Of him being used incorrectly on bad teams

And Corsi is a terrible stat
We’ve been agreeing a lot lately
But we’ll never agree on using Corsi as a metric to define individual play
- jdfitz77

Were not a bad team though. We’re actually good defensively and he still gets hammered against a lot of teams. It hasn’t changed

You should be
Playoffs get physical
And it’s rare that the soft team beats the team the team that’s hard to play against

And i don’t mean have a whole team of guys only like Risto & Simmonds
But you’ve gotta have some balance at least
- jdfitz77

There's been some research on this.

Someone looked into whether there was any correlation between hits and playoff success from 14-15 to 16-17 and found none.

There's been some research on this.

Someone looked into whether there was any correlation between hits and playoff success from 14-15 to 16-17 and found none.
- Michael Ghofrani

The Bruins beat the Leafs because Rask played at a Conn Smythe level and Andersen folded like a cheap suit (and frankly still hasn’t recovered)

If we don’t spend as much time in our own zone, he doesn’t have to block as many shots or hit people due to the fact he coughed up the puck in an attempt to transition it up the ice.

Look I like the raw attributes that Risto brings as well, I happen to think the cons outweigh the pros.
- Pegullaville

Fair enough 🤝

I don’t think the Bruins beat the Leafs last year because they were more physical, they beat them because Rask played out of his mind games 5 through 7 and carried it forward the rest of the way.
- Pegullaville

Are u really gonna single out 1 particular series?

Why did the 06-07 Sabres struggle through the playoffs even though we won the Presidents Cup?
Bc teams took it to us with physical play
That can neutralize skill (to varying degrees)

Cbus over Tampa last year
Physical play had a lot to do with the Caps Cup run

I’m not saying get a bunch of face punchers,
but physicality plays a role in hockey
Especially in the playoffs

Were not a bad team though. We’re actually good defensively and he still gets hammered against a lot of teams. It hasn’t changed
- sbroads24

Risto is effective in the offensive zone, unfortunately a part of his position requires him to play defence and get the puck out of the defensive zone.

Were not a bad team though. We’re actually good defensively and he still gets hammered against a lot of teams. It hasn’t changed
- sbroads24

By hammered, are u still talking about Corsi?
Bc u know we will never come to an understanding when that’s the basis of any argument

There's been some research on this.

Someone looked into whether there was any correlation between hits and playoff success from 14-15 to 16-17 and found none.
- Michael Ghofrani

“Hits” is not the only measure of being “tough to play against”

If that’s all u think it is,
then we are in different worlds with this discussion

“Hits” is not the only measure of being “tough to play against”

If that’s all u think it is,
then we are in different worlds with this discussion
- jdfitz77

I obviously don't as I alluded to in my previous post but you have me at a loss then cause im not sure what you mean by it.

Are u really gonna single out 1 particular series?

Why did the 06-07 Sabres struggle through the playoffs even though we won the Presidents Cup?
Bc teams took it to us with physical play
That can neutralize skill (to varying degrees)

Cbus over Tampa last year
Physical play had a lot to do with the Caps Cup run

I’m not saying get a bunch of face punchers,
but physicality plays a role in hockey
Especially in the playoffs
- jdfitz77

The Trotz led Caps held the Lightning to 3 shots on goal in the third period in an elimination game in which they were leading. They were a solid defensive team. The Blues, Bruins, Stars were 3/4 best teams in GAA last year and all were in the thick of it at the end (if Cogliano hits the wide open net in OT, ROR goes home in the 2nd round).

Physicality plays a small role, strong defensive structural teams along with strong goaltending play a bigger role.

The Blue Jackets smothered the Lightning offensively and that’s why they won the series. Through 10 games that playoffs Bob had a .925 Sv%

I obviously don't as I alluded to in my previous post but you have me at a loss then cause im not sure what you mean by it.
- Michael Ghofrani

Being “physical” helps win battles on the walls, in the corners, in front of the net...
not only defensively, but offensively as well

For example:
who do u want trying to clear the front of the net,
Risto or Dahlin?

And being physical, is only a part of being tough to play against
Speed, for checking, hustle, effort, and so on

There’s so much more to hockey than just “skill”

Not everything can be defined by metrics
That’s why u see Cbus beating a historically great regular season team in Tampa

That’s why the President’s Trophy teams (incl the 06-07 Sabres) often don’t win the Cup

In the regular season,
skill wins out most nights

But in the playoffs,
when everything gets amped up physically,
that does play a factor

It’s not the ONLY factor
But it plays a role more often than not

The Trotz led Caps held the Lightning to 3 shots on goal in the third period in an elimination game in which they were leading. They were a solid defensive team. The Blues, Bruins, Stars were 3/4 best teams in GAA last year and all were in the thick of it at the end (if Cogliano hits the wide open net in OT, ROR goes home in the 2nd round).

Physicality plays a small role, strong defensive structural teams along with strong goaltending play a bigger role.

The Blue Jackets smothered the Lightning offensively and that’s why they won the series. Through 10 games that playoffs Bob had a .925 Sv%
- Pegullaville

Well the guys who play the game disagree with you

There's been some research on this.

Someone looked into whether there was any correlation between hits and playoff success from 14-15 to 16-17 and found none.
- Michael Ghofrani

Colorado plays the classic west coast hockey.

Which means the style they play is fast playoff hockey.

The Sabres looked over matched a good portion of the game but they kept up.

IMO, they need to look at Colorado as the type of team to build.

Colorado was faster to the puck all night. Much faster and still almost lost. Buffalo had their chances.

Being “physical” helps win battles on the walls, in the corners, in front of the net...
not only defensively, but offensively as well

For example:
who do u want trying to clear the front of the net,
Risto or Dahlin?

And being physical, is only a part of being tough to play against
Speed, for checking, hustle, effort, and so on

There’s so much more to hockey than just “skill”

Not everything can be defined by metrics
That’s why u see Cbus beating a historically great regular season team in Tampa

That’s why the President’s Trophy teams (incl the 06-07 Sabres) often don’t win the Cup

In the regular season,
skill wins out most nights

But in the playoffs,
when everything gets amped up physically,
that does play a factor

It’s not the ONLY factor
But it plays a role more often than not
- jdfitz77

A lot of what you describe for physical play, if executed well, directly leads to good on ice results. Like Larsson's play at both ends.

There's no scenario where a player wins battles along the wall, corners, forechecks well with speed and clears the front of the net effectively and still manages to put up poor on ice results.

Well the guys who play the game disagree with you
- jdfitz77

Daniel Briere and Justin Williams are two of the most clutch playoff performers of the last 10-15 years yet they weren’t big bruisers would you say ?

I’m not saying you can’t be devoid of physicality at all, it holds some weight and is a piece to the overall puzzle, I just think you are overhyping it that’s all.

Colorado plays the classic west coast hockey.

Which means the style they play is fast playoff hockey.

The Sabres looked over matched a good portion of the game but they kept up.

IMO, they need to look at Colorado as the type of team to build.

Colorado was faster to the puck all night. Much faster and still almost lost. Buffalo had their chances.
- dadeadhead

I tend to agree

I tend to agree
- Michael Ghofrani

Both teams were in the same boat last year. Sakic went and got Kadri, Burakovsky, Donskoi, Nichushkin, and had a full year of Makar though.

Botts needs to make his moves this offseason after we hopefully secure one more top 10 pick.

A lot of what you describe for physical play, if executed well, directly leads to good on ice results. Like Larsson's play at both ends.

There's no scenario where a player wins battles along the wall, corners, forechecks well with speed and clears the front of the net effectively and still manages to put up poor on ice results.
- Michael Ghofrani

Sure, bc very few players do ALL that
You need to do all that as a TEAM
And to do that as a team...
you need guys that can do some of those things
And u need other guys that can do the rest
U need that balance

A defense of 6 Duncan Keith’s gets destroyed in the playoffs
Just like a defense of 6 Hjarlmarsson’s would

U need guys that compliment each other’s skill sets so that u can have a well rounded group

Sure, bc very few players do ALL that
You need to do all that as a TEAM
And to do that as a team...
you need guys that can do some of those things
And u need other guys that can do the rest
U need that balance

A defense of 6 Duncan Keith’s gets destroyed in the playoffs
Just like a defense of 6 Hjarlmarsson’s would

U need guys that compliment each other’s skill sets so that u can have a well rounded group
- jdfitz77

I agree, but those two d-men are good examples of players who do a few of those well, and there on ice impact at one end is very good .Keith in o-zone, hjalmarsson in the d-zone

Daniel Briere and Justin Williams are two of the most clutch playoff performers of the last 10-15 years yet they weren’t big bruisers would you say ?

I’m not saying you can’t be devoid of physicality at all, it holds some weight and is a piece to the overall puzzle, I just think you are overhyping it that’s all.
- Pegullaville

How many Cups did Messier win without Gretzky?
How many Cups did Gretzky win without Messier?

I can list off every single Cup winner,
and on every single one there will be physical players
And i don’t mean “face punchers”

Both teams were in the same boat last year. Sakic went and got Kadri, Burakovsky, Donskoi, Nichushkin, and had a full year of Makar though.

Botts needs to make his moves this offseason after we hopefully secure one more top 10 pick.
- Pegullaville

Kadri & Nichuskin play a physical game,
do they not?

I agree, but those two d-men are good examples of players who do a few of those well, and there on ice impact at one end is very good .Keith in o-zone, hjalmarsson in the d-zone
- Michael Ghofrani

And what about their 2nd & 3rd pair guys?
They weren’t “very good” in one end or the other necessarily

Let’s do this,
bc we seem to be spinning around in circles...

Sabres get rid of Risto & McCabe

Dahlin-Miller
Pilut-Jokiharju
Bryson-Montour

Teams will beat the snot out of that defense
They will pound & punish them into turnovers and wear them down overall

If u guys really don’t think physical play matters,
then just look to what the players say
Bc every single one of them talks about how physical the playoffs get
How you’ve gotta win battles, get to the front of the net, and on & on

It’s an important factor

And what about their 2nd & 3rd pair guys?
They weren’t “very good” in one end or the other necessarily

Let’s do this,
bc we seem to be spinning around in circles...

Sabres get rid of Risto & McCabe

Dahlin-Miller
Pilut-Jokiharju
Bryson-Montour

Teams will beat the snot out of that defense
They will pound & punish them into turnovers and wear them down overall

If u guys really don’t think physical play matters,
then just look to what the players say
Bc every single one of them talks about how physical the playoffs get
How you’ve gotta win battles, get to the front of the net, and on & on

It’s an important factor
- jdfitz77

If you're referring to Chicago they absolutely were. Im not sure why the Sabres can't add after moving Risto and/or McCabe.

I think physical play matters. My point was, in the definition you described it as, if a player does those things well, his on ice results are good.

Risto's aren't, which would suggest he's not actually winning these battles with any sort of consistency.

you mentioned Nichushkin as a physical player, that was an "analytics" find. Smart teams know where to find value, especially the kind that's undervalued by other teams, and snap them for cents on the dollar.

If you're referring to Chicago they absolutely were. Im not sure why the Sabres can't add after moving Risto and/or McCabe.

I think physical play matters. My point was, in the definition you described it as, if a player does those things well, his on ice results are good.

Risto's aren't, which would suggest he's not actually winning these battles with any sort of consistency.

you mentioned Nichushkin as a physical player, that was an "analytics" find. Smart teams know where to find value, especially the kind that's undervalued by other teams, and snap them for cents on the dollar.
- Michael Ghofrani

Sure, in theory i guess
But filling one hole by creating another isn’t a good practice

And “can we add?”

We’re still trying to fill the hole created by trading ROR
And i was told “he’d be EASY TO REPLACE”

Welp...
We see how that turned out

I tend to agree
- Michael Ghofrani

If they do, they’ll be the team to beat for years.

An Eastern conference team playing West coast hockey....?


They might win the cup.

We watched the Sabres(lose mind you) play west coast hockey. They might be on the right track.