You're not wrong. Bear in mind that a lot of people in this forum are quick to point fingers at Andersen or Hutchinson for the Leafs' current predicament. Bobrobsky is having a nightmare of a season in Florida. If he was even league average - which is still below par for his expectations - Florida would be ahead of us by a number of points.

The Leafs have underachieved - by anywhere from 8 - 16 points depending on the measure you use.
- Monkeypunk

The thing is, you can't isolate any one thing and draw a direct conclusion by considering how it may have changed.

We don't know how the Leafs would have played if other teams were seriously challenging in our division. The one example we have is that they were in serious danger of digging too deep a hole when Keefe took over and they went on a run.

Play over the last couple weeks suggests that they wouldn't have fared any better under pressure, but that time period also coincided with Andersen injured/sucking, and Rielly out of the lineup.

I think what yesterday showed us is that they have the talent to be better than they are, but have not put in the effort this season. They needed to be embarassed by the Sabres and Pens to actually motivate themselves to play.

Safe to say they are going nowhere until they learn that that kind of effort is always required.

- Scabeh

That's a good reminder to Leaf fans to not trade young talents like Nylander. That Damphouse trade was horrible.

That's a good reminder to Leaf fans to not trade young talents like Nylander. That Damphouse trade was horrible.
- RogerRoeper

I thought it was great.

Well mostly because the Oilers did the same mistake a year later.

Based on the other feedback I've received, I clearly know even less about their private lives than I thought - although I've been sufficiently educated in the last hour.
- Monkeypunk

I don’t know much either man.

It’s a small world though. I know a player who used to play with Barrie, JT and Kadri. He is good buddies with Barrie and since he came back to TO they hangout from time to time.

We had a good convo back in the fall at a party and it’s funny to hear gossip. These guys are nothing like they seem to be in the media

Well maybe JT....that guy has nothing to hide.

We're told it's work-ethic but the truth is goaltending has been our biggest issue. You guys just repeat that media nonsense like sheep. That's how Freddy gets too much credit.
- RogerRoeper

Like sheep eh? If you watched last nights game and the games from the last couple weeks there was a pretty glaring difference. The ole give a poop meter was clearly at a high yesterday. Not to mention it’s the players themselves talking about how their work ethic wasn’t there.... so there’s that.

I don’t know much either man.

It’s a small world though. I know a player who used to play with Barrie, JT and Kadri. He is good buddies with Barrie and since he came back to TO they hangout from time to time.

We had a good convo back in the fall at a party and it’s funny to hear gossip. These guys are nothing like they seem to be in the media

Well maybe JT....that guy has nothing to hide.
- Santo_44

That's what a guy who has plenty to hide wants you to think.

Well not giving an effort results in other teams getting better scoring chances and leaving our goalie out to dry.

So the players are just as guilty as the "bad goaltending".

The team actually played a solid game in front of Freddy for once and look what happened.

Freddy does still need to be better though there is no denying that.
- LeafGuy89

Conversely. Freddy has a solid penalty kill at the end of the first and the Leafs were suddenly a different team in the second.

Obviously there is cause and effect both ways.

We're told it's work-ethic but the truth is goaltending has been our biggest issue. You guys just repeat that media nonsense like sheep. That's how Freddy gets too much credit.
- RogerRoeper

this isn't pee-wee hockey. you can't give nhl players uncovered shots at open nets or time and space to rip an accurate shot.

andersen was fine last night. but that was a team shut-out.

this team will go far if they play like that. if they are inconsistent and leave freddy to do all the work, they will fail; like any other team that does the same.

I thought it was great.

Well mostly because the Oilers did the same mistake a year later.
- Scabeh

And it resulted in a cup.

I don’t know much either man.

It’s a small world though. I know a player who used to play with Barrie, JT and Kadri. He is good buddies with Barrie and since he came back to TO they hangout from time to time.

We had a good convo back in the fall at a party and it’s funny to hear gossip. These guys are nothing like they seem to be in the media

Well maybe JT....that guy has nothing to hide.
- Santo_44

Many years ago, was at a huge bachelor party for a prominent (at the time) NHL goalie.

Great fun at the time, but looking back, It was really not a pretty sight.

Like sheep eh? If you watched last nights game and the games from the last couple weeks there was a pretty glaring difference. The ole give a poop meter was clearly at a high yesterday. Not to mention it’s the players themselves talking about how their work ethic wasn’t there.... so there’s that.
- GOLEAFS71

you're nuts dude, Roeper knows WAY more than the players in the locker room.

Andersen is the ONLY reason the leafs suck.....everything else that Dubas has done has been brilliant. it's remarkable he hasn't already had the GM of the year trophy named after him.

roeper is right, everything is perfect in leaf land, they're still undoubtedly the best team in the league, nobody comes close to their level of talent, compete.....it's almost not fair to the other teams.

all hail roeper

Leafs Alumni game today👍
Son and I have VIP tix

Vaive
Thomas
Iafrate
Leeman
Krushelnyski
May
Kidd
Valk
Antropov
Reid
Fergus
Butcher
Lumme
Daoust
Podollan

Many hockey cards will be signed👍
- mr.sir

If any of you hockey card collectors need any of these autos......

PM me later

That's what a guy who has plenty to hide wants you to think.



- Scabeh

That’s fair....like Joe from you. He’s gotta stay sober 24/7 so he doesn’t slip up

Are you blind and watching the game with some type of descriptive video?

I don't want to rail on you if you're blind, because then I'd feel bad.

Did you WATCH the game yesterday and did not see the difference between it and most of the other 61 games we've played this year?

They closed gaps, they worked in corners, they won board battles, they covered their guys, and played in the lanes.

Yes, if Freddy allows a goal on the Power Play, they're perhaps fragile enough to let that deflate them and lose the game - but they also didn't allow any cross crease wide open net chances either. Frankly, that penalty kill was still a positional disaster and we're lucky we didn't get scored on.

5 on 5, however, they were as sound and smart and attentive to details as I've seen them be consistently for an entire game all season.
- Monkeypunk

i should have read this post before my last one. i think you nailed it except...

i am beginning to wonder if he is both blind and deaf based on his hawt takes.

Many years ago, was at a huge bachelor party for a prominent (at the time) NHL goalie.

Great fun at the time, but looking back, It was really not a pretty sight.
- Aetherial

NHLers party hard.

Paul Bissonette said it best. “If you can’t play hungover you shouldn’t be in the NHL”

Edit:that might of been Ryan Whitney

this isn't pee-wee hockey. you can't give nhl players uncovered shots at open nets or time and space to rip an accurate shot.

andersen was fine last night. but that was a team shut-out.

this team will go far if they play like that. if they are inconsistent and leave freddy to do all the work, they will fail; like any other team that does the same.
- Tumbleweed

Let's hope at some point they finally understand and accept that THAT is the level of effort required to succeed.

No team has that energy every night, but more nights than not you win by outworking your opponent, not out-talenting them.

Marner seems like a weiny, I can't see him cheating
- matt1337

$1m a month will have all kinds throwing their snatch at him.

You never know

The thing is, you can't isolate any one thing and draw a direct conclusion by considering how it may have changed.

We don't know how the Leafs would have played if other teams were seriously challenging in our division. The one example we have is that they were in serious danger of digging too deep a hole when Keefe took over and they went on a run.

Play over the last couple weeks suggests that they wouldn't have fared any better under pressure, but that time period also coincided with Andersen injured/sucking, and Rielly out of the lineup.

I think what yesterday showed us is that they have the talent to be better than they are, but have not put in the effort this season. They needed to be embarassed by the Sabres and Pens to actually motivate themselves to play.

Safe to say they are going nowhere until they learn that that kind of effort is always required.
- Aetherial

Here's the part that worries me . . and if you'll indulge me, it's a sort of humble brag.

I've always had an exceptional memory and also the ability to learn or absorb information without really paying attention. So in school I could coast and pull down 80s without really even paying attention or reading books, etc.

My dad was so sick of it, he challenged me to actually study for an exam. Write down my study notes, and so on - put in some actual effort. So I did.

I got a 98 on the exam.

I knew I could do it, but coasting was easier and I never studied that hard for another exam.

Moral of the story: I'm really happy with what the Leafs did yesterday, but we need to see a lot more games before we believe they're going to change anything.

And it resulted in a cup.
- RogerRoeper

dubaaaaaaas is the best goes roger the sheep

NHLers party hard.

Paul Bissonette said it best. “If you can’t play hungover you shouldn’t be in the NHL”

Edit:that might of been Ryan Whitney
- Santo_44

steve yzerman about brett hull:

'when you have a shot like his, it can make up for a few extra beers'

but times are changing.

i think it's getting harder every year to party hard. i love the biznasty, but maybe there was a reason he was paul missthenette...

We're told it's work-ethic but the truth is goaltending has been our biggest issue. You guys just repeat that media nonsense like sheep. That's how Freddy gets too much credit.
- RogerRoeper

You should watch the games and stay away from the media.

These last couple weeks it wasn’t the goaltending and it wasn’t the goaltending last night...

I have it taped if you’d like to see the game?

steve yzerman about brett hull:

'when you have a shot like his, it can make up for a few extra beers'

but times are changing.

i think it's getting harder every year to party hard. i love the biznasty, but maybe there was a reason he was paul missthenette...
- Tumbleweed

Oh they still party. Not as much as before it kind of was out of hand a decade ago players would party every night during playoff games.

Video games has kind of been a blessing for coaches

Here's the part that worries me . . and if you'll indulge me, it's a sort of humble brag.

I've always had an exceptional memory and also the ability to learn or absorb information without really paying attention. So in school I could coast and pull down 80s without really even paying attention or reading books, etc.

My dad was so sick of it, he challenged me to actually study for an exam. Write down my study notes, and so on - put in some actual effort. So I did.

I got a 98 on the exam.

I knew I could do it, but coasting was easier and I never studied that hard for another exam.

Moral of the story: I'm really happy with what the Leafs did yesterday, but we need to see a lot more games before we believe they're going to change anything.
- Monkeypunk

nailed it again.

it's easy to do something once.

they need to play like they did out of habit; because they want it. if it's only when keefe tells them, they will be inconsistent.

Oh they still party. Not as much as before it kind of was out of hand a decade ago players would party every night during playoff games.

Video games has kind of been a blessing for coaches
- Santo_44

when the leafs were in AZ, we hung out the hotel so my kids could get some pic/autographs before the game.

there is a dave & busters across the street from their hotel. we were joking we should have gone there the night before to find them.

Did Leafs trade for an actual upgrade on D yet?