there is a difference in not taking on the proposed counter-measures, and saying that the guy died because of his own choices.
what information do you have on how/where he got infected anyways?
- MaximusAurelius

Perhaps you can stick to one lane, because now I'm very confused.

Do you:

A) believe that Herman Cain bears some responsibility for his own death due to the irresponsible actions he took, ignoring medical advice; or

B) believe that he is a 100% victim who bears no responsibility?

A or B?

Edit: should have added C) Bobby.

And yet you think a 76 year old cancer survivor, who chose to go to an indoor rally in Tulsa without a mask, and without any kind of social distancing, bears no responsibility for contracting the virus.

You can't have it both ways, Max.

Americans are either idiots for taking medical advice from Trump, or they are responsible for their own actions.

Hint: Cain was not an idiot. He made a calculated risk - with his own health - to further an idiotic political agenda.

He pushed his chips to the centre of the table and lost. Nobody else pushed his chips there.
- Atomic Wedgie

Bingo.

Herman Cain was exercising his "holy 1st amendment rights" to chose for himself. He doubled down on support "Emporer Don".... apparently that was a poor gamble.

But in broad terms, Herman Cain is not an idiot. He's a self made man who made a lot of money out of fast food in the US - that makes him a genius by American standards.

the people who vote for these donkey are the idiots - just a slight clarification Wedgie.

He is a hybrid Alien and he has powers Wedgie; frightening, awful, wonderful powers.
- Aetherial

Just want to point out that Dalton McGuinty was an evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet, years before this latest controversy.

Ontario was waaaaaay ahead of the curve on that one.

Perhaps you can stick to one lane, because now I'm very confused.

Do you:

A) believe that Herman Cain bears some responsibility for his own death due to the irresponsible actions he took, ignoring medical advice; or

B) believe that he is a 100% victim who bears no responsibility?

A or B?

Edit: should have added C) Bobby.
- Atomic Wedgie

Wedgie - you forgot D) the moron response - when you won't commit to either A or B

the Bobbies of this world are part of the reason it's so difficult to contain the spread of the virus.
however, I would never rejoyce from anything bad happening to the Bobbies of this world (unlike our friend the Che Guevarra lover)
- MaximusAurelius

Herman Cain committed suicide. So it's a HB poster that's to blame???

there is a difference in not taking on the proposed counter-measures, and saying that the guy died because of his own choices.
what information do you have on how/where he got infected anyways?
- MaximusAurelius

Uh, his own choices, in this case were to not take on the proposed counter-measures. So, they are the same thing.

Perhaps you can stick to one lane, because now I'm very confused.

Do you:

A) believe that Herman Cain bears some responsibility for his own death due to the irresponsible actions he took, ignoring medical advice; or

B) believe that he is a 100% victim who bears no responsibility?

A or B?

Edit: should have added C) Bobby.
- Atomic Wedgie

in a lot of countries in Europe and I think in parts of Canada as well - people are not wearing masks full-time.
I remember you asking about options to mingle with another family as well (after the strongest part of lock-down was past) - it's a very grey scale and everybody is trying to see what seems reasonable to him/her.
Cain should surely have followed better the recommendations. but to say that he somehow is responsible for his own death it simplistic to say the least - and bad taste in my personal view.

So don't take this as a direct shot at Kristen Shilton, because I think she does a great job. This is a shot at all sports reporters in all sports.

But since her twitter feed is in front of me, here's some memorable quotes she has provided:

Tyson Barrie on William Nylander, sitting to his left: "Willy's nasty. He's got world-class hands and vision and he's so crafty. He'll sneak up on you and grab it and find a guy back-door. Willy is a world-class playmaker."

Nylander: "That's very nice of you, Tys."

- - - - - - - -

Tyson Barrie on life in the bubble: "There's lots of food around, which is nice, so that's good."

- - - - - - - - -

William Nylander on cultivating motivation: "I want to be a dominant player out there. That's my goal every day to go out there and bring it. Sometimes Sheldon has to kick me in the butt, but that's good."

- - - - - - - - - -

Jake Muzzin on #Leafs proving themselves in postseason: "We have a lot of guys in here that are hungry to win. We have some youth, we have some experience and we have an excited group in there, so there's lots to prove going into the playoffs and our team is ready."

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Why do reporters bother to ask these questions? And more importantly, why do reporters continue to report these vanilla answers that provide absolutely no insight whatsoever?

It's filler. It's nothing but filler. And it's lazy.
- Atomic Wedgie

There you go being all sexist again.

in a lot of countries in Europe and I think in parts of Canada as well - people are not wearing masks full-time.
I remember you asking about options to mingle with another family as well (after the strongest part of lock-down was past) - it's a very grey scale and everybody is trying to see what seems reasonable to him/her.
Cain should surely have followed better the recommendations. but to say that he somehow is responsible for his own death it simplistic to say the least - and bad taste in my personal view.
- MaximusAurelius

I feel like it would be my own fault if I did what he did..but thats just me

Good point ....

And just so I'm clear we can't wish Covid on any of the blue jackets, right?
- The Law

No, because that would be wrong.

in a lot of countries in Europe and I think in parts of Canada as well - people are not wearing masks full-time.

- MaximusAurelius

Most reports are that there is 100% compliance across Canada.

I remember you asking about options to mingle with another family as well (after the strongest part of lock-down was past) - it's a very grey scale and everybody is trying to see what seems reasonable to him/her.

- MaximusAurelius

No, you don't remember that, because I never said anything even remotely close to that.

Cain should surely have followed better the recommendations. but to say that he somehow is responsible for his own death it simplistic to say the least - and bad taste in my personal view.
- MaximusAurelius

I said he bears SOME responsibility.

And yet you refused to tick box A or B. Very telling.

It's franking bizarre and laughable that you think Bobby (and the Bobbys of the world) bear some responsibility for the difficulties in controlling the virus, yet Herman Cain - THE DAY BEFORE HIS FRANKING DEATH FROM FRANKING COVID-19 - had a stooge employee continue to sow doubts about the science of COVID-19 on his official twitter account.

Not to mention his very public, vocal opposition to people wearing masks.

I never really had you pegged as a left-winger who was quick to absolve individuals of personal responsibility for their actions.

But hey, Herman Cain is dead, so I guess it's unfair to say that he has any responsibility whatsoever for it.

If he had died in a car crash with a .09 BAC, could we hold him to account then?

- AdamFrench

Exactly.

agree with you, except for the bolded.
scientists mainly publish to get funding - and in general are very very bad in explaining their findings in lay-mans terms.
(and it's why sub-par research sometimes becomes more popular - just because the scientist behind it is a very good public speaker / writer)
- MaximusAurelius

Agree about the culture of favor and funding with publishing.

What I meant was, with the Covid crisis ongoing, many of these journals have opened up access to the public for free. The editors are writing articles and summaries for public consumption, in addition to the usual papers submitted for peer-review. Some have even opened up access to papers that have not passed peer review yet - to speed up scientific access to current data. These papers need to be treated with some measure of caution in regards to their conclusions, since they have not been fully peer-reviewed yet. This varies from journal to journal of course. And this degree of open access probably won't last forever either.

I feel like it would be my own fault if I did what he did..but thats just me
- senstroll

If you went to an event with 1000 people in attendance, ignored all warnings and didn't wear a mask and contracted the virus, how is that your fault?

It's Justin Trudeau's fault, right?

Agree about the culture of favor and funding with publishing.

What I meant was, with the Covid crisis ongoing, many of these journals have opened up access to the public for free. The editors are writing articles and summaries for public consumption, in addition to the usual papers submitted for peer-review. Some have even opened up access to papers that have not passed peer review yet - to speed up scientific access to current data. These papers need to be treated with some measure of caution in regards to their conclusions, since they have not been fully peer-reviewed yet. This varies from journal to journal of course. And this degree of open access probably won't last forever either.
- GalacticStone

A bit off-topic (hallelujah), but there's a fantastic writer called Alex Hutchinson who examines the latest sports medicine and sports performance studies, and then writes a summary so morons like me can understand.

Really, really interesting stuff.

Cain put other people at risk with his actions and his influence as a public figure. I'd prefer if he had survived and recanted his idiocy, but his head on a Covid protein spike does more good than he was doing alive.

Most reports are that there is 100% compliance across Canada.


No, you don't remember that, because I never said anything even remotely close to that.

I said he bears SOME responsibility.

And yet you refused to tick box A or B. Very telling.

It's franking bizarre and laughable that you think Bobby (and the Bobbys of the world) bear some responsibility for the difficulties in controlling the virus, yet Herman Cain - THE DAY BEFORE HIS FRANKING DEATH FROM FRANKING COVID-19 - had a stooge employee continue to sow doubts about the science of COVID-19 on his official twitter account.

Not to mention his very public, vocal opposition to people wearing masks.

I never really had you pegged as a left-winger who was quick to absolve individuals of personal responsibility for their actions.

But hey, Herman Cain is dead, so I guess it's unfair to say that he has any responsibility whatsoever for it.

If he had died in a car crash with a .09 BAC, could we hold him to account then?
- Atomic Wedgie

honest question: wasn't it you that asked whether it would be responsible to have gatherings with one other select family? (a family with kids would be friends with your kid(s) or something like that? and then you said difficult to chose which family to select since kids might prefer different families or something like that?). if not you, it was some other chap on here.

and to your point: we can agree on the fact that Cain didn't make the right decisions re precautios. I guess I felt it was completely out of order to use his death to again attack Trump (we all agree he's a very bad President) - just felt out of place to somehow take Cain's death and use it to criticize US gov't.

A bit off-topic (hallelujah), but there's a fantastic writer called Alex Hutchinson who examines the latest sports medicine and sports performance studies, and then writes a summary so morons like me can understand.

Really, really interesting stuff.
- Atomic Wedgie

I'll check that out. Any good hockey-specific stuff in there?

Virus science is far outside my wheelhouse. So I appreciate it when the experts take the time to write a thoughtful editorial geared towards the public. I wish these usually-arcane journals would continue this practice of writing for the layperson and keeping access open - it's a rare silver lining in this Covid pandemic.

Agree about the culture of favor and funding with publishing.

What I meant was, with the Covid crisis ongoing, many of these journals have opened up access to the public for free. The editors are writing articles and summaries for public consumption, in addition to the usual papers submitted for peer-review. Some have even opened up access to papers that have not passed peer review yet - to speed up scientific access to current data. These papers need to be treated with some measure of caution in regards to their conclusions, since they have not been fully peer-reviewed yet. This varies from journal to journal of course. And this degree of open access probably won't last forever either.
- GalacticStone

yes, you are right on the open access, although more and more funders (at least of medical research) push for open access on work they've funded (Starting with the Gates Foundation).

as for the peer-reviewing - interesting discussions on whether peer-reviewing is the optimal way to assess quality in research (findings and papers) - maybe you appreciate this article on alternative models http://yann.lecun.com/ex/...ts/publishing-models.html (it's about computer science research - but obviously translatable to other areas)

honest question: wasn't it you that asked whether it would be responsible to have gatherings with one other select family? (a family with kids would be friends with your kid(s) or something like that? and then you said difficult to chose which family to select since kids might prefer different families or something like that?). if not you, it was some other chap on here.

- MaximusAurelius

I said something to the effect that it's going to be a difficult choice for a lot of families with multiple children (including mine), because selecting family A with a child that socializes with your one kid over selecting family B with a child that socializes with your other kid will cause fights and resentment.

At no time did I suggest that anyone break rules.

and to your point: we can agree on the fact that Cain didn't make the right decisions re precautios. I guess I felt it was completely out of order to use his death to again attack Trump (we all agree he's a very bad President) - just felt out of place to somehow take Cain's death and use it to criticize US gov't.
- MaximusAurelius

Cain was consistently onside with a government that has denied the science for political gain. His death does not absolve him of blame.

He has blood on his hands. The fact that some of that blood is now his own is not a reason to forgive him for it.

A bit off-topic (hallelujah), but there's a fantastic writer called Alex Hutchinson who examines the latest sports medicine and sports performance studies, and then writes a summary so morons like me can understand.

Really, really interesting stuff.
- Atomic Wedgie

you mean a summary like 'hockey good, stick hit puck and puck go in net"

I'll check that out. Any good hockey-specific stuff in there?

- GalacticStone

I don't think he has written much on hockey. Most of his stuff is on endurance sports, especially running and cycling.

He used to have a regular column in Runners' World, but the magazine was gutted a few years ago. He still has a regular column in Outside, and the occasional one in Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail (with firewall).

He's also written a couple of books.

Virus science is far outside my wheelhouse. So I appreciate it when the experts take the time to write a thoughtful editorial geared towards the public. I wish these usually-arcane journals would continue this practice of writing for the layperson and keeping access open - it's a rare silver lining in this Covid pandemic.
- GalacticStone

This is what makes Alex Hutchinson so damn good. He can take incredibly complex studies and spit out something I can understand.

It's not an easy thing to do.

I said something to the effect that it's going to be a difficult choice for a lot of families with multiple children (including mine), because selecting family A with a child that socializes with your one kid over selecting family B with a child that socializes with your other kid will cause fights and resentment.

At no time did I suggest that anyone break rules.


Cain was consistently onside with a government that has denied the science for political gain. His death does not absolve him of blame.

He has blood on his hands. The fact that some of that blood is now his own is not a reason to forgive him for it.
- Atomic Wedgie

i didn't mean to criticize you (make any judgment on the family picking thing) whatsoever - i thought at the time you did ask a very reasonable question.

as for the science - it's changing rapidly, and by no means whatsoever was it 100% pushed early June that masks should be worn in public at all times (contrary to logic). there are still quite a few countries in Europe that do not recommend/oblige use of masks in public (hello second wave in October!).

you have to remember as well that early March, when Trump was suggesting to close the US from China flights coming in, lots of comments of 'racist!' came out.

so his life didnt matter to you?
- drexel

While i take no comfort in him dying.
This seems like it was self inflicted due to ignorance and complete stupidity.

Its too bad his family has to go through this as a result of his actions.