That's definitely a possibility. He's the exact type of player you add at the trade deadline when loading up for a cup run.
- buffalofan19

So in 2028, Seattle adds sam and they win there 2nd Stanley cup in a row?

What makes him the "exact" type of player.
Would eichel already be on said team ? That would make sense

So in 2028, Seattle adds sam and they win there 2nd Stanley cup in a row?

What makes him the "exact" type of player.
Would eichel already be on said team ? That would make sense
- Boss34

Eichel would be on said team, probably on his rookie deal or on a bridge deal, yes.

And who would you suggest those u underperforming players are.
Forget Okposo, we know that.
- IonSabres

I haven’t beaten that dead horse enough ?

None of these other players are commanding or going to command a long term deal at anywhere near the salary Reinhart is going to command. In fact, every one of these players comes off the books at the end of this season except for Okposo. Pegulaville has it mostly right when he said that the team needs to be built through the draft. The problem is when these players are developed to the point they're ready to be championship caliber, assuming they hit on these draft picks, they will be off their rookie deals and Reinhart will be have to be moved anyway. If they don't hit on them, they're not going to sniff a championship either way.
- buffalofan19

Reinhart is a tough one.
He produces very well relative to his bridge deal.
At $7m+ and riding on Eichel's wing that is no longer a value contract.
He doesn't seem to be a leader, and he adds nothing from a difficult to play against perspective.

What is his production away from Jack?
Jeez, they never figured that out, same with Skinner in his contract year.
Piss poor management right there.

Can they get similar production from someone else?
Many have tried, but no, not really on Eichel's right.
Replacing him is not just as easy as rotating some guy in.

If they could get a good 2C for him, I'd move him. To do so, I think they would still need to add to it.

Eichel would be on said team, probably on his rookie deal or on a bridge deal, yes.
- buffalofan19

Jack jr. ?

Cause I just do not see john jack the first being on another rookie deal.

I see the Sabres trading eichel in 5 years when he has some value left.

Then maybe we trade a 1st and sam with his 3 years left at 27 million to the same team.

Okposo style- or suggested okposo style

Jack jr. ?

Cause I just do not see john jack the first being on another rookie deal.

I see the Sabres trading eichel in 5 years when he has some value left.

Then maybe we trade a 1st and sam with his 3 years left at 27 million to the same team.

Okposo style- or suggested okposo style
- Boss34

I figured you met an Eichel-like player (i.e. someone you decided to build your team around).

Reinhart is a tough one.
He produces very well relative to his bridge deal.
At $7m+ and riding on Eichel's wing that is no longer a value contract.
He doesn't seem to be a leader, and he adds nothing from a difficult to play against perspective.

What is his production away from Jack?
Jeez, they never figured that out, same with Skinner in his contract year.
Piss poor management right there.

Can they get similar production from someone else?
Many have tried, but no, not really on Eichel's right.
Replacing him is not just as easy as rotating some guy in.

If they could get a good 2C for him, I'd move him. To do so, I think they would still need to add to it.
- IonSabres

The analysis stops here. When you have this many holes on the roster, and (hopefully) better rookie players up for contracts in a few years, that contract becomes an anchor.

If Skinner doesn't get the deal he has now, it's possibly a different conversation.

I haven’t beaten that dead horse enough ?
- Pegullaville

There is only 1?

Here's my answer
Tradeable
Risto
Montour
Miller
McCabe
Mojo
Hutton

UFA's
Vesey
Frolik
Simmonds

Can't trade that contract
Skinner
Okposo

I'm with 19...Sam joins the bottom list when resigned

None of these other players are commanding or going to command a long term deal at anywhere near the salary Reinhart is going to command. In fact, every one of these players comes off the books at the end of this season except for Okposo. Pegulaville has it mostly right when he said that the team needs to be built through the draft. The problem is when these players are developed to the point they're ready to be championship caliber, assuming they hit on these draft picks, they will be off their rookie deals and Reinhart will be have to be moved anyway. If they don't hit on them, they're not going to sniff a championship either way.
- buffalofan19

You're putting Reinhart in the position of a straw man. Every single point you make here is equally as applicable to Jack, or to Dahlin (on his new deal), or to whatever unicorn 2C we will ultimately have to bring in.

There is no Stanley Cup champion whose roster is made up entirely of ELC players. You have to pay the veteran talent. Until you point out something concrete that establishes that Sam won't outperform the next contract just as he has his first two, you're worrying about something that is inherent to the construction of any roster in today's NHL, and singling out one player to bear the brunt of that fear.

Based on what we have seen so far, you should be AT LEAST as concerned - MORESO, in fact - about the contract that Dahlin will sign. In Sam's case, we have real data to quantify his value. Given his actual performance to date, Dahlin's next contract will be based more on potential than on demonstrated performance.

I figured you met an Eichel-like player (i.e. someone you decided to build your team around).
- buffalofan19

Ok, that makes more sense 🙉

You're putting Reinhart in the position of a straw man. Every single point you make here is equally as applicable to Jack, or to Dahlin (on his new deal), or to whatever unicorn 2C we will ultimately have to bring in.

There is no Stanley Cup champion whose roster is made up entirely of ELC players. You have to pay the veteran talent. Until you point out something concrete that establishes that Sam won't outperform the next contract just as he has his first two, you're worrying about something that is inherent to the construction of any roster in today's NHL, and singling out one player to bear the brunt of that fear.

Based on what we have seen so far, you should be AT LEAST as concerned - MORESO, in fact - about the contract that Dahlin will sign. In Sam's case, we have real data to quantify his value. Given his actual performance to date, Dahlin's next contract will be based more on potential than on demonstrated performance.
- Der Kaiser

I'm not as concerned about Dahlin because is going to be one of the league's best defensemen. He already has a bigger impact on this team than Reinhart does. Reinhart is a good player that is going to command a very good to great salary. Dahlin is trending to be a great player.

Also, no Stanley Cup champion is built entire of ELC's, but almost all of them have bargain deals. The money that Reinhart will command won't be anywhere near that. It's not a matter of blaming Reinhart. As an individual, he's earned it. The problem is, with the way the team is constructed now, you can't pay him what he's worth and also say "we're serious about winning a championship" with a straight face.

I'm not as concerned about Dahlin because is going to be one of the league's best defensemen. He already has a bigger impact on this team than Reinhart does. Reinhart is a good player that is going to command a very good to great salary. Dahlin is trending to be a great player.
- buffalofan19

Lots of people say so. The stats don't.

Lots of people say so. The stats don't.
- Der Kaiser

40 points in 59 games as a 20 year-old on a team with an underwhelming forward group, while averaging less ice time than every defenseman ahead of him tells me he is trending that way.

None of these other players are commanding or going to command a long term deal at anywhere near the salary Reinhart is going to command. In fact, every one of these players comes off the books at the end of this season except for Okposo. Pegulaville has it mostly right when he said that the team needs to be built through the draft. The problem is when these players are developed to the point they're ready to be championship caliber, assuming they hit on these draft picks, they will be off their rookie deals and Reinhart will be have to be moved anyway. If they don't hit on them, they're not going to sniff a championship either way.
- buffalofan19

The problem is that the Sabres missed their opportunity to sign Reinhart long term for a lower cap hit. Probably could have gotten him for $6M if we didn’t bridge him.

You're putting Reinhart in the position of a straw man. Every single point you make here is equally as applicable to Jack, or to Dahlin (on his new deal), or to whatever unicorn 2C we will ultimately have to bring in.

There is no Stanley Cup champion whose roster is made up entirely of ELC players. You have to pay the veteran talent. Until you point out something concrete that establishes that Sam won't outperform the next contract just as he has his first two, you're worrying about something that is inherent to the construction of any roster in today's NHL, and singling out one player to bear the brunt of that fear.

Based on what we have seen so far, you should be AT LEAST as concerned - MORESO, in fact - about the contract that Dahlin will sign. In Sam's case, we have real data to quantify his value. Given his actual performance to date, Dahlin's next contract will be based more on potential than on demonstrated performance.
- Der Kaiser

It’s impossible to have a majority of the team on ELC’s, however the benefit of drafting and developing is to hopefully get them on value contracts in their 2nd deals.

Draisatil at $8.5M and Pasternak at $6.7M are two very recent examples of that.

The analysis stops here. When you have this many holes on the roster, and (hopefully) better rookie players up for contracts in a few years, that contract becomes an anchor.

If Skinner doesn't get the deal he has now, it's possibly a different conversation.
- buffalofan19

That is just the start, but yes. Unfortunately he is locked in.
To get any kind of value, he needs to produce at a minimum of 35/30/65 IMO, and that is low.
To do so, he needs a Jack-like center, or to play with Jack.

Okposo kills this team value wise. Like the guy, like his 4th line play...would really like him at about $2M.

Risto, Montour and Miller are virtually redundant. Miller and Montour are paid (for now) like 2nd pairings. Risto is paid like a 1st...especially when that contract was signed.
Joker makes all 3 redundant at 2nd pairing...and none can play 1st pairing.
Borgen and Brycen are the future 3rd pairings, which makes all 3 of those guys redundant to the smart play and should be traded.
Do it now and vet what you can before their value declines further.

Mojo is exactly the type of player you add at the TDL for a playoff run, like Boston did and was smart enough to let him walk...why? Because he is overpaid for his season long play.
Would he be a good 3rd line LW or Rw...yes, absolutely produ tion wise...but not at that contract. Sabres can get better value.

This roster as presently constructed is soft, easy to play against, mentally fragile and overpaid.
Bringing in guys like Frolik and Simmonds showed that it is true...but those guys are relics...Sabres should look for quality of character in their core and complimentary players...not trying to buy it with guys who were good 3 years ago.

But, let's tweak the roster and have Jason Einstein expect different results

That is just the start, but yes. Unfortunately he is locked in.
To get any kind of value, he needs to produce at a minimum of 35/30/65 IMO, and that is low.
To do so, he needs a Jack-like center, or to play with Jack.

Okposo kills this team value wise. Like the guy, like his 4th line play...would really like him at about $2M.

Risto, Montour and Miller are virtually redundant. Miller and Montour are paid (for now) like 2nd pairings. Risto is paid like a 1st...especially when that contract was signed.
Joker makes all 3 redundant at 2nd pairing...and none can play 1st pairing.
Borgen and Brycen are the future 3rd pairings, which makes all 3 of those guys redundant to the smart play and should be traded.
Do it now and vet what you can before their value declines further.

Mojo is exactly the type of player you add at the TDL for a playoff run, like Boston did and was smart enough to let him walk...why? Because he is overpaid for his season long play.
Would he be a good 3rd line LW or Rw...yes, absolutely produ tion wise...but not at that contract. Sabres can get better value.

This roster as presently constructed is soft, easy to play against, mentally fragile and overpaid.
Bringing in guys like Frolik and Simmonds showed that it is true...but those guys are relics...Sabres should look for quality of character in their core and complimentary players...not trying to buy it with guys who were good 3 years ago.

But, let's tweak the roster and have Jason Einstein expect different results
- IonSabres

I'm not going to fully blame Botterill for the Skinner deal because I was in the "it was necessary" camp.

Okposo's deal might be moveable after next season to a team looking to get to the cap floor. His actual salary will be less than his cap hit.

You're putting Reinhart in the position of a straw man. Every single point you make here is equally as applicable to Jack, or to Dahlin (on his new deal), or to whatever unicorn 2C we will ultimately have to bring in.

There is no Stanley Cup champion whose roster is made up entirely of ELC players. You have to pay the veteran talent. Until you point out something concrete that establishes that Sam won't outperform the next contract just as he has his first two, you're worrying about something that is inherent to the construction of any roster in today's NHL, and singling out one player to bear the brunt of that fear.

Based on what we have seen so far, you should be AT LEAST as concerned - MORESO, in fact - about the contract that Dahlin will sign. In Sam's case, we have real data to quantify his value. Given his actual performance to date, Dahlin's next contract will be based more on potential than on demonstrated performance.
- Der Kaiser

Dahlin is 20, playing one if the most difficult positions and producing offensively.
He lacks defensive maturity, that should come in time.
Now is exactly when they should extend Dahlin for as long as they can...as it will reduce the Cap hit over the long haul. That is how you get value contracts.

Sam was different, in his contract year he took 40 games off as vacation, then produced at a 1st line rate.
Who exactly was he?

I'm not as concerned about Dahlin because is going to be one of the league's best defensemen. He already has a bigger impact on this team than Reinhart does. Reinhart is a good player that is going to command a very good to great salary. Dahlin is trending to be a great player.

Also, no Stanley Cup champion is built entire of ELC's, but almost all of them have bargain deals. The money that Reinhart will command won't be anywhere near that. It's not a matter of blaming Reinhart. As an individual, he's earned it. The problem is, with the way the team is constructed now, you can't pay him what he's worth and also say "we're serious about winning a championship" with a straight face.
- buffalofan19

Good post.
Stated very well, and spot on.

40 points in 59 games as a 20 year-old on a team with an underwhelming forward group, while averaging less ice time than every defenseman ahead of him tells me he is trending that way.
- buffalofan19

Thats because you have Buffalow expectations and that meets the definition as Generational to you. Did Pocahontas endorse Bernie yet?

The problem is that the Sabres missed their opportunity to sign Reinhart long term for a lower cap hit. Probably could have gotten him for $6M if we didn’t bridge him.
- Pegullaville

This is a solid point. I think the Sabres wanted to obviously see what Sam had to offer - under this management team. Have him cheaper last year and this year. Bogo, moulson and okposo still on the cap.

6 x 6 would have him @ 4 years and 24 million. Tough to lose the years of ufa on a guy you lost purposely to obtain.

Now the ball is in the Sabres court. Still a rfa. Still little leverage aside from arbitration?

Dahlin is 20, playing one if the most difficult positions and producing offensively.
He lacks defensive maturity, that should come in time.
Now is exactly when they should extend Dahlin for as long as they can...as it will reduce the Cap hit over the long haul. That is how you get value contracts.

Sam was different, in his contract year he took 40 games off as vacation, then produced at a 1st line rate.
Who exactly was he?
- IonSabres

I think it's noteworthy that you justify Dahlin's contract on his career long performance and criticize Sam's opportunity for a long term signing based on 40 games of one season. I know you watched the first half of Dahlins season this year. That's doesn't trouble you as much as Sam's "vacation" did, apparently?

This is a solid point. I think the Sabres wanted to obviously see what Sam had to offer - under this management team. Have him cheaper last year and this year. Bogo, moulson and okposo still on the cap.

6 x 6 would have him @ 4 years and 24 million. Tough to lose the years of ufa on a guy you lost purposely to obtain.

Now the ball is in the Sabres court. Still a rfa. Still little leverage aside from arbitration?
- Boss34

I was in the bridge him camp as well to be honest.

I thought it was a risk to go long term, turns out he stepped his game up and definitely would have at least would not have hurt us moving forward at a $6M contract.

That’s the game you have to play with paying players on potential before production.

I would think with the flat cap, that should help us with Reinhart’s contract. However, his arbitration rights will give him a little more leverage in the negotiations.

You're putting Reinhart in the position of a straw man. Every single point you make here is equally as applicable to Jack, or to Dahlin (on his new deal), or to whatever unicorn 2C we will ultimately have to bring in.

There is no Stanley Cup champion whose roster is made up entirely of ELC players. You have to pay the veteran talent. Until you point out something concrete that establishes that Sam won't outperform the next contract just as he has his first two, you're worrying about something that is inherent to the construction of any roster in today's NHL, and singling out one player to bear the brunt of that fear.

Based on what we have seen so far, you should be AT LEAST as concerned - MORESO, in fact - about the contract that Dahlin will sign. In Sam's case, we have real data to quantify his value. Given his actual performance to date, Dahlin's next contract will be based more on potential than on demonstrated performance.
- Der Kaiser

I think we may be looking at 8 yrs $60-64M right now. Is that concerning? I don't think so. However, squeezing. $7.5M hit for skunk to go along with $27M combined for Jack, Dahlin and the new whipping boy is

The problem is that the Sabres missed their opportunity to sign Reinhart long term for a lower cap hit. Probably could have gotten him for $6M if we didn’t bridge him.
- Pegullaville

He was coming off a Jekyll and Hyde season.