I'm not sure you can say that if jc job was in jeopardy he would have been fired. I think the most realistic way of looking at Chicago's future is to not make any changes just yet for obvious reasons. Hire a new team President and see what the organizational changes occur.

As a outsider if I had to judge jc , his record leaves me to give him a grade of a F.

I think many people thought bowman would get fired , and we saw MC D get axed , that doesn't mean stan is safe it just means new overall leadership and direction will be addressed.

From their I think everyone is on notice .
- Taylorst1

There is the difference in our thoughts, you want Colliton gone, give him a F, I give him a grade of incomplete, if I had to give a letter, overall i would give him a C.

I'm still really pulling for Kurashev and Beaudin. I feel like those guys are the second tier types that will help put the Hawks in a good spot.

For my money, Crawford is above average at handling the puck. He seems definitely better than the other goalies the Hawks have had in recent years who often struggle.
- breadbag

As we all saw through the Cup runs, depth is crucial to a deep playoff run. Kurashev and Beaudin may not be the next Toews and Keith, but if they can provide quality depth to the club that’s a huge win.

There is the difference in our thoughts, you want Colliton gone, give him a F, I give him a grade of incomplete, if I had to give a letter, overall i would give him a C.
- LAHawk

Ok I simply made the point that, right now chicago has either 1 round left or more games depending on how they play. Its inconceivable to fire jc before they finish up the season. That was my point countering your point that chicago could have done that I explained as to why that didn't make sense right now.



Yes I know many people will say it was long overdue to fire coach q . Ok that's debatable, stan never produced a roster after the 3rd cup that was going to be competitive. Jc has been given more quality players to work with, his record though is at best 50/50 . The bottom line in any sport is winning and after 2 seasons his record doesn't scream anything but avg at best.

That's all I was trying to point out

I'm still really pulling for Kurashev and Beaudin. I feel like those guys are the second tier types that will help put the Hawks in a good spot.

For my money, Crawford is above average at handling the puck. He seems definitely better than the other goalies the Hawks have had in recent years who often struggle.
- breadbag

Not to be politically incorrect - but comparing Corey to other Hawks goalies is akin to winning a tallest midget contest ... except for Lehner who I thought was much better behind his net than Corey is.

Crawford was terrible handling the puck when he toiled in Rcckford/AHL. But he has not been burned in this respect while earning three Cups.

I would like 6628 to chime in on Crawford puck handling nowadays. I do know that you are more qualified than some bloggers here on goaltendung. But I understand you have done a lot iof coaching. Amd often have studied and commented about technique.
- jhawk59

Hi Hawk, I'll save time and say I agree with Tyler's post about Crawford. He was brutal when he got here with stick handling the puck. It will never be his best attribute, but he's miles ahead of where he was. I think sometimes he tries to be too involved in handling and moving the puck. I wish he would treat that part of his game like a rookie D man, just keep it simple. He'd be a lot better off, and I would scream "get back in the (frank)ing net" at the tv a lot less.

I'd also like to add that if he was as skilled with his stick back in the Phoenix playoff series, 2011 I think, my belief is that he makes the stops in OT that he flubbed

I'm not sure you can say that if jc job was in jeopardy he would have been fired. I think the most realistic way of looking at Chicago's future is to not make any changes just yet for obvious reasons. Hire a new team President and see what the organizational changes occur.

As a outsider if I had to judge jc , his record leaves me to give him a grade of a F.

I think many people thought bowman would get fired , and we saw MC D get axed , that doesn't mean stan is safe it just means new overall leadership and direction will be addressed.

From their I think everyone is on notice .
- Taylorst1

By his record, you mean his 2 incomplete seasons as coach so far in the NHL. I am one that is still in the wait and see, as he hasn't had a full season from start to finish on the NHL yet, and he had the team improving this year before the stoppage. The team was starting to come together and gel finally. So far, I would give him a grade of C. I think it now depends on what happens with the playoffs now, and how he starts off next season. If the team struggles in the beginning of the year like they did this year, then i can see him getting canned.

Hi Hawk, I'll save time and say I agree with Tyler's post about Crawford. He was brutal when he got here with stick handling the puck. It will never be his best attribute, but he's miles ahead of where he was. I think sometimes he tries to be too involved in handling and moving the puck. I wish he would treat that part of his game like a rookie D man, just keep it simple. He'd be a lot better off, and I would scream "get back in the (frank)ing net" at the tv a lot less.

I'd also like to add that if he was as skilled with his stick back in the Phoenix playoff series, 2011 I think, my belief is that he makes the stops in OT that he flubbed
- 6628

I agree that behind the net, his puck management (tho better than in 2012) leaves a lot to be desired - even outlet passes he completes usually don’t leave the receiver in a good position to transition.

But - how much of that has been defensemen / forwards not being in a good transition position to begin with? One thing I really noticed from watching the Cup-years replays is that almost always, there were Hawks in good position to receive quick outlet passes, and quickly transition the puck up ice. That hasn’t been true the past couple of years.

By his record, you mean his 2 incomplete seasons as coach so far in the NHL. I am one that is still in the wait and see, as he hasn't had a full season from start to finish on the NHL yet, and he had the team improving this year before the stoppage. The team was starting to come together and gel finally. So far, I would give him a grade of C. I think it now depends on what happens with the playoffs now, and how he starts off next season. If the team struggles in the beginning of the year like they did this year, then i can see him getting canned.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

I challenge your perception on this team improving and I complete seasons as a basis for his record.


He was hired 15 games into the season last year that's not really a incomplete season but ok I'll concede he didn't start at the beginning , but after his awful start he finally got some production only to lose control right when it was needed. Everyone said well let's give him the offseason to re establish a system have a full training camp some much needed roster upgrades ok.

Now here we are and this team started off horribly , they've been playing well below 500 hundred. It was lehner who truly was the biggest reason Chicago wasn't in last place in the league. The only reason right now chicago is in the playoffs is because the league felt the need for a revamped playoff format.

His record is awful , a lack of consistency, a defensive structure that is weak , a power play that has no threat, and inconsistency throughout the lineup.

That's on him to motivate the team and show he can win. 12th place doesn't breed confidence he is the right bench boss.

I challenge your perception on this team improving and I complete seasons as a basis for his record.


He was hired 15 games into the season last year that's not really a incomplete season but ok I'll concede he didn't start at the beginning , but after his awful start he finally got some production only to lose control right when it was needed. Everyone said well let's give him the offseason to re establish a system have a full training camp some much needed roster upgrades ok.

Now here we are and this team started off horribly , they've been playing well below 500 hundred. It was lehner who truly was the biggest reason Chicago wasn't in last place in the league. The only reason right now chicago is in the playoffs is because the league felt the need for a revamped playoff format.

His record is awful , a lack of consistency, a defensive structure that is weak , a power play that has no threat, and inconsistency throughout the lineup.

That's on him to motivate the team and show he can win. 12th place doesn't breed confidence he is the right bench boss.
- Taylorst1

I think the record is right about where the talent is on the roster (especially at the beginning of the year). You think this team had a playoff roster? I will argue roster wise, playing strat o matic hockey they would come in last in the central division by far. Yes JC as a coach has made many mistakes, but 1) He has developed and is developing the young players (Bovquist, Dach, Nylander, Kubalik) this year, and the team rarely takes a period off. You definitely couldn't say that about the last couple of Q years.

Tyler, I must dispute your assessment of Crawford's puck handling. I think he's terrible at making the simple pass play - a pass that is intended for a guy 10 feet away goes 20 feet often to an opposing player and likewise a pass that needs to go 20 feet usually goes only about 10 feet and puts the d-man in a pickle. I think he's a very good goalie and I'm glad the Hawks have him between the pipes but I cringe every time he ventures out of his crease. JMO.
- EbonyRaptor

Agreed. CC has gotten better during his career, but he's still a below average puck handler.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 2010 team had Keith and Seabrook in their prime. I do not see their replacements on the Hawks yet. The Hawks defensive problems go way beyond a #1 netminder, statistically last in the league in almost every category. The Hawks have a lot of prospects on defense, but they are still prospects, not young all star caliber defenseman like #2 and #7;already were in 2010.
- LAHawk

Agreed. This group of young D may end up being deeper, (the Hawks ran some bad 3rd pairing guys out there during the glory years) there might not be a future HOF/Norris/Conn Smythe winner in the group.

I challenge your perception on this team improving and I complete seasons as a basis for his record.


He was hired 15 games into the season last year that's not really a incomplete season but ok I'll concede he didn't start at the beginning , but after his awful start he finally got some production only to lose control right when it was needed. Everyone said well let's give him the offseason to re establish a system have a full training camp some much needed roster upgrades ok.

Now here we are and this team started off horribly , they've been playing well below 500 hundred. It was lehner who truly was the biggest reason Chicago wasn't in last place in the league. The only reason right now chicago is in the playoffs is because the league felt the need for a revamped playoff format.

His record is awful , a lack of consistency, a defensive structure that is weak , a power play that has no threat, and inconsistency throughout the lineup.

That's on him to motivate the team and show he can win. 12th place doesn't breed confidence he is the right bench boss.
- Taylorst1

You leave out the hall of fame Q wasn't winning with this team either.

Agreed. This group of young D may end up being deeper, (the Hawks ran some bad 3rd pairing guys out there during the glory years) there might not be a future HOF/Norris/Conn Smythe winner in the group.
- scottak

In the cap world we live in the third pairing will always be: really young or old, cheap and probably suck. Since 2015 every team has moved up to the top of the payroll. It's not 6-8 teams well below the cap anymore, it's 1-2 teams.

There is the difference in our thoughts, you want Colliton gone, give him a F, I give him a grade of incomplete, if I had to give a letter, overall i would give him a C.
- LAHawk

D+. The start this year was brutal, and it took him way too long to figure how all the pieces fit together. And let's not forget he sat a Calder candidate while playing some bad forwards.

I agree that behind the net, his puck management (tho better than in 2012) leaves a lot to be desired - even outlet passes he completes usually don’t leave the receiver in a good position to transition.

But - how much of that has been defensemen / forwards not being in a good transition position to begin with? One thing I really noticed from watching the Cup-years replays is that almost always, there were Hawks in good position to receive quick outlet passes, and quickly transition the puck up ice. That hasn’t been true the past couple of years.
- StLBravesFan

Fair point, that may be part of it. But he couldn't pick his nose with both hands when he got here. And he still needs more than one finger.

I challenge your perception on this team improving and I complete seasons as a basis for his record.


He was hired 15 games into the season last year that's not really a incomplete season but ok I'll concede he didn't start at the beginning , but after his awful start he finally got some production only to lose control right when it was needed. Everyone said well let's give him the offseason to re establish a system have a full training camp some much needed roster upgrades ok.

Now here we are and this team started off horribly , they've been playing well below 500 hundred. It was lehner who truly was the biggest reason Chicago wasn't in last place in the league. The only reason right now chicago is in the playoffs is because the league felt the need for a revamped playoff format.

His record is awful , a lack of consistency, a defensive structure that is weak , a power play that has no threat, and inconsistency throughout the lineup.

That's on him to motivate the team and show he can win. 12th place doesn't breed confidence he is the right bench boss.
- Taylorst1

Fair challenge, and I don't have specifics to back it up, so maybe someone can help me, but I believe that the teams stats were better in the second half of the season (about Christmas on), then in the first half, especially defensively. I don't think they improved all that much, but just watching them throughout the entire season, I could see a difference with how they played as a team at the beginning of the year compared to the end of the year. To my eye, and somewhat from the stats, he was getting the team to improve playing as a team. And I think that is the big thing here, there were a lot of new and rookie players on this team, which was going to take time for them all to gel and start playing together as a team, and for a new coach to start to get them doing that...I think that speaks volumes in itself in the potential JC has as a coach...now he still needs to figure out how to play the match up game and such, but that will come with time as he figures it out. By all accounts he is a smart guy and probably will, or at least I think he will.

As we all saw through the Cup runs, depth is crucial to a deep playoff run. Kurashev and Beaudin may not be the next Toews and Keith, but if they can provide quality depth to the club that’s a huge win.
- DarthKane

Exactly.

Your farm has to produce Bollands, Bickells, Shaws, Krugers Find Versteegs and complimentary players in the cheapest way possible.
The current era and new Cap restraint translates to find the player like Pius Super who you get on the cheap and performs at an effective level, so when and if the team starts to be cramped for Cap room, you get a chance to recycle them for either another player of a chance to draft a prospect.

I challenge your perception on this team improving and I complete seasons as a basis for his record.


He was hired 15 games into the season last year that's not really a incomplete season but ok I'll concede he didn't start at the beginning , but after his awful start he finally got some production only to lose control right when it was needed. Everyone said well let's give him the offseason to re establish a system have a full training camp some much needed roster upgrades ok.

Now here we are and this team started off horribly , they've been playing well below 500 hundred. It was lehner who truly was the biggest reason Chicago wasn't in last place in the league. The only reason right now chicago is in the playoffs is because the league felt the need for a revamped playoff format.

His record is awful , a lack of consistency, a defensive structure that is weak , a power play that has no threat, and inconsistency throughout the lineup.

That's on him to motivate the team and show he can win. 12th place doesn't breed confidence he is the right bench boss.
- Taylorst1

Motivate? Seriously with Koekkoek, Seeler and Gusto, 7 hurt, Maata hurt deHaan hurt, forwards learning how to play defense. And we definitely aren't Toronto with the stable of forwards that they have yet.

Not to be politically incorrect - but comparing Corey to other Hawks goalies is akin to winning a tallest midget contest ... except for Lehner who I thought was much better behind his net than Corey is.
- EbonyRaptor

I'm not saying that isn't true, but it was a night and day difference. For me, none of the goalies handled the puck better than CC and CC while he isn't elite at it, he is competent at the NHL level. For me, it's always been more of a strength than a weakness in his game.

I think the record is right about where the talent is on the roster (especially at the beginning of the year). You think this team had a playoff roster? I will argue roster wise, playing strat o matic hockey they would come in last in the central division by far. Yes JC as a coach has made many mistakes, but 1) He has developed and is developing the young players (Bovquist, Dach, Nylander, Kubalik) this year, and the team rarely takes a period off. You definitely couldn't say that about the last couple of Q years.
- LAHawk

Having Bovquist, Dach, Kubalik and Strome vs what Q had in Manning and Kunitz and Osterle and Forsling is a wee bit different. The ghost of Patrick Sharp. Woof. Those were some very flawed teams where there didn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. The prospect pool was pretty garbage as well and at least with this incarnation, even though nothing is certain with prospects, there is a much richer talent pool.

Any team that isn't in the bottom 4 could be a playoff team. Those middle teams are so close it comes down to luck, injuries and who decides to have a career year.

This notion that the Hawks are worse off talent wise than any team other than the Blues or Avs in the West is not accurate. The have a good chance to get past the Oilers and if they get a favorable draw, sneak through another round. I think they are on the upswing and hopefully the coach has improved enough to not get totally out classed by Tippet.

As far as motivating goes i imagine the only players you might have to motivate are ones with fat contracts, but when it comes to these kids playing for a professional contract stop with saying the coach needs to motivate them sometimes the kids are as good as they can be at the age that they are at.

Exactly.

Your farm has to produce Bollands, Bickells, Shaws, Krugers Find Versteegs and complimentary players in the cheapest way possible.
The current era and new Cap restraint translates to find the player like Pius Super who you get on the cheap and performs at an effective level, so when and if they start to be outpaced for Cap room, you get a chance to recycle them for either another player of a chance to draft a prospect.
- wiz1901

Not to rag on you for a typo, but I love the name Pius Super - sounds like a good name for a monk.

Fair point, that may be part of it. But he couldn't pick his nose with both hands when he got here. And he still needs more than one finger.
- 6628

How can any goalie pick his nose at all with the huge glove they all wear now?

Make them go back to the Dee Fondy trapper’s mitts they used to use....

Not to rag on you for a typo, but I love the name Pius Super - sounds like a good name for a monk.
- EbonyRaptor

Apparently Pope Pius the VII was also a monk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_VII

Having Bovquist, Dach, Kubalik and Strome vs what Q had in Manning and Kunitz and Osterle and Forsling is a wee bit different. The ghost of Patrick Sharp. Woof. Those were some very flawed teams where there didn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. The prospect pool was pretty garbage as well and at least with this incarnation, even though nothing is certain with prospects, there is a much richer talent pool.

Any team that isn't in the bottom 4 could be a playoff team. Those middle teams are so close it comes down to luck, injuries and who decides to have a career year.

This notion that the Hawks are worse off talent wise than any team other than the Blues or Avs in the West is not accurate. The have a good chance to get past the Oilers and if they get a favorable draw, sneak through another round. I think they are on the upswing and hopefully the coach has improved enough to not get totally out classed by Tippet.
- fattybeef

Bovquist, Dach, Kubalik and Strome would not have made any of the cup teams especially with Q coaching.