I’m just curious, is trading picks/prospects now for players that will be declining by the time Detroit becomes a contending team a good idea. Those seem like deals you make in year 3 or so of the rebuild rather than year 1.
- RedC21

In this hypothetical idea we aren’t really losing picks just pick position. Hoarding too many 2nd/3rd round picks is going to run you into a position where you have no SPCs left and/or no development spots in GR. Adding good NHLers without losing out on much future potential creates a better/more stable environment for younger players to grow. Getting caved in 4-1, 3-0, 5-2 is not great for the psychological aspect of player development.

I’m just curious, is trading picks/prospects now for players that will be declining by the time Detroit becomes a contending team a good idea. Those seem like deals you make in year 3 or so of the rebuild rather than year 1.
- RedC21

My biggest worry is wasting the prime years of Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi. If these guys are entering their 30s by the time the Wings become relevant then is that smart? Or does Yzerman see Mantha and Bertuzzi as place holders for now? Is his REAL Red Wings team the one he ices 5 years from now?

I'm not advocating for fast tracking like the Sabres did. It blew up in their faces. But I don't see trading an extra 2nd round pick or a bust 1st round pick as mortgaging the future. Yzerman needs to improve the overall talent base. You can't keep sucking year after year with no improvement and then wave a magic wand and become a Cup contender.

The Leafs have young stars galore and still haven't won anything. Yzerman slowly built his Tampa teams via the draft and that's what he'll do in Detroit. There needs to be a proper balance. You want to improve. Build the right way. Be patient. But too much losing isn't good for anyone. You need to show progression. Just like the Wings teams of the early 90s did.

I don’t think Detroit has to give up a ton because my guess is Palat and Johnson are more likely to waive NTCs if moved together.
- Feds91Stammer

Agreed. Palat and Johnson are close friends and have been since the minors. They have great synergy together. I'd hate to see them go, but the cap is the cap.

The only thing keeping me from hating the Cholo pick is that not much else after him has panned out yet.
- Feds91Stammer

Carter Hart was taken right after Givani Smith. ☹️

My biggest worry is wasting the prime years of Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi. If these guys are entering their 30s by the time they become relevant then is that smart? Or does Yzerman see Mantha and Bertuzzi as place holders for now? Is his REAL Red Wings team the one he ices 5 years from now?

I'm not advocating for fast tracking like the Sabres did. It blew up in their faces. But I don't see trading an extra 2nd round pick or a bust 1st round pick as mortgaging the future. Yzerman needs to improve the overall talent base. You can't keep sucking year after year with no improvement and then wave a magic wand and become a Cup contender.

The Leafs have young stars galore and still haven't won anything. Yzerman slowly built his Tampa teams via the draft and that's what he'll do in Detroit. There needs to be a proper balance. You want to improve. Build the right way. Be patient. But too much losing isn't good for anyone. You need to show progression. Just like the Wings teams of the early 90s did.
- gergeswillems

Timeline needs to be:
Playoff bubble: 2-3 years
Playoff contender: 3-4 years
Deep playoff run contender: 4-5 years
Cup contender: 5+ years

Like you said they need to continually get better so they can at least get some playoff experience before they are a cup contender.

Timeline needs to be:
Playoff bubble: 2-3 years
Playoff contender: 3-4 years
Deep playoff run contender: 4-5 years
Cup contender: 5+ years

Like you said they need to continually get better so they can at least get some playoff experience before they are a cup contender.
- Feds91Stammer

Crawl before they walk. Walk before they run. Forrest Gump the NHL.

Thank you Jeremy for some very nice hockey blogs. Appreciate it.

RedC21 i just want to say I certainly enjoy your comments on all team sites. Thank you for some good info and lots of factual comments.

My biggest worry is wasting the prime years of Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi. If these guys are entering their 30s by the time they become relevant then is that smart? Or does Yzerman see Mantha and Bertuzzi as place holders for now? Is his REAL Red Wings team the one he ices 5 years from now?

I'm not advocating for fast tracking like the Sabres did. It blew up in their faces. But I don't see trading an extra 2nd round pick or a bust 1st round pick as mortgaging the future. Yzerman needs to improve the overall talent base. You can't keep sucking year after year with no improvement and then wave a magic wand and become a Cup contender.

The Leafs have young stars galore and still haven't won anything. Yzerman slowly built his Tampa teams via the draft and that's what he'll do in Detroit. There needs to be a proper balance. You want to improve. Build the right way. Be patient. But too much losing isn't good for anyone. You need to show progression. Just like the Wings teams of the early 90s did.
- gergeswillems

I wasn’t advocating to never do it cause in the end I agree with you. I was just saying maybe wait a year. Your current prospects aren’t nhl ready yet and outside of the few big names your cupboards are still pretty bare from the end of the Holland era. I would be willing to move svech, Ras, and cholo, but I would keep your 2nds and 3rds for this year. This is supposed to be a super deep draft and next year’s will vary at best due to every league likely having a shortened season and limited scouting reports.

Carter Hart was taken right after Givani Smith. ☹️
- gergeswillems

Yeah there’s been a few for sure. Just hasn’t been a ton so I can’t completely hate it yet.

I wasn’t advocating to never do it cause in the end I agree with you. I was just saying maybe wait a year. Your current prospects aren’t nhl ready yet and outside of the few big names your cupboards are still pretty bare from the end of the Holland era. I would be willing to move svech, Ras, and cholo, but I would keep your 2nds and 3rds for this year. This is supposed to be a super deep draft and next year’s will vary at best due to every league likely having a shortened season and limited scouting reports.
- RedC21

Your 2nds and 3rds are about as likely to become impact players for you as your 6ths and 7ths though.

Tyler Johnson makes sense. Yzerman drafted him. He knows him. Johnson isn't old. Wings could really use a legit 2C to take some pressure off Larkin. Yzerman and Brisebois know each other very well. Johnson might waive his NTC because he trusts Yzerman to build a winner eventually.

It's better feeling wanted. Johnson knows it's a business and Tampa has an embarrassment of riches (thanks to Yzerman). It's nothing personal. Tampa just needs the cap space. I could see a trade here.

Having Johnson allows Veleno more time to develop. Sliding Filppula down to 3C allows Rasmussen more time as well. Yzerman won't rush these guys. I'd prefer keeping Fabbri on the wing. I don't know what Tampa would expect coming back but I'd think one of Detroit's 2nd round picks would be part of the trade. Brisebois won't want much salary coming back.

Would Svechnikov interest Tampa? A potential Fabbri/Johnson/Zadina line intrigues me. Red Wings need a legitimate 2nd line to at least be able to compete. Right now they're way too easy to match up against. The defense is still bad but... one thing at a time.
- gergeswillems

I’d love to see TJ come to Detroit.

RedC21 i just want to say I certainly enjoy your comments on all team sites. Thank you for some good info and lots of factual comments.
- joegreif17

Haha thanks, most of what I say is opinion which is something that varies amongst all hockey fans. I’m just here for healthy conversations with people who love the game just as much as I do.

I wasn’t advocating to never do it cause in the end I agree with you. I was just saying maybe wait a year. Your current prospects aren’t nhl ready yet and outside of the few big names your cupboards are still pretty bare from the end of the Holland era. I would be willing to move svech, Ras, and cholo, but I would keep your 2nds and 3rds for this year. This is supposed to be a super deep draft and next year’s will vary at best due to every league likely having a shortened season and limited scouting reports.
- RedC21

I believe in a two pronged approach. Build up my current team by improving the talent base. But my bread and butter is drafting and developing. That's where Yzerman will sink or swim. His Tampa history tells us he's more likely to swim.

Holland tried rebuilding on the fly to keep a pointless playoff streak intact. It could've worked had he drafted well but he failed miserably his last decade. He couldn't buy his way out of trouble like he did in the pre cap era. He left Yzerman a total mess and then ran away to Edmonton. Hello McDavid and Draisaitl! Hey I'm a great GM again!

Yzerman will look for small moves to improve. Like trading a 4th line plug in Jacob De La Rose for Robbie Fabbri. That improves the team's talent base. You accumulate moves like that and that's how you progress. Trading for Johnson and Palat makes you better now while not mortgaging your future. It's all about asset management.

I'm still keeping my first round picks. I'm still hoping to find a Kucherov in the 2nd round. Or acquire a Sergachev in a trade. I'm still building around Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Zadina, Hronek and Seider and eventually Veleno. But I'm always on the lookout to improve my team. Whether it's year 1 or 3 of my rebuild. A successful team builds in stages and that's what Yzerman is doing.

I’d love to see TJ come to Detroit.
- Jeremy Laura

If the term isn't ridiculous then why not?

Your 2nds and 3rds are about as likely to become impact players for you as your 6ths and 7ths though.
- Feds91Stammer

I would say that depends on what your definition of impact player is. Joe velano (2nd last pick in the first), mcisaac, tuomisto are guys I think most wings fans would say there unwilling to move for a Johnson/palat. Another example is the 2015 draft. It was also regarded as a pretty deep draft and so far has yielded 22 guys with nhl games from the 2nd round and half that from rounds 6,7 combined. With the exception Sebastian aho none of them are superstars but I see 9 players that have put up capable minutes as middle six players or top 4 D man. Yes 2nd rounds more of a crapshoot than the 1st but it’s far less of a one than the later rounds and it’s become wiser to draft and develop players than sign free agents that are at the end of their prime before they hit UFA status. Also as I said keep this years picks and move next years if you want. The 2021 draft will likely be a massive crapshoot no matter where you’re selecting.

I would say that depends on what your definition of impact player is. Joe velano (2nd last pick in the first), mcisaac, tuomisto are guys I think most wings fans would say there unwilling to move for a Johnson/palat. Another example is the 2015 draft. It was also regarded as a pretty deep draft and so far has yielded 22 guys with nhl games from the 2nd round and half that from rounds 6,7 combined. With the exception Sebastian aho none of them are superstars but I see 9 players that have put up capable minutes as middle six players or top 4 D man. Yes 2nd rounds more of a crapshoot than the 1st but it’s far less of a one than the later rounds and it’s become wiser to draft and develop players than sign free agents that are at the end of their prime before they hit UFA status. Also as I said keep this years picks and move next years if you want. The 2021 draft will likely be a massive crapshoot no matter where you’re selecting.
- RedC21

I get what you’re saying but for instance look at 2014s 2nd round. And in the 6th and 7th 2014 had Labanc, Kase, and Olofsson.

I believe in a two pronged approach. Build up my current team by improving the talent base. But my bread and butter is drafting and developing. That's where Yzerman will sink or swim. His Tampa history tells us he's more likely to swim.

Holland tried rebuilding on the fly to keep a pointless playoff streak intact. It could've worked had he drafted well but he failed miserably his last decade. He couldn't buy his way out of trouble like he did in the pre cap era. He left Yzerman a total mess and then ran away to Edmonton. Hello McDavid and Draisaitl! Hey I'm a great GM again!

Yzerman will look for small moves to improve. Like trading a 4th line plug in Jacob De La Rose for Robbie Fabbri. That improves the team's talent base. You accumulate moves like that and that's how you progress. Trading for Johnson and Palat makes you better now while not mortgaging your future. It's all about asset management.

I'm still keeping my first round picks. I'm still hoping to find a Kucherov in the 2nd round. Or acquire a Sergachev in a trade. I'm still building around Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Zadina, Hronek and Seider and eventually Veleno. But I'm always on the lookout to improve my team. Whether it's year 1 or 3 of my rebuild. A successful team builds in stages and that's what Yzerman is doing.
- gergeswillems

Ok, I think I clearly see what you’re saying now and I would say we’re pretty close to being on the same page. I think where we have a difference of opinion is likely around what the cost to acquire one or both of Johnson and palat. My opinion being higher than what I think Detroit should be looking to trade at this stage of the rebuild ie multiple draft picks. If you could trade something like svech/Ras/ or cholo plus a 2nd/3rd I would go for it but not much more than that. I will be curious to see with all the 2nds that the wings and Ottawa have combined what the outcome of this round will be 10 years from now

Ok, I think I clearly see what you’re saying now and I would say we’re pretty close to being on the same page. I think where we have a difference of opinion is likely around what the cost to acquire one or both of Johnson and palat. My opinion being higher than what I think Detroit should be looking to trade at this stage of the rebuild ie multiple draft picks. If you could trade something like svech/Ras/ or cholo plus a 2nd/3rd I would go for it but not much more than that. I will be curious to see with all the 2nds that the wings and Ottawa have combined what the outcome of this round will be 10 years from now
- RedC21

It's all about the cost. If Tampa wants too much in return for Johnson and Palat then I'll pass. Yzerman isn't going to go all Paul Holmgren, fast tracking his franchise into the ground. Tampa and Detroit make ideal trade partners but it's not the end of the world if nothing happens.

Tampa has a Cup window and they want to keep as much of their core intact for as long as they can. Detroit wants to improve their overall talent so they can compete. Gain some confidence and show progression. I'd certainly be willing to trade Cholowski. I view him as a suspect as opposed to a prospect. I'd keep Rasmussen. There's some solid potential there. If he can turn into a big shutdown 3C then the Wings should keep him.

Buffalo seemed to have 2nd round picks to burn when they began their rebuild but it blew up in their face. They missed on too many picks and made trades for the sake of making trades. I don't want Yzerman to emulate that model at all. It clearly didn't work. Quality over quantity. I don't want a Brian Burke fast track in Detroit. Yzerman won't do that. He doesn't crave attention like Burke does.

I appreciate where you’re coming from. But, 4.5 mil spread over 6 players needed isn’t going to go far. New league minimum is going to be $1 mil. Freddie expires this year as well. Hyman expires. Rosen and Marincin need extensions. The cap will be flat again. This is going to cause some shuffling in one way or another
- Jeremy Laura

He absolutely does not.

He absolutely does not.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Marincin is almost as bad as Jonathan Errorsson was. Pylon.

Good blog, Dubas biggest mistake was not sending Nylander for Hamilton. Probably haunt the Leafs for years.

Good blog, Dubas biggest mistake was not sending Nylander for Hamilton. Probably haunt the Leafs for years.
- Garnie

I thought when Tavares was signed that Nylander would be traded the next day. Nylander is an excellent winger but the Leafs needed a stud D more. They still do. I still view Nylander as a luxury more than a necessity for the Leafs. Dubas obviously feels otherwise.

I get what you’re saying but for instance look at 2014s 2nd round. And in the 6th and 7th 2014 had Labanc, Kase, and Olofsson.
- Feds91Stammer

That’s why I was making the case for THIS DRAFT. 2014 wasn’t regarded as bad but it certainly wasn’t talked about like 2015 or 2020 was. If Detroit wants to trade picks for players trade 2021 picks. That draft isn’t supposed to be bad but in my opinion halted seasons from corona will greatly hurt player development and limit scouting. If the junior leagues don’t start or play half years next year a large part of scouting data will be from this past season which in turn will lead to lots of busts or at best players miss-ranked for better or worse

It's all about the cost. If Tampa wants too much in return for Johnson and Palat then I'll pass. Yzerman isn't going to go all Paul Holmgren, fast tracking his franchise into the ground. Tampa and Detroit make ideal trade partners but it's not the end of the world if nothing happens.

Tampa has a Cup window and they want to keep as much of their core intact for as long as they can. Detroit wants to improve their overall talent so they can compete. Gain some confidence and show progression. I'd certainly be willing to trade Cholowski. I view him as a suspect as opposed to a prospect. I'd keep Rasmussen. There's some solid potential there. If he can turn into a big shutdown 3C then the Wings should keep him.

Buffalo seemed to have 2nd round picks to burn when they began their rebuild but it blew up in their face. They missed on too many picks and made trades for the sake of making trades. I don't want Yzerman to emulate that model at all. It clearly didn't work. Quality over quantity. I don't want a Brian Burke fast track in Detroit. Yzerman won't do that. He doesn't crave attention like Burke does.
- gergeswillems

I would say for the most part we’re in agreement. Who knows maybe what cholowski’s shown so far or svech’s unknown potential may seem more valuable in the eyes of Tampa’s staff