The result of being consistently matched against opponents best players has been six season of pretty subpar teams
- Michael Ghofrani

Well at least it’s not RORs fault anymore

So i just wanna confirm...
it’s now Risto’s fault we are “subpar” this season?
Not horrible goaltending for stretches?
Not a lack of secondary scoring?
Risto?

Got it

Corsi is, was, and ever shall be a “team” stat
Defining a single player by it is just as bad as using +\-

Well at least it’s not RORs fault anymore

So i just wanna confirm...
it’s now Risto’s fault we are “subpar” this season?
Not horrible goaltending for stretches?
Not a lack of secondary scoring?
Risto?

Got it

Corsi is, was, and ever shall be a “team” stat
Defining a single player by it is just as bad as using +\-
- jdfitz77

Why does it have to be one or the other. Both are very true

He may not be the reason theyve been bad but hes certainly one of the reasons they aren't good
- robz228

Yeah...
That was the same horrific argument ppl used with O’Reilly

How’d that turn out?

Can’t be any worse then the numbers Risto are putting up against them.

I’d bet my house Joker and his 100 games would already do better in that role.
- Pegullaville

He's been getting the "risto" treatment the last 20 and has been fine

Why does it have to be one or the other. Both are very true
- Michael Ghofrani

Welcome to Hockeybuzz haha.

Why does it have to be one or the other. Both are very true
- Michael Ghofrani

Then why are you just so going out him?
And doing it in a context which heavily biased toward your conclusion,
and leaving out evidence to the contrary until you’re prodded for it???

Welcome to Hockeybuzz haha.
- Pegullaville

The best part is having this out after a loss to a team that was among the first to get knee deep into analytics lol

Can’t be any worse then the numbers Risto are putting up against them.

I’d bet my house Joker and his 100 games would already do better in that role.
- Pegullaville

I'd give him a bit more experience but he will be solid

Yeah...
That was the same horrific argument ppl used with O’Reilly

How’d that turn out?
- jdfitz77

I mean I was probably the staunchest oreilly defender on here so idk

Then why are you just so going out him?
And doing it in a context which heavily biased toward your conclusion,
and leaving out evidence to the contrary until you’re prodded for it???
- jdfitz77

I've written many words on how Hutton has let the team down, same with pretend 2c johansson.

There was no evidence to the contrary. He got caved in no matter who he went up against.

The result of being consistently matched against opponents best players has been six season of pretty subpar teams
- Michael Ghofrani

I agree, there's 2 sides to the risto argument.

I like his style of play. I like that he's a consistent scorer.

Why does each coach keep playing him as the #1 defenseman? Different systems and coaches, but he just keeps getting the big minutes at the big times.

McCabe doesnt help his #'s I imagine ?

I agree, there's 2 sides to the risto argument.

I like his style of play. I like that he's a consistent scorer.

Why does each coach keep playing him as the #1 defenseman? Different systems and coaches, but he just keeps getting the big minutes at the big times.

McCabe doesnt help his #'s I imagine ?
- Boss34

Last 20 games he's taken Risto's role. He saw the most defensive usage again tonight. I think they just didn't want to throw Jokiharju to the wolves from game 1.

I agree, there's 2 sides to the risto argument.

I like his style of play. I like that he's a consistent scorer.

Why does each coach keep playing him as the #1 defenseman? Different systems and coaches, but he just keeps getting the big minutes at the big times.

McCabe doesnt help his #'s I imagine ?
- Boss34

The only explanation I have is that they think he can consume the hardest minutes without getting scored on too much. He’s usually pretty good at that. It’s ugly and they get outshot badly but the shots are lower danger.

This frees up the other 2 pairs to try to win the rest of the game against easier competition.

The only explanation I have is that they think he can consume the hardest minutes without getting scored on too much. He’s usually pretty good at that. It’s ugly and they get outshot badly but the shots are lower danger.

This frees up the other 2 pairs to try to win the rest of the game against easier competition.
- robz228

I believe this was true at one point a few years ago, not so much anymore.

So if Risto spends all this time on ice with Jack,
then why is it Risto’s fault he can’t get the puck out of the zone?

Or is it that Risto is staring in the def zone against MacKinnon and Jack is not?

Who are the other 4 guys in the ice with him?


This cherry picking BS needs to stop
TELL THE WHOLE STORY

Dahlin started less in the defensive zone, against lesser competition...
and you’re drawing comparisons based on shot attempts
Do u really not see how that’s clearly biased against Risto

And btw...
what are the quality of those shot attempts?
Were they from the outside?
Were they scoring chances?


Can’t you see how big a part of the picture you’re leaving out, when u make a statement like this:

“Ristolainen played 2 mins less than dahlin at 5v5 and was on the ice for nearly double the shot attempts against”

Never mind that he played much harder minutes against much tougher opponents
Good grief
- jdfitz77

Good grief
Good fitz

xGF is basically this stuff, if you weren’t aware

Risto plays a nice physical game and has all the intangibles you want in a hockey player. I get why people like him for that. I just don’t get how you can watch him fail to make a play with the puck that gets the team out of their zone over and over and not realize there’s something seriously wrong with his game.
- robz228

I don’t think anyone is saying he should be a Norris candidate

The issue for me, is how u guys attack him

For example:

Ristolainen played 2 mins less than dahlin at 5v5 and was on the ice for nearly double the shot attempts against

1- Corsi is a stupid stat for defining individual play
It’s a team stat mostly, just like +\-

2- if u wanna bring that up, then at least also point out that he played in tougher situations against better talent

That’s the fair and UNBIASED way to point out the shot differential

Jack looks like he’s in pain out there. Wonder if he gets shut down when the team realizes the playoffs aren’t happening.

I mean I was probably the staunchest oreilly defender on here so idk
- robz228

Welcome to the club
Also, you’re #2 at best behind me, lol

But anyways...
u being an ROR fan doesn’t validate the type of logic used in that argument

I don’t think anyone is saying he should be a Norris candidate

The issue for me, is how u guys attack him

For example:


1- Corsi is a stupid stat for defining individual play
It’s a team stat mostly, just like +\-

2- if u wanna bring that up, then at least also point out that he played in tougher situations against better talent

That’s the fair and UNBIASED way to point out the shot differential
- jdfitz77

I didn't point it out because the gap in usage doesn't account for giving up that many more shot attempts.

A handful certainly. But when you rank dead last in that "team stat", you have to at least ask the question.

I don’t think anyone is saying he should be a Norris candidate

The issue for me, is how u guys attack him

For example:


1- Corsi is a stupid stat for defining individual play
It’s a team stat mostly, just like +\-

2- if u wanna bring that up, then at least also point out that he played in tougher situations against better talent

That’s the fair and UNBIASED way to point out the shot differential
- jdfitz77

I posted all of it. Dahlin got the easier matchups but in the common scenarios you can make direct comparisons in, risto was still far far worse.

xGF is basically this stuff, if you weren’t aware

Risto plays a nice physical game and has all the intangibles you want in a hockey player. I get why people like him for that. I just don’t get how you can watch him fail to make a play with the puck that gets the team out of their zone over and over and not realize there’s something seriously wrong with his game.
- robz228

This is a super solid post. 👍

Fans of risto will see less wrong with his game and vise versa

The only explanation I have is that they think he can consume the hardest minutes without getting scored on too much. He’s usually pretty good at that. It’s ugly and they get outshot badly but the shots are lower danger.

This frees up the other 2 pairs to try to win the rest of the game against easier competition.
- robz228

But this point is very rarely brought up,
and immensely reasonable

All we hear instead is stuff like,
“Risto got caved in again”

I posted all of it. Dahlin got the easier matchups but in the common scenarios you can make direct comparisons in, risto was still far far worse.
- robz228

He's mostly after my post which is fine, I should have put out all the stats, or just not posted.

Found it interesting he saw the biggest chunk of his 5v5 time with the Larsson line.

Welcome to the club
Also, you’re #2 at best behind me, lol

But anyways...
u being an ROR fan doesn’t validate the type of logic used in that argument
- jdfitz77

Wait I was right up there and I didn't read his analytics so my bad.

Jack looks like he’s in pain out there. Wonder if he gets shut down when the team realizes the playoffs aren’t happening.
- PrinceChill

Not with ticket sales and a 100 point season

If he falls off pace tremendously, maybe?