That’s a whole other discussion and I’ve put way to much time and energy into hockeybuzz for one evening.
- Cptmjl

Be safe 👍

Me going over the process of diagnosis, isolation, treatment for a minority patient in their 70’s accomplishes what exactly? As you said let’s not digress. Wowza.
- Cptmjl

I will ignore the first part of your post because it is tangential to discussions.

This is what the quoted part of your post above accomplishes.

Remember the issue was the fact that recorded Covid deaths are at a rate 30 times that of recorded H1N1 deaths. You claimed that this was due to over-classification of deaths as Covid when they were due to other causes because of financial incentives.

I claimed that such widespread, systematic mis-classification would be essentially impossible. That is largely because a specific disease has a specific set of tests, imaging and treatment protocols associated with it. In the case of Covid, there is also the issue of quarantine for those socially traced. To fake this protocol with another, and to do it in the hundreds of thousands, well, that would be quite the feat.

But I will make it easy for you. Lets take another poster's example, Ssay a Covid patient has a heart attack. Lets go even further and say the heart attack has nothing to do with the Covid. The Covid positive test is a fact, but it has nothing to do with the death.

Would you say this would be a very representative example of the kind of mis-classification you speak of? Would you add in further diseases like Pneumonia and flu in addition to heart attack perhaps as examples to support your point?

Yeah I’m not someone who has a casual approach when it comes to protecting myself from this virus. Quite the opposite actually. Wasn’t trying to give that impression. Everyone has their own opinions which is fine and who knows if we’ll all hear ALL of the truth. Most likely not.
- Cptmjl

In Canada politics nearly stopped at first with the virus. Parties worked together to come up with response plans etc. Grudges between state (province) and federal were put on the back burner.

I live in the Atlantic bubble as they call it now, and we don't let many people in from outside and they're under strict guidelines. We still get the occasional case related to travel but with self isolation, distancing, contact tracing the R factor is very low. We're at day 15 without a new case this time in our province, and aside from one outbreak linked to a doctor have had only a handful of cases since May.

Actually there is plenty of evidence to suggest that coronavirus does attack organs.

Also, pneumonia is one complication of AIDS. It stems from lack of immune response.
- golfingsince

I'll explain it another way. In the scenario I offered, the heart disease existed before the patient was infected with Covid-19. It is not a complication of the disease.

You just agreed with a Marxist argument.

The outcome of that conundrum is where the human proclivity for mischief, evil, and the abuse of power comes in. None of us trust the other side because we project our worst fears on to them, and we know that those in the other tribe have the capacity to inflict great pain. It has happened for eons when there is a rotation in the seat of power.

The right is petrified right now because the left is nearing the ascendency.
- Only_A_Ladd

That's not why the right is petrified.

That's not why the right is petrified.
- MJL

Go on

I'll explain it another way. In the scenario I offered, the heart disease existed before the patient was infected with Covid-19. It is not a complication of the disease.
- MJL

OK, an underlying medical condition.

Many people have underlying medical conditions, some aren't even aware of theirs yet.

Yes the person has heart disease, the virus still played it's part.

Ek is using BLM as a distraction for the real tragedy... he promised a rumour chart like 12 days ago but has nothing to report. He floated his top rumour that was apparently mentioned by THREE top sources...that all the teams who are unable to sign Torey Krug will turn to the summer consolation prize named Cody Ceci. After that was ridiculed he is working tirelessly to fill the rumour chart with more plausible ideas. More to come..

OK, an underlying medical condition.

Many people have underlying medical conditions, some aren't even aware of theirs yet.

Yes the person has heart disease, the virus still played it's part.
- golfingsince

Of course it did. No one is saying it didn't. The point is what did he die from? Covid-19 or heart disease? Or both. Even if a patient was not tested but had symptoms of Covid and was assumed to have it, it is counted as a Covid death. As directed by the CDC.

Of course it did. No one is saying it didn't. The point is what did he die from? Covid-19 or heart disease? Or both. Even if a patient was not tested but had symptoms of Covid and was assumed to have it, it is counted as a Covid death. As directed by the CDC.
- MJL

Kinda seems like the only answer doesn't it?

As for the CDC death count directive it certainly seemed like a reasonable ask early on in NYC when testing wasn't readily available. There's no reason now for them not to test anyone with symptoms is there?

There's a thousand plus americans dying every day from Covid-19, how many do you think are not legit?

I SERVED IN VIET NAM AND BY KNEELING YOU ARE DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG! THINK OF ANOTHER WAY. ALL YOU BOYS ARE SUPPOSE TO BE EDUCATED!

Kinda seems like the only answer doesn't it?

As for the CDC death count directive it certainly seemed like a reasonable ask early on in NYC when testing wasn't readily available. There's no reason now for them not to test anyone with symptoms is there?

There's a thousand plus americans dying every day from Covid-19, how many do you think are not legit?
- golfingsince

We don't know how many. Just like we truly don't know how many have been infected.

We don't know how many. Just like we truly don't know how many have been infected.
- MJL

So maybe take a page from history and be precautionary. Spouting BS about fake deaths is irresponsible, especially when none of us know the true figures. Like I said earlier, we might not have that data for another year.

Of course it did. No one is saying it didn't. The point is what did he die from? Covid-19 or heart disease? Or both. Even if a patient was not tested but had symptoms of Covid and was assumed to have it, it is counted as a Covid death. As directed by the CDC.
- MJL

Since the other poster has very wisely retired, allow me to correct you on what is a well known problem with this line of discussion.

Let us say such mis-classification was happening, because of intent, or because of CDC directives, or because of financial incentives due to Medicare payments or any such thing.

Let me even give you the possibility the heart attack had nothing to do with Covid.

Because of Covid social restrictions, infectious disease spread such as flu was also obviously restricted. So were deaths due to car accidents. Now, it is entirely possible some deaths occurred because people with other conditions could not get treatment in time, but I am sure we all agree that this will be a small %. Because hospitals here never reached the crisis conditions of Lombardy. If someone was critically ill from anything, they would have gotten care.

Here is the problem: the # of total deaths saw a huge, huge jump this year, more than any year demographers are aware of without explanations, far more than can be explained by random variations. This is even though deaths by car accidents are down, and deaths by flu are not abnormal. I am talking in the realm of hundreds of thousands.

If the actual causes of death were heart attack, or pneumonia or flu, there would be no reason for those deaths to jump so much.

Here is an article in a journal:
https://jamanetwork.com/j...icine/fullarticle/2767980

Here is the NYT write-up with more up to date stats and pictures:
https://www.nytimes.com/i...avirus-death-toll-us.html

It is widely known that Covid deaths are not being over-counted. They are undercounted by a huge number, like 50,000 odd. This is because people die at home from what they think is the flu and never end up getting the test.

https://www.cidrap.umn.ed...ay-not-be-classified-such

If the actual causes of death were heart attack, or pneumonia or flu, there would be no reason for those deaths to jump so much.


- PT21

My youtube university medical degree allows me to believe that heart attacks did jump substantially, though not enough to make up most of those numbers.

This virus has caused a lot of stress.

I SERVED IN VIET NAM AND BY KNEELING YOU ARE DISRESPECTING OUR FLAG! THINK OF ANOTHER WAY. ALL YOU BOYS ARE SUPPOSE TO BE EDUCATED!
- pozone

OK, Boomer

That's not why the right is petrified.
- MJL

Because the right is scared the left will take their sh*t, raise taxes (and start taxing churches), make cancel culture canon, etc.?

My youtube university medical degree allows me to believe that heart attacks did jump substantially, though not enough to make up most of those numbers.

This virus has caused a lot of stress.
- golfingsince

😁

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/...covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Here is a more granular presentation of the data. You will see that estimates of the most common causes of death, including circulatory ones, did not rise by much.

So maybe take a page from history and be precautionary. Spouting BS about fake deaths is irresponsible, especially when none of us know the true figures. Like I said earlier, we might not have that data for another year.
- golfingsince

Lol. The deaths certainly aren't fake. No idea where you're getting that from. The question is how many from Covid.

Since the other poster has very wisely retired, allow me to correct you on what is a well known problem with this line of discussion.

Let us say such mis-classification was happening, because of intent, or because of CDC directives, or because of financial incentives due to Medicare payments or any such thing.

Let me even give you the possibility the heart attack had nothing to do with Covid.

Because of Covid social restrictions, infectious disease spread such as flu was also obviously restricted. So were deaths due to car accidents. Now, it is entirely possible some deaths occurred because people with other conditions could not get treatment in time, but I am sure we all agree that this will be a small %. Because hospitals here never reached the crisis conditions of Lombardy. If someone was critically ill from anything, they would have gotten care.

Here is the problem: the # of total deaths saw a huge, huge jump this year, more than any year demographers are aware of without explanations, far more than can be explained by random variations. This is even though deaths by car accidents are down, and deaths by flu are not abnormal. I am talking in the realm of hundreds of thousands.

If the actual causes of death were heart attack, or pneumonia or flu, there would be no reason for those deaths to jump so much.

Here is an article in a journal:
https://jamanetwork.com/j...icine/fullarticle/2767980

Here is the NYT write-up with more up to date stats and pictures:
https://www.nytimes.com/i...avirus-death-toll-us.html

It is widely known that Covid deaths are not being over-counted. They are undercounted by a huge number, like 50,000 odd. This is because people die at home from what they think is the flu and never end up getting the test.

https://www.cidrap.umn.ed...ay-not-be-classified-such
- PT21

That’s great. Yeah I did retire from our conversation but not for the reasons you’re insinuating. It’s impossible to have a discussion like this with someone who has limited to no knowledge of the topic. You have proved that in just about every one of your posts. You just can’t talk about what you don’t know and you clearly don’t. Along with you ignoring any counter point or fact that I stated. It’s an effort in futility. So yes I wisely retired from our conversation for those reasons so hey there you go. You were right about something tonight. Guess you can hang you’re hat on that for the evening. Btw, being a pompous arse doesn’t make you seem any more intelligent or your opinion any more valid. Quite the contrary.

😁

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/...covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Here is a more granular presentation of the data. You will see that estimates of the most common causes of death, including circulatory ones, did not rise by much.
- PT21

Thanks for the link though, great leisure reading. Interesting that they're taking data from Feb 1. I'm interested to go through it month by month. The first confirmed case was what Jan 22? 26?

Lol. The deaths certainly aren't fake. No idea where you're getting that from. The question is how many from Covid.
- MJL

I had to specify fake Covid deaths? C'mon, you know exactly where i'm getting it from.

Since the other poster has very wisely retired, allow me to correct you on what is a well known problem with this line of discussion.

Let us say such mis-classification was happening, because of intent, or because of CDC directives, or because of financial incentives due to Medicare payments or any such thing.

Let me even give you the possibility the heart attack had nothing to do with Covid.

Because of Covid social restrictions, infectious disease spread such as flu was also obviously restricted. So were deaths due to car accidents. Now, it is entirely possible some deaths occurred because people with other conditions could not get treatment in time, but I am sure we all agree that this will be a small %. Because hospitals here never reached the crisis conditions of Lombardy. If someone was critically ill from anything, they would have gotten care.

Here is the problem: the # of total deaths saw a huge, huge jump this year, more than any year demographers are aware of without explanations, far more than can be explained by random variations. This is even though deaths by car accidents are down, and deaths by flu are not abnormal. I am talking in the realm of hundreds of thousands.

If the actual causes of death were heart attack, or pneumonia or flu, there would be no reason for those deaths to jump so much.

Here is an article in a journal:
https://jamanetwork.com/j...icine/fullarticle/2767980

Here is the NYT write-up with more up to date stats and pictures:
https://www.nytimes.com/i...avirus-death-toll-us.html

It is widely known that Covid deaths are not being over-counted. They are undercounted by a huge number, like 50,000 odd. This is because people die at home from what they think is the flu and never end up getting the test.

https://www.cidrap.umn.ed...ay-not-be-classified-such
- PT21

Just one example.

https://papost.org/2020/0...ng-process-data-accuracy/

OK, Boomer
- Only_A_Ladd

In other words, you can't begin to contemplate what he said.

That’s great. Yeah I did retire from our conversation but not for the reasons you’re insinuating. It’s impossible to have a discussion like this with someone who has limited to no knowledge of the topic. You have proved that in just about every one of your posts. You just can’t talk about what you don’t know and you clearly don’t. Along with you ignoring any counter point or fact that I stated. It’s an effort in futility. So yes I wisely retired from our conversation for those reasons so hey there you go. You were right about something tonight. Guess you can hang you’re hat on that for the evening. Btw, being a pompous arse doesn’t make you seem any more intelligent or your opinion any more valid. Quite the contrary.
- Cptmjl

I will ignore the rant and evasive insults.

To summarize, your original contention was that Covid 19 deaths were over-inflated by a factor of 30 when compared to H1N1 deaths

When pressed on precisely how such mis-dagnosis was occurring, your response was... nothing. That is largely because you have nothing except wild references to medical billing codes.

Similarly, you have nothing when pointed out that prestigious journals in the medical field believe Covid deaths are being grotesquely under-counted and that total deaths rose by a huge #. But then, I have no doubt that's a conspiracy too.


And now that this discussion is over and my point is made, here is finally the response to your point about lung scans. Earlier you said:

"Lung scans”? I’m assuming you mean a chest CT or CTA? Lung scan? That’s a new one never heard that one before."

https://www.hopkinsmedici...s-and-therapies/lung-scan

Have a nice night.