You forgot the expansion draft as a factor.

We may not get "much" for him, but if he shows flashes, he is gone for nothing for sure because he is the kind of player who can fill seats.
- PT21

Seattle didn't hire an extensive analytics staff to assess acquiring players to "fill seats"

While the expansion draft is a factor it's not a big one. If he plays to the level where he is worth keeping Chuck will find a way to keep him.

I think Ghost is the perfect player to move in the offseason. If he isn’t posting points, he doesn’t offer much. His points can be made up for by committee on defense.
- SuperSchennBros

It's not about the points. Good-Ghost does a lot of things that are pretty much unmatched on the team -- his shot and puck-carrying threat can totally break defenses open.

Let's see if bad-Ghost is gone after the knee scopes before we go back on the endless debate on whether/when to trade him. I think the last thing any one of us wants is to watch him turn into a full-blown EK on another team.

So you felt this way during his rookie season and when he was 4th in league D scoring? Or is this in regards to his last 2 regular seasons? In 17/18, he actually showed that he could play defense well, although that went away the last 2 years.

As for "not needing his production," I'd argue that you can never have enough production.
- jmatchett383

THIS!

To my way of thinking, "production" is what puts a team in a good mood going down the tunnel after a win. Maybe I'm wrong about that???

It's not about the points. Good-Ghost does a lot of things that are pretty much unmatched on the team -- his shot and puck-carrying threat can totally break defenses open.

Let's see if bad-Ghost is gone after the knee scopes before we go back on the endless debate on whether/when to trade him. I think the last thing any one of us wants is to watch him turn into a full-blown EK on another team.
- Tomahawk

Seems like adding to the list of former Flyers who come back to haunt us would be something to avoid if we can do so.

Having a hard time believing that hockey is finally here.

Seattle didn't hire an extensive analytics staff to assess acquiring players to "fill seats"

While the expansion draft is a factor it's not a big one. If he plays to the level where he is worth keeping Chuck will find a way to keep him.
- Lip_Out

I don't disagree with you, I meant all other things considered a new team trying to generate buzz would like a guy who would attract attention. I did not mean they would sacrifice quality for glam.

If you were the GM of the Kraken, and you had Hagg and Ghost to choose from, whom would you pick?

I think Seattle throws a wrench in things, if a decent offer is there Go for it but I think having capable defenders is very important. Teams seem to find forwards for cheap to plug in like the Tyler ennis’ of the world. D is much harder.
- ClaudeFather

Youre going to lose one of Hagg JvR or Ghost to that poophole city if none are moved for picks/prospects, which would be malfeasance on Flecher's part

Youre going to lose one of Hagg JvR or Ghost to that poophole city if none are moved for picks/prospects, which would be malfeasance on Flecher's part
- KINGKENZO

Well, I always see it as losing them for the cap space. Especially JVR. Ill take 7 million in cap space for JVR straight up any day of the week.

People seem to forget we will be losing someone to Seattle, if we move him and then lose another Dman to Seattle we could be looking rather thin on D.
- ClaudeFather

I didn’t forget anything. I’m fine with losing JVR. Ghost has more value by having a fair deal and still young enough to produce. [/img]

Agreed...but how long do you hold onto a depreciating asset?

I'm a big Ghost fan, have been since he was drafted and first saw him play. But at what point do you say he's lost it?
- jmatchett383

I don’t think he’s lost it. I think a lot has been made of his first and third season. He’s unlikely to live up to that going forward. So I would trade him as soon as he plays up or down his value.

No one is arguing his production hasn't gone down drastically. The argument is IF he can rekindle his game, the word "If" being a conjunction meaning "in the event that." So "if" he gets his game back to where it was prior to 18/19, then he would not have a stat line like the one you presented.
- jmatchett383

Ok, look at his body of work. He had one Excellent Year (17-18), 65 (13g/52a) points with +10. One very good year (15-16), 46 points with +8. Sure, if he was in that range - they should give him a look - which they are... Other years (18-19, 16-17) his points were in the 30's with less than 10 goal and +/- at -21 and -20. In any of these years, half of his points were from the PP.

Hagg has less experience, but has improved year over year. Last year was a full year, and he got 20 points (5g/15a) without the benefit of the PP ice-time.

Do you know what category the Flyers are leading the league this season? ...Shots Against Average (and a very good Goals Against). I believe this is a huge reason why we're talking about the Flyers even being in the playoffs. Remember how awful the team was last year... They moved from 18-19 of 32.5 SA-PG (3.41 GA-PG) to 19-20 28.7 SA-PG (2.77 GA-PG). Obviously another key factor is goals for... 2.94 to 3.29 this year without the help of Ghost... They don't need him. The defense is better without him, and they are getting the goals.

Ok, look at his body of work. He had one Excellent Year (17-18), 65 (13g/52a) points with +10. One very good year (15-16), 46 points with +8. Sure, if he was in that range - they should give him a look - which they are... Other years (18-19, 16-17) his points were in the 30's with less than 10 goal and +/- at -21 and -20. In any of these years, half of his points were from the PP.

Hagg has less experience, but has improved year over year. Last year was a full year, and he got 20 points (5g/15a) without the benefit of the PP ice-time.

Do you know what category the Flyers are leading the league this season? ...Shots Against Average (and a very good Goals Against). I believe this is a huge reason why we're talking about the Flyers even being in the playoffs. Remember how awful the team was last year... They moved from 18-19 of 32.5 SA-PG (3.41 GA-PG) to 19-20 28.7 SA-PG (2.77 GA-PG). Obviously another key factor is goals for... 2.94 to 3.29 this year without the help of Ghost... They don't need him. The defense is better without him, and they are getting the goals.
- leon neon

The conclusion of your argument is that a team made significant improvements because of a #6/7 DMan inserted because of the injury of another player without any on ice statistics presented for this year between the two players being inserted into the discussion. Tough scene.

Ok, look at his body of work. He had one Excellent Year (17-18), 65 (13g/52a) points with +10. One very good year (15-16), 46 points with +8. Sure, if he was in that range - they should give him a look - which they are... Other years (18-19, 16-17) his points were in the 30's with less than 10 goal and +/- at -21 and -20. In any of these years, half of his points were from the PP.

Hagg has less experience, but has improved year over year. Last year was a full year, and he got 20 points (5g/15a) without the benefit of the PP ice-time.

Do you know what category the Flyers are leading the league this season? ...Shots Against Average (and a very good Goals Against). I believe this is a huge reason why we're talking about the Flyers even being in the playoffs. Remember how awful the team was last year... They moved from 18-19 of 32.5 SA-PG (3.41 GA-PG) to 19-20 28.7 SA-PG (2.77 GA-PG). Obviously another key factor is goals for... 2.94 to 3.29 this year without the help of Ghost... They don't need him. The defense is better without him, and they are getting the goals.
- leon neon

I would be sympathetic to your argument on the face of it, but I checked and found to my surprise that Gostisbehere has a relative Corsi that was very high till this year (double digits), and even this year, its well into + range.

In other words, if his presence does make us give up shots, they are more than swamped out by the shots we generate because of his presence on ice.

I would give him another half season at least. His upside is much higher than Hagg, of course, so lets see how he does in AV's system with fully healthy knees.
- PT21

Upside...? Not as a defender. Maybe if you only look at PP points. Besides, his window of potential growth into a superstar is diminishing quickly.

I would be sympathetic to your argument on the face of it, but I checked and found to my surprise that Gostisbehere has a relative Corsi that was very high till this year (double digits), and even this year, its well into + range.

In other words, if his presence does make us give up shots, they are more than swamped out by the shots we generate because of his presence on ice.
- PT21

Ghost gets burnt all the time on defense, so yes he allows the other team to get more shots and goals. The shots generated are not 5-5, PP only.

Also... The Flyers heading into the break without issues and on a winning streak. Why fix what's not broken.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Exhibition Gameday @TOR: 7/28/20 vs. PIT
- bmeltzer

Flyers are playing a home game in Toronto?

Did the roof blow off your arena again?

It'll be interesting to see if Ghost can get back to his rookie year form and be the game-changing dynamic player he once was. Would like to see it but I have a feeling he'll probably end up drafted by the Kraken as JvR's cap hit is probably too much for them to take on in building out a roster.

Ghost gets burnt all the time on defense, so yes he allows the other team to get more shots and goals. The shots generated are not 5-5, PP only.

Also... The Flyers heading into the break without issues and on a winning streak. Why fix what's not broken.
- leon neon

No, he is on the + side in ES as well.

I doubt either he or LIndblom play this post-season unless it is due to injury or a gamble because things are not going well. For Gghost, I was speaking botu next season, really.

Flyers are playing a home game in Toronto?

Did the roof blow off your arena again?
- Atomic Wedgie

Wow. Talk about a dated reference.

Wow. Talk about a dated reference.
- PT21

I'm just getting warmed up.

Want to talk about the Philly Quakers?

Wow. Talk about a dated reference.
- PT21

Looking back, I should have made this a trivia question instead.

I feel shame.

I'm just getting warmed up.

Want to talk about the Philly Quakers?
- Atomic Wedgie

Im partial to the Steegles

Looking back, I should have made this a trivia question instead.

I feel shame.
- Atomic Wedgie

Good. You should.

As for your other question, I did not know. I looked it up.

And now, I need to get back to work before the game starts.

Good. You should.

As for your other question, I did not know. I looked it up.

And now, I need to get back to work before the game starts.
- PT21

The game is actually pretty infamous, as Eddie Shack (playing for the Bruins) and Larry Zeidel had what is generally considered to be the worst stick fight in the history of the league.

Dear Flyers

Please go full NHL 94 on these chumps. It’s been too long.