If I had to guess, I would suggest that this has become a sub-conscious bias.

I don't believe the refs or the league are out to get the Leafs. I liken this to the Kadri situation.

He had a couple years where he drew a lot of penalties, as soon as it became noticeable, the refs stopped calling infractions against him. It actually became pretty (frank)ing ridiculous.

This has become similar. Apparently the Leafs are not fighting through enough checks or going to enough ditry areas to draw penalties. Again, it isn't true, and it doesn't pass the eye test. The problem is that it is out there now, and perception becomes reality...
- Aetherial

AKA Gallagher for the past few years

You disputing facts?
- burn

If the facts are that you blamed the refs for losing, no, not at all. Just having a respectful and factual debate with Santo.

Oh and the phantom (frank)ing calls are ridiculous at this point.

You can almost predict at this point exactly when the other team will get a PP.
- Aetherial

that's because we all hate the Leafs...including the league. Too much awesomeness to deal with

If I had to guess, I would suggest that this has become a sub-conscious bias.

I don't believe the refs or the league are out to get the Leafs. I liken this to the Kadri situation.

He had a couple years where he drew a lot of penalties, as soon as it became noticeable, the refs stopped calling infractions against him. It actually became pretty (frank)ing ridiculous.

This has become similar. Apparently the Leafs are not fighting through enough checks or going to enough ditry areas to draw penalties. Again, it isn't true, and it doesn't pass the eye test. The problem is that it is out there now, and perception becomes reality...
- Aetherial

Yes this...I think there is a bias to how teams play and certain players.

Might be harder to make a call when you know you have 50x the amount of eyes on you ready to scrutinize you for it too.

Part of the problem is they are easy to check along the boards. They don't force penalties in those situations. Their cycle game doesn't really exist. They hold on to the puck by ringing it around and moving it aloneg longer routes rather than a tight cycle game that draws penalties.
- aminnes

You have a point. You're talking about perimiter hockey. Empty calories. You have the puck alot but what are you doing with it? Good defensive teams will give an opponent the perimiter. They're defending the high danger scoring areas. It's Barry Trotz hockey 101. So you get long distance bad angle shots. No traffic for the goalie to peer through. Like picking cherries.

However a team which plays with speed like the Leafs do, and has high end skill players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, should still draw alot of penalty calls because they're creating mismatches on the attack Especially in the neutral zone.

They're not always playing on the perimiter. They may end up there most of the time. They're not going to ground and pound like the Caps and Blues do. The Bruins are a finesse team as well. Why do they draw more calls than the Leafs do? Are they attacking the middle of the ice more when they're in the offensive zone?

Or is their #1 line just so dominant that no team can stop them? Thus drawing more penalty calls.

You have a point. You're talking about perimiter hockey. Empty calories. You have the puck alot but what are you doing with it? Good defensive teams will give an opponent the perimiter. They're defending the high danger scoring areas. It's Barry Trotz hockey 101. So you get long distance bad angle shots. No traffic for the goalie to peer through. Like picking cherries.

However a team which plays with speed like the Leafs do, and has high end skill players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, should still draw alot of penalty calls because they're creating mismatches on the attack Especially in the neutral zone.

They're not always playing on the perimiter. They may end up there most of the time. They're not going to ground and pound like the Caps and Blues do. The Bruins are a finesse team as well. Why do they draw more calls than the Leafs do? Are they attacking the middle of the ice more when they're in the offensive zone?

Or is their #1 line just so dominant that no team can stop them? Thus drawing more penalty calls.
- gergeswillems

Work ethic is what drives the Bruins, it's not all about talent, they just play so damn hard.

AKA Gallagher for the past few years
- Symba.007

Same thing happened with Larkin. He dove so much his first 3 seasons and embarrassed the refs. Now opponents can basically maul him and nothing will be called. He brought it on himself.

Did you watch the Bruins v Leafs playoff series last season? The 2nd most penalized team in the league vs the least penalized team in the league. The Leafs also had the 2nd least PPOA that season.

Guess who, inexplicably, had more power play opportunities that series?

That is a microcosm of the reffing bias the Leafs routinely face.
- mjones242

I know that was true 2 playoffs ago... was it also true last year?

The narrative around Boston is that they are a veteran team that knows how to walk the line... and that has become a reality so that even when they cross the line, they get the "veteran non-call". "Veteran non-call" was a term I actually heard used by a commentator during last year's playoffs. WTF is that?

The game where Kadri was suspended last year was an embarrassment. I think I heard that crew didn't ref another playoff game.

Of course this was after Kadri got a record suspension, after nothing was done when a Boston player tried to take out his knee.

Work ethic is what drives the Bruins, it's not all about talent, they just play so damn hard.
- Symba.007

I won't argue that.

If the facts are that you blamed the refs for losing, no, not at all.
- fifty__missions

I said the leafs played like poop for far too much of that game. Nice cherry picking though.


The leafs just tied the game and the refs called a phantom call (already proven that the center ref 100feet away blocked by 3 players made the call and not the ref 10feet away with unubsructed view of the play), Buffalo scores GWG off that garbage call..... If you don't think that that affected the game then you are pretty dense.

The 2-0 goal was a blatant hold on lilijgren which cause a turnover and then that guy scored a second later.

2 goals against that clearly should not have counted is a pretty big problem

AKA Gallagher for the past few years
- Symba.007

I don't watch enough Habs games to say, but I could easily believe this.

On the other hand, the league is now afraid to suspend Marchand because the escalation would have to be so high, so as long as he doesn't spear someone in the face, it's all about his veteran saavy.

You have a point. You're talking about perimiter hockey. Empty calories. You have the puck alot but what are you doing with it? Good defensive teams will give an opponent the perimiter. They're defending the high danger scoring areas. It's Barry Trotz hockey 101. So you get long distance bad angle shots. No traffic for the goalie to peer through. Like picking cherries.

However a team which plays with speed like the Leafs do, and has high end skill players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, should still draw alot of penalty calls because they're creating mismatches on the attack Especially in the neutral zone.

They're not always playing on the perimiter. They may end up there most of the time. They're not going to ground and pound like the Caps and Blues do. The Bruins are a finesse team as well. Why do they draw more calls than the Leafs do? Are they attacking the middle of the ice more when they're in the offensive zone?

Or is their #1 line just so dominant that no team can stop them? Thus drawing more penalty calls.
- gergeswillems

I'm not talking about the m,middle, or the front of the net. I'm talking about cycling the puck in the corners. The Leafs generally rarely do this. They whip it around thew outside and go for the rebound or tip. It's not a ba strategy per say, but it doesn't draw penalties.

Having said that I do see teams taking liberties with the Leafs with no calls, but the club decided to go the 'rely on the refs' route as soon as Shanny took over. It took them 4 years to get a face puncher in the lineup and they sent many of the other tough players away. NEVER rely on the league, it's flawed. Protect yourself and deal with your issues.

"2nd and 3rd were directly attributed to garbage reffing.

Leafs too concerned with poopty call that put them down 3-2,"

-Burn

Btw Santo, can you please explain to me how the above post does not 'directly' blame the refs for the loss?
- fifty__missions

He showed his frustration towards a really bad call that started the 3 goals in 2 mins...Which is 100% true. It is exactly what happened.

I highly highly doubt Burn thought the Leafs played a good game up to that point and he even said Andersen carried the Leafs up until it was 2-1.

Freddy put the team on his back to make it 2-2. Then the Refs made a horrible call to help the Sabres make it 3-2.

Your problem here is thinking people are solely putting the blame on the refs for that loss. It is completely untrue I don't see anyone doing that.

Just you getting triggered when someone shows frustration towards the refs starting the 3 goals in 2 mins.

I don't watch enough Habs games to say, but I could easily believe this.

On the other hand, the league is now afraid to suspend Marchand because the escalation would have to be so high, so as long as he doesn't spear someone in the face, it's all about his veteran saavy.
- Aetherial

Marchand is a spineless dirtbag who gets away with way too much. There's no accountability so he'll keep being the same cowardly weasel he is.

Work ethic is what drives the Bruins, it's not all about talent, they just play so damn hard.
- Symba.007

This is true.

Also, in last year's playoffs, their goaltending was extremely steady. Rask was always in position and made pretty much no mistakes.

Their special teams were also much better than everyone else's, particularly the Leafs.

I thought Boston deserved the cup last spring. They earned it. They just ran out of gas at the end and ran into a team that was getting the same "veteran non-calls".

I'm not talking about the m,middle, or the front of the net. I'm talking about cycling the puck in the corners. The Leafs generally rarely do this. They whip it around thew outside and go for the rebound or tip. It's not a ba strategy per say, but it doesn't draw penalties.

Having said that I do see teams taking liberties with the Leafs with no calls, but the club decided to go the 'rely on the refs' route as soon as Shanny took over. It took them 4 years to get a face puncher in the lineup and they sent many of the other tough players away. NEVER rely on the league, it's flawed. Protect yourself and deal with your issues.
- aminnes

Leafs could use some more smash to compliment their dash but Dubas doesn't believe in that. He's going to keep believing his team can out skill you to victory. Kill you with his power play. I don't agree with it but that's what he's doing. Even Sid Crosby mucks for pucks in the corners scoring ugly goals. I don't believe the Leafs big guns can play this way in the playoffs. So the same result will keep happening.

Part of the problem is they are easy to check along the boards. They don't force penalties in those situations. Their cycle game doesn't really exist. They hold on to the puck by ringing it around and moving it aloneg longer routes rather than a tight cycle game that draws penalties.
- aminnes

What? So getting tackled on a breakaway isn't as much of a penalty as a hold on cycle?


If anything using your speed and skill in the open ice and getting fouled makes it more blatant and easier to call penalty against.

The league is deliberately ignoring penalties in so as to allow weaker teams to play defensively and commit penalties without calls so that they can artificially stay relevant for longer to keep interest in the poopty team city.


The league needs to call the rulebook the way it should be. A penalty for one team is a penalty for any other team. A penalty in the first is a penalty late in a tied game. The rulebook does not say to change how you call penalties based on the score.

I said the leafs played like poop for far too much of that game. Nice cherry picking though.


The leafs just tied the game and the refs called a phantom call (already proven that the center ref 100feet away blocked by 3 players made the call and not the ref 10feet away with unubsructed view of the play), Buffalo scores GWG off that garbage call..... If you don't think that that affected the game then you are pretty dense.

The 2-0 goal was a blatant hold on lilijgren which cause a turnover and then that guy scored a second later.

2 goals against that clearly should not have counted is a pretty big problem
- burn

Ok fair enough.

I thought the Leafs were shiite and I have no interest in splitting hairs or rationalizing another shiity effort over officiating when they don't even show up, as their own coach put it. But, hey, if that makes me dense in your eyes, I'm cool with that too. Always consider the source.

He showed his frustration towards a really bad call that started the 3 goals in 2 mins...Which is 100% true. It is exactly what happened.

I highly highly doubt Burn thought the Leafs played a good game up to that point and he even said Andersen carried the Leafs up until it was 2-1.

Freddy put the team on his back to make it 2-2. Then the Refs made a horrible call to help the Sabres make it 3-2.

Your problem here is thinking people are solely putting the blame on the refs for that loss. It is completely untrue I don't see anyone doing that.

Just you getting triggered when someone shows frustration towards the refs starting the 3 goals in 2 mins.
- Santo_44

People ignore when Leafs fan admit that the team basically poop the bed in the 3rd.

I think we all know that the onus is still on the Leafs. They got a bad call, got a bad break, but they need to sack-up and go out and get it back. There was plenty of time yesterday to recover from a bad call. They turned it into a mess.

This is true.

Also, in last year's playoffs, their goaltending was extremely steady. Rask was always in position and made pretty much no mistakes.

Their special teams were also much better than everyone else's, particularly the Leafs.

I thought Boston deserved the cup last spring. They earned it. They just ran out of gas at the end and ran into a team that was getting the same "veteran non-calls".
- Aetherial

I disagree. I think the Blues deserved to win that Cup. I admired how they were able to smash mouth their way to victory. I thought they'd run out of steam. They didn't.

If the facts are that you blamed the refs for losing, no, not at all.
- fifty__missions

No one blames the refs for the loss. But some do blame the opportunity phantom to stop a possible come back call. It wouldn't of looked as obvious if one of the 3 or 4 actual infractions against the Leafs just before that weren't blindly missed.....

Leafs could use some more smash to compliment their dash but Dubas doesn't believe in that. He's going to keep believing his team can out skill you to victory. Kill you with his power play. I don't agree with it but that's what he's doing. Even Sid Crosby mucks for pucks in the corners scoring ugly goals. I don't believe the Leafs big guns can play this way in the playoffs. So the same result will keep happening.
- gergeswillems

There are 2 problems with Dubas philosophy. It relies on the refs making calls against the other team and it relies on their PP being consistently excellent.

Neither has happened. The Leafs need to stop taking short cuts and realize that playing hard at both ends of the ice is necessary to win.

I disagree. I think the Blues deserved to win that Cup. I admired how they were able to smash mouth their way to victory. I thought they'd run out of steam. They didn't.
- gergeswillems

I still think Boston was the better team

People ignore when Leafs fan admit that the team basically poop the bed in the 3rd.

I think we all know that the onus is still on the Leafs. They got a bad call, got a bad break, but they need to sack-up and go out and get it back. There was plenty of time yesterday to recover from a bad call. They turned it into a mess.



- Aetherial

They didn't respond well and I am not doubting that.

Andersen is the one who should be pissed at the refs. He was the reason the game was tied and a horrible (frank)ed him.

Every team has games they don't deserve to win and Freddy was guiding his team into that direction until the 3-2 goal which should not of been called.

The Leafs didn't deserve to win anyways but every team in the league wins games they didn't deserve to win.

Vaselevsky doesn't have a .930 saver percentage because TB scores a bunch.

I still think Boston was the better team
- Aetherial

I'm in the old school of thought that when a team wins a best of 7 series, they should be considered the better team.