He’s been here longer then Murray and has arguably been worse. Why does he deserve another draft and another year?
- Fattony1187

Arguably? U should share whatever you’re smoking.

Thats why this point about him setting up cap space is nonsensical. He signed these players lol.

Congrats on trading for and signing players that are leaving?

It's like the kool-aid man fixing the wall after he smashed through it. You dont give him credit for fixing the wall, you say "why the hell did you smash through it in the first place."
- jcragcrumple

Oh Yeaaaah

He’s been here longer then Murray and has arguably been worse. Why does he deserve another draft and another year?
- Fattony1187

he gets another year because kim has spoken

he gets another year because kim has spoken
- homiedclown

She knows more than us, Clown.

Do you follow Chad Dedominicous(sp?)

Botteril never inherited a team in cap hell.


- ImThatGuy

I guess it's how you define cap hell...according to CapFriendly the Sabres were $1.3M under the $71.6M cap ceiling in 2016-17...the top-10 cap-hits were:

ror--$7.5m
Okposo--6
risto--5.4
kane--5.25
Bogo--5.1
Moulson--5
ennis--4.6
Kulikov--4.33
Gionta--4.25
gorges--3.9

a total of about $51M

all of those contracts were on the books for at least another year save for Kulikov and Gionta with the albatross contracts of Okposo, bogo and Moulson ($16.1M total) all stretching out at least two seasons after botts took over...gorges was on the books for one more season

Correct, the organization was flawed, it was never cap strapped like many argue.

The Sabres had the space, they had to make the right moves. They did not.
- ImThatGuy

botts brought in
scandella
pommer
wilson
sheary
hunwick
beglund
sobotka
skinner
montour
miller
vesey
johanson
frolik
simmonds
hutton

not much value for the dollar

I mean he got joker and kahun

he also pissed away just as many draft picks as murray, w/o getting the kane/ror type players

at the end of the day he let a fringe first line LW go for next to nothing and a conn smythe winning center go for next to nothing


and on a lost season, we have overage cap issues for next season

pawn shop owner got one, shot a "peaceful protester" that was trying to loot the pawn shop
- homiedclown

Down here at the pawn shop
https://youtu.be/GxvnVzaDglI
(Turn the bass up)

She knows more than us, Clown.
- TheSabresTaco

when she dies, the skin care product sisters will move the teams to california

The DBTB analytics crew had a full blown hard on for him but have come down within the past 6-12 months. He's better than his AHL stay indicates, but he's not as good as his cherry picked analytics of simply carrying the puck out indicate. He has some real defensive flaws.

Working with guys like Ristolainen and McCabe help his game because they're the ones who physically defend, more or less, and give Pilut the puck to carry it out. Analytically, this makes the pair look good. It doesn't make either one a "good" defenseman, it just says, when paired together, against certain average opponents, they have great success getting the puck out of the zone and to the forwards.
- TheSabresTaco

What does the bolded actually mean? Yes, I am being serious with that question.

Arguably? U should share whatever you’re smoking.
- Hatboro_Swords

people forget the give

when playing puff puff give

Thats why this point about him setting up cap space is nonsensical. He signed these players lol.

Congrats on trading for and signing players that are leaving?

It's like the kool-aid man fixing the wall after he smashed through it. You dont give him credit for fixing the wall, you say "why the hell did you smash through it in the first place."
- jcragcrumple

If the goal was 2020-2021 and ownership signed off on it, it doesn't matter who the roster was on this year as long as you have the flexibility to let go or retain whoever you want. Good cap management should be evaluated based on what it looks like for multiple seasons in the future, not just the current one. The fact of the matter is, if Botterill were fired, the replacement GM would becoming into a much better cap position than he did. We all expected a better team than we got going into the season, but we didn't expect anything special. The less than ideal amount of improvement just means his margin for error is next to zero in 2020-2021.

The DBTB analytics crew had a full blown hard on for him but have come down within the past 6-12 months. He's better than his AHL stay indicates, but he's not as good as his cherry picked analytics of simply carrying the puck out indicate. He has some real defensive flaws.

Working with guys like Ristolainen and McCabe help his game because they're the ones who physically defend, more or less, and give Pilut the puck to carry it out. Analytically, this makes the pair look good. It doesn't make either one a "good" defenseman, it just says, when paired together, against certain average opponents, they have great success getting the puck out of the zone and to the forwards.
- TheSabresTaco

^this^

If the goal was 2020-2021 and ownership signed off on it, it doesn't matter who the roster was on this year as long as you have the flexibility to let go or retain whoever you want. Good cap management should be evaluated based on what it looks like for multiple seasons in the future, not just the current one. The fact of the matter is, if Botterill were fired, the replacement GM would becoming into a much better cap position than he did. We all expected a better team than we got going into the season, but we didn't expect anything special. The less than ideal amount of improvement just means his margin for error is next to zero in 2020-2021.
- buffalofan19

Only if the new GM was willing to make trades.

If they were not, the cap space is much less.

^this^
- Michael Pachla

I'll ask you the same question I asked Taco: what does physically defending actually mean?

people forget the give

when playing puff puff give
- homiedclown

Agreed. It'll be interesting to see how the NHL and NHLPA handle player bonuses
- Michael Pachla

Definitely some cases where the players are going to feel cheated, like point totals or games played that they easily would have hit.

My question is on the numbers. Sabres were accruing cap space daily to at least partially pay those bonuses. Is the league going to project this out over the remainder of the season, like CapFriendly has done? If they simply freeze it, we'll get hit with an even bigger penalty next season.

botts brought in
scandella
pommer
wilson
sheary
hunwick
beglund
sobotka
skinner
montour
miller
vesey
johanson
frolik
simmonds
hutton

not much value for the dollar

I mean he got joker and kahun

he also pissed away just as many draft picks as murray, w/o getting the kane/ror type players

at the end of the day he let a fringe first line LW go for next to nothing and a conn smythe winning center go for next to nothing


and on a lost season, we have overage cap issues for next season
- homiedclown

What does that say that Murray brought in "better" players but his teams were barely any better than Botterill's? At least you can make the argument that Botterill took the long-term approach (perhaps too long). Murray was in "win-now" mode from the moment he drafted Eichel and never came close.

Both GM's are going to be known for their drafts. Take out Eichel and Reinhart (and Dahlin for Botterill) who should be as close to guarantees as you get, and you know Murray's was lacking. You have Olofsson, but if you believe the story, he only drafted him because one of his scouts threw a fit like a nine-year-old schoolgirl whose mother wouldn't let her watch TV on a school night. Botterill's is still largely unknown. Mittelstadt doesn't look good on him right now though.

Only if the new GM was willing to make trades.

If they were not, the cap space is much less.
- kingcong39

Trades were always going to be necessary. The Free Agent pool isn't good enough to get this team over the hump, regardless of how much cap space you have.

If it means getting a player as good as Barkov, you find a way to make that work. The question is: why is Florida trading Barkov at all, let alone within the division?
- buffalofan19

FL isn't going to trade Barkov.

Seems like Pilut's agent is trying to leverage a better deal with Buffalo. Wonder if Pilut has the same agent as Borgstrom, he's trying the same tactic with FL.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Taco: what does physically defending actually mean?
- kingcong39

it's his quote but i'd hazard to guess it means playing the body whether in front of the net, along the wall or at the blueline

Definitely some cases where the players are going to feel cheated, like point totals or games played that they easily would have hit.

My question is on the numbers. Sabres were accruing cap space daily to at least partially pay those bonuses. Is the league going to project this out over the remainder of the season, like CapFriendly has done? If they simply freeze it, we'll get hit with an even bigger penalty next season.
- Lunaion

In a normal season, aren't you allowed to accrue cap space until the end of the league year? If so, why would this be different?

What does that say that Murray brought in "better" players but his teams were barely any better than Botterill's? At least you can make the argument that Botterill took the long-term approach (perhaps too long). Murray was in "win-now" mode from the moment he drafted Eichel and never came close.

Both GM's are going to be known for their drafts. Take out Eichel, Reinhart, and Dahlin who should be as close to guarantees as you get, and you know Murray's was lacking. You have Olofsson, but if you believe the story, he only drafted him because one of his scouts threw a fit like a nine-year-old schoolgirl whose mother wouldn't let her watch TV on a school night. Botterill's is still largely unknown. Mittelstadt doesn't look good on him right now though.
- buffalofan19

maybe it says the owners that were fans before they bought the team should hire a middle man between them and the gm

If the goal was 2020-2021 and ownership signed off on it, it doesn't matter who the roster was on this year as long as you have the flexibility to let go or retain whoever you want. Good cap management should be evaluated based on what it looks like for multiple seasons in the future, not just the current one. The fact of the matter is, if Botterill were fired, the replacement GM would becoming into a much better cap position than he did. We all expected a better team than we got going into the season, but we didn't expect anything special. The less than ideal amount of improvement just means his margin for error is next to zero in 2020-2021.
- buffalofan19

If the goal was 2020-2021, you don't give yourself a cap overage by winning the frolik sweepstakes.

Idk, it sounds like you think he's playing 4d chess. I think he's just bad at all this.

Trades were always going to be necessary. The Free Agent pool isn't good enough to get this team over the hump, regardless of how much cap space you have.
- buffalofan19

Do you trust Botterill to get quality trades done? I am quite dubious on that.

If the goal was 2020-2021, you don't give yourself a cap overage by winning the frolik sweepstakes.

Idk, it sounds like you think he's playing 4d chess. I think he's just bad at all this.
- jcragcrumple

Like I said, the cap overages are nowhere near as big a deal as they're made out to be. He was always going to need to improve this team via trade, and he still has more than enough room to do so. Whether he does so or not, is a different issue.