We clearly value different metrics in player evaluation so I cant imagine one of us ever convincing the other. I appreciate your view point however even so I disagree

I'm sorry I just disagree whole heartedly with this assessment. Do not confuse the goalies inability to stop pucks with a players defensive ability

Not gonna argue with you over this since it's pointless. It's in the past and you're entitled to your opinion. We clearly value different metrics in player evaluation so I cant imagine one of us ever convincing the other. I appreciate your view point however even so I disagree
- bulet13

The problem is all you look at are metrics and you don't know how to properly use them. There are no stats that can accurately assess an individual player. When you're talking about a players defensive play, you're just not talking about 5 on 5 play.

Your comment about confusing a goalies inability to stop the puck with a players defensive ability is silly. The best way to accurately assess a player is to watch him play if you know what you're looking at.

He was their sixth defenceman
- bulet13

Yes, I guess he was made captain for his “intangibles” rather than his play. I don’t think we need another one of those.

Name one other player who had the face-eye coordination skill to properly block a puck with his eyeball.
- jmatchett383

Who was the guy that got a slapper in the "junk". Was it Patrick Thoreson? Some reason Raffl comes to mind too

The problem is all you look at are metrics and you don't know how to properly use them. There are no stats that can accurately assess an individual player. When you're talking about a players defensive play, you're just not talking about 5 on 5 play.

Your comment about confusing a goalies inability to stop the puck with a players defensive ability is silly. The best way to accurately assess a player is to watch him play if you know what you're looking at.
- MJL

This is the same old argument that people who are not interested in stats use against people who use stats as a major evaluation metric.

I watch the games - as many as I can. I cant watch every game nor focus on every player in every game. I use statistics to help fill in the gaps. From my viewing, his defensive ability did not randomly falter last year and was as strong as ever. The difference was the goaltending was in absolute shambles and stoppable shots went through.

I will also not accept your backhanded insults that I dont understand what I am watching. I have no reason to value your eyes more than mine, nor trust that you know more about hockey than those that also build models.

That's all I will say in the matter. Not going to spend any more of my day arguing about how good Coots was last year

After all of his anti-Flyers remarks, i.e. "It's not a rivalry because the Flyers can't compete with them," I hope he felt super uncomfortable and awkward.
- jmatchett383

Because he was so uncomfortable, it made me uncomfortable so whenever he spoke after awhile, I just looked at my phone. I actually never heard him so any of that.

Who was the guy that got a slapper in the "junk". Was it Patrick Thoreson? Some reason Raffl comes to mind too
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Yep that was him. There was also a guy from Montreal that Chris Therien hit with a slapper to the guys throat. He ultimately had to retire because the shot damaged his airway that much he couldn't get enough oxygen into his lungs going forward.

According to hockey viz Coots defensive impact 5 on 5 was stronger in 18-19 than any other season

I think what makes this season stand out more is that he seems to be playing near the same elite level with worse defenders (i.e. Jake) and also has been nothing short of spectacular on the PK

Edit: stronger than any of the past 3 seasons

Appearantly in 15-16 his defensive impact was at ridiculous levels and probably shouldve deserved the Selke Selke then

Also, I know it's just one site but IIRC evolving hockey also seemed to think he had strong defensive impacts last season
- bulet13

When I say within the past couple seasons his defensive play has lacked, I didn’t mean he was trash or terrible. His defensive play wasn’t as impactful. You said it yourself, in 2015-16 his defensive play was off the charts, so in my opinion he wasn’t always meeting his own standard, which is still really pretty good. Let’s keep in mind a couple of things. Certain players will get credit in certain calories by name also. Sean Couturier has been one of the very best defensive centers since he entered the league. The next thing is, a defensive center that starts posting great offensive numbers will overshadow any defensive mistakes.

I'm confused - do people on this board not think Coots was amazing last year defensively even so the team overall struggled?
- bulet13

I know not many like the plus/minus stat but in this case, I think it’s relevant.

During the 2017/18 season, Couturier had 76 points and was a plus 34. That’s pretty outstanding.

However, during the 2018/19 season Couturier had 76 points also but a plus 2.

That’s a big drop off.

Yep that was him. There was also a guy from Montreal that Chris Therien hit with a slapper to the guys throat. He ultimately had to retire because the shot damaged his airway that much he couldn't get enough oxygen into his lungs going forward.
- hockeylover

Trent McCleary

I know not many like the plus/minus stat but in this case, I think it’s relevant.

During the 2017/18 season, Couturier had 76 points and was a plus 34. That’s pretty outstanding.

However, during the 2018/19 season Couturier had 76 points also but a plus 2.

That’s a big drop off.
- SuperSchennBros

You probably know how I feel about +/- so I wont touch on that

In regards to your post before it, that's a totally fair argument and if we use 15-16 as a base for Coots than all following seasons can look poor. I was just confused because a lot of the stat guys have Coots individual defensive impact as being better in 18-19 than 17-18 so I'm curious as to why a few of yall seem to think the opposite.

In my honest opinion, I think Coots has been really good all 3 of the past seasons and deciding in which ones he was better or worse is an exercise in nitpicking. I wonder if 17-18 is seen as a better defensive year because he took such a huge offensive step forward and when that step forward didnt happen the following year, fans went to breaking down his defense

According to hockey viz Coots defensive impact 5 on 5 was stronger in 18-19 than any other season

I think what makes this season stand out more is that he seems to be playing near the same elite level with worse defenders (i.e. Jake) and also has been nothing short of spectacular on the PK

Edit: stronger than any of the past 3 seasons

Appearantly in 15-16 his defensive impact was at ridiculous levels and probably shouldve deserved the Selke Selke then

Also, I know it's just one site but IIRC evolving hockey also seemed to think he had strong defensive impacts last season
- bulet13

Fun Fact: Four teams have had the Selke Award Winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2006-Brindy
2008-Datsyuk
2013-Toews
2019-O'Reilly

Only two had the MVP winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2001-Sakic
2004-St. Louis

I'm confused - do people on this board not think Coots was amazing last year defensively even so the team overall struggled?
- bulet13

No actual people think that he was "lacking defensively".

Fun Fact: Four teams have had the Selke Award Winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2006-Brindy
2008-Datsyuk
2013-Toews
2019-O'Reilly

Only two had the MVP winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2001-Sakic
2004-St. Louis
- mickel25

Does Bergeron not have a Selke and a Cup or are we talking same season?

I'm confused - do people on this board not think Coots was amazing last year defensively even so the team overall struggled?
- bulet13

His role changed, and he did have a few more notable turnovers/mistakes over the course of the year, but that wasn't enough to cancel out the truckload of good things that he did off-puck.

Even in a 'down' year defensively he's still one of the best in the league.

Does Bergeron not have a Selke and a Cup or are we talking same season?
- SuperSchennBros

Same season.

You probably know how I feel about +/- so I wont touch on that

In regards to your post before it, that's a totally fair argument and if we use 15-16 as a base for Coots than all following seasons can look poor. I was just confused because a lot of the stat guys have Coots individual defensive impact as being better in 18-19 than 17-18 so I'm curious as to why a few of yall seem to think the opposite.

In my honest opinion, I think Coots has been really good all 3 of the past seasons and deciding in which ones he was better or worse is an exercise in nitpicking. I wonder if 17-18 is seen as a better defensive year because he took such a huge offensive step forward and when that step forward didnt happen the following year, fans went to breaking down his defense
- bulet13

I personally review every goal scored against the Flyers for most games to see what happened. There were an alarming number of goals against scored when Couturier was on the ice that he was either primarily responsible for or in a secondary role of responsibility. Especially on the PK. He did not play anywhere near the Selke level that he normally plays at last season. You may not care for +/- but it paints a picture of information and the discrepancy between the two seasons is part of the picture. Combine that with primarily using the eye test and there is no doubt that Couturier by his standards had a poor defensive season in 18/19.

No actual people think that he was "lacking defensively".
- Feanor

Yup

I'm confused - do people on this board not think Coots was amazing last year defensively even so the team overall struggled?
- bulet13

He played above average, which is below average for him.

Fun Fact: Four teams have had the Selke Award Winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2006-Brindy
2008-Datsyuk
2013-Toews
2019-O'Reilly

Only two had the MVP winner and won the Cup since 2000.

2001-Sakic
2004-St. Louis
- mickel25

That's really interesting and telling, thanks for pointing this out!

I'm curious how team defense metrics compare relatively to these Selke/Stanley correlations. (Not asking you to fetch them, just saying it piqued my interest)

He played above average, which is below average for him.
- jmatchett383

I don’t think he played to his own standard defensively last season.

After all of his anti-Flyers remarks, i.e. "It's not a rivalry because the Flyers can't compete with them," I hope he felt super uncomfortable and awkward.
- jmatchett383

He was hilariously dismissive of Flyers playoff chances too, was sorta hoping Jonesy would chime in with something about that