Thanks Carol.

Don, you are stupid

White, you are wrong

The CRP might have been introduced because of the Weber/Luongo deals, but it applies to any contract which is front loaded.
- 1970vintage

Sorry Vinty, but you are wrong on two parts of Loui being subject to recapture.

The CBA spells out that any Long-Term contracts signed prior to the execution of the 2012 CBA AND is in excess of 6 years in length are subject to recapture. Loui's was 6 years in length and signed in 2016.

They use an example of a standard player contract signed in 2011 to highlight/emphasize the era of contracts that are subject to the issue.

From the CBA, page 265:

For any SPC entered into prior to the execution date of this
Agreement (including any binding Memorandum of Understanding) that has a term in excess of six (6) League Years ("Long-Term Contracts"), the Averaged Amount of such Long-Term Contracts shall be calculated and included in a Club's Averaged Club Salary in accordance with Section 50.5(d)(ii) above so long as the Player is playing or is injured and is being paid pursuant to his SPC.

Interesting take from Dobber Hockey...

Tyler Toffoli for Tyler Madden, Tim Schaller, a second (2020) and a conditional fourth (2022)

A pretty steep price if Toffoli will produce like he has been limited to produce in LA. If he can get back to the 30 goal ways it will be a good deal. Slightly expensive… probably but I am not as high n Madden as others

Sorry Vinty, but you are wrong on two parts of Loui being subject to recapture.

The CBA spells out that any Long-Term contracts signed prior to the execution of the 2012 CBA AND is in excess of 6 years in length are subject to recapture. Loui's was 6 years in length and signed in 2016.

They use an example of a standard player contract signed in 2011 to highlight/emphasize the era of contracts that are subject to the issue.

From the CBA, page 265:
- WhiteLie

First of all, that section says nothing about recapture, or that contracts signed after it are exempt. What it does say is that contracts that were signed under a different set of rules are now subject to the current set of rules.

Interesting take from Dobber Hockey...

Tyler Toffoli for Tyler Madden, Tim Schaller, a second (2020) and a conditional fourth (2022)

A pretty steep price if Toffoli will produce like he has been limited to produce in LA. If he can get back to the 30 goal ways it will be a good deal. Slightly expensive… probably but I am not as high n Madden as others
- VanHockeyGuy

That's fairly bland, isn't that what most have been saying? It's either:
- It'll be worth it if he resigns
- It'll be worth it if he puts up points like he can

He's a 20 goal guy on the 2nd line, where he is destined to play next year, or potentially a 30 goal guy if he plays the majority of a season with Petey

Interesting take from Dobber Hockey...

Tyler Toffoli for Tyler Madden, Tim Schaller, a second (2020) and a conditional fourth (2022)

A pretty steep price if Toffoli will produce like he has been limited to produce in LA. If he can get back to the 30 goal ways it will be a good deal. Slightly expensive… probably but I am not as high n Madden as others
- VanHockeyGuy

Did you catch Burke on the morning show today (or any of the rerun)? Talking about how stupid the prices for player rentals are right now. NY is looking for a 1st round pick, an “A” prospect, a mid round pick and a conditional pick for Kreider. Benning didn’t over pay, that’s the market, but should he have, that’s the question...

First of all, that section says nothing about recapture, or that contracts signed after it are exempt. What it does say is that contracts that were signed under a different set of rules are now subject to the current set of rules.
- 1970vintage

The next page didnt copy, Part (A) defined a "Long-Term Contract", Part (B) below covers recapture:

(B) For any period during which the Player under a Long-Term Contract is no longer playing in the League during the term of that Long-Term Contract by reason of retirement, "defection" from the NHL or otherwise (but not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving Salary pursuant to that Long-Term Contract), an amount attributable to that Player shall nonetheless continue to be included in his Club's Averaged Club Salary as described below.

I'm not copying the rest, but you can check if you still disagree: http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en...12/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

That's fairly bland, isn't that what most have been saying? It's either:
- It'll be worth it if he resigns
- It'll be worth it if he puts up points like he can
- NorthNuck

I found it interesting they didn't value Madden that much either.

Interesting take from Dobber Hockey...

Tyler Toffoli for Tyler Madden, Tim Schaller, a second (2020) and a conditional fourth (2022)

A pretty steep price if Toffoli will produce like he has been limited to produce in LA. If he can get back to the 30 goal ways it will be a good deal. Slightly expensive… probably but I am not as high n Madden as others
- VanHockeyGuy

I found it interesting they didn't value Madden that much either.
- VanHockeyGuy

Personally I see him(if he makes the NHL) as a 3rd liner, nothing too special. If he reaches his absolute ceiling maybe he becomes a top 6 guy someday but I dunno, I just don't see anything that special about him

The next page didnt copy, Part (A) defined a "Long-Term Contract", Part (B) below covers recapture:



I'm not copying the rest, but you can check if you still disagree: http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en...12/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf
- WhiteLie

Again, that’s your interpretation, but all it says to me is that those long contracts that previously were not subject to any penalties, we were signed under a different set of rules, are now subject to the current rules, which are that teams can not benefit or circumvent the salary cap by paying a player all the money up front so that they can retire early without penalty:

LE, Stetcher, rights to Tryamkin and Mikey Dipietro to NJD for Subban
- dbot

Not that I am opposed to trading Stecher, Eriksson or Tryamkin, I would like to keep Dipietro and I personally want nothing to do with Subban.

Personally I see him(if he makes the NHL) as a 3rd liner, nothing too special. If he reaches his absolute ceiling maybe he becomes a top 6 guy someday but I dunno, I just don't see anything that special about him
- NorthNuck

Personally, I agree, but are they so rich in the prospect pool that you are t a little concerned. I have no attachment to players. After they traded Hodgson I became dead inside. Trade Hughes if you want, if it makes the team better now AND in the future. I’m with DCT on this one, it was dumb to go all in’er, but whatever, it’s done, let’s win some freaking games!

9m is basically Stetch and LE.

Or we could just wait for the tooth fairy to make LE disappear.

There has got to be some give if we want to get out from under Eriksson's contract.
- dbot

Don has already guaranteed that Eriksson is gone July 1st...trust in Don

Again, that’s your interpretation, but all it says to me is that those long contracts that previously were not subject to any penalties, we were signed under a different set of rules, are now subject to the current rules, which are that teams can not benefit or circumvent the salary cap by paying a player all the money up front so that they can retire early without penalty:
- 1970vintage

Even if it was talking about current contracts, Loui's was never in "excess of" 6 years, so he's still free from recapture. Not to mention, the 2012 CBA has rules in place for allowable front-loading which the 2016 Eriksson contract had to follow in order to be compliant and get approval from NHL:

50.7 Variability Rules for Multi-Year SPCs.
(a) For all "Front-Loaded SPCs" (as defined below), the difference between the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in any immediately adjacent League Years of that SPC cannot exceed thirty-five (35) percent of the stated Player Salary and Bonuses of the first League Year of such Front-Loaded SPC. Additionally, under no circumstances may the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in any League Year of a Front-Loaded SPC be less than fifty (50) percent of the highest stated Player Salary and Bonuses in a League Year of that same Front-Loaded SPC

Are you really from Spuzzum? Fuking hell, it's not the as$hole of the world, but you can see it from there!
- VanHockeyGuy

You cant see Edmonton from Spuzzum

Personally, I agree, but are they so rich in the prospect pool that you are t a little concerned. I have no attachment to players. After they traded Hodgson I became dead inside. Trade Hughes if you want, if it makes the team better now AND in the future. I’m with DCT on this one, it was dumb to go all in’er, but whatever, it’s done, let’s win some freaking games!
- 1970vintage

I was the same way. I had to suppress my tanking hopes last night when I remembered they've committed to being all in, so might as well hope for the W's now

Not that I am opposed to trading Stecher, Eriksson or Tryamkin, I would like to keep Dipietro and I personally want nothing to do with Subban.
- Makita

The team is like 4th in shots against per game; I dont think Subban helps in that regard

Even if it was talking about current contracts, Loui's was never in "excess of" 6 years, so he's still free from recapture. Not to mention, the 2012 CBA has rules in place for allowable front-loading which the 2016 Eriksson contract had to follow in order to be compliant and get approval from NHL:
- WhiteLie

Again, your talking about two different things. Past CBA and Current CBA. Recapture was created because of the issues in the past, but the NHL hasn’t said “go ahead and create short term cap savings”. They still expect players to fulfill their contracts. Lawyers argue about this poop all day long, and charge $400/hr to do it. We should charge for our time

I guess we will find out on July 2nd who is right...

Personally, I agree, but are they so rich in the prospect pool that you are t a little concerned. I have no attachment to players. After they traded Hodgson I became dead inside. Trade Hughes if you want, if it makes the team better now AND in the future. I’m with DCT on this one, it was dumb to go all in’er, but whatever, it’s done, let’s win some freaking games!
- 1970vintage

Wow, so Tyler Madden and a second is now classified as all in, and thank god they traded Hodgson he was poopé, his father was a d!ck

You cant see Edmonton from Spuzzum
- carsonagenic

The team is like 4th in shots against per game; I dont think Subban helps in that regard
- WhiteLie

No either do I, what are your thoughts if Canucks pursued Trocheck and what would be the all in cost...

Wow, so Tyler Madden and a second is now classified as all in, and thank god they traded Hodgson he was poopé, his father was a d!ck
- Makita

No, Miller for a 1st & a 3rd, Myers and Ferland was all in. Toffy for Madden and a 2nd was all in’er. Joulevi for Simmonds will be all in’erer

Sorry Vinty, but you are wrong on two parts of Loui being subject to recapture.

The CBA spells out that any Long-Term contracts signed prior to the execution of the 2012 CBA AND is in excess of 6 years in length are subject to recapture. Loui's was 6 years in length and signed in 2016.

They use an example of a standard player contract signed in 2011 to highlight/emphasize the era of contracts that are subject to the issue.

From the CBA, page 265:
- WhiteLie

This is still going on

Again, your talking about two different things. Past CBA and Current CBA. Recapture was created because of the issues in the past, but the NHL hasn’t said “go ahead and create short term cap savings”. They still expect players to fulfill their contracts. Lawyers argue about this poop all day long, and charge $400/hr to do it. We should charge for our time

I guess we will find out on July 2nd who is right...
- 1970vintage

My closing argument, your honor, is that the front-loading clause of the CBA is restrictive of the short term savings that the NHL finds permissible, and therefore is not subject to further punishment such as recapture.

I yield my time back to the thread and will expect my cheque from Ek to be larger than normal due to the amount of lawyer reading I had to endure

No, Miller for a 1st & a 3rd, Myers and Ferland was all in. Toffy for Madden and a 2nd was all in’er. Joulevi for Simmonds will be all in’erer
- 1970vintage

clear as mud, keep up the good work..