what, you think i'm wrong?

my favorite part is that they have ZERO cap space to make this team better, and are going to lose players for nothing as a result.

you guys are (frank)ed, you have half your cap tied up in 4 players which is crippling the team from actually improving.

but sure......they're legit contenders.
- haywoodjablome

C'mon fella. You cant really base the quality of a team on 3 games back after this long lay-off. Now, that said, I am in the camp that Dubas has NOT done a good job of constructing this team...too much Cap on too few players, and too many of the same "type" of player....to much pure offence, not enough grit. A good regular season roster, but not built for a 4 round (five round) playoff run.

Still, Look at the results thus far. HaplessHabs up 2 to 1 over much better Pens team. Oilers down 2-1 to a brutally bad Hawks team.

No, the Leafs are flawed (IMO anyway)....but I wouldn't base all my decisions on these 3 games ..... or even how this series plays out. If Leafs lose, or win....they need changes, need to move a Marner or Nylander or Kapanen or a couple like that and find a Stud D-man. maybe a good grinding winger or two. Not easy, I know. But, just can't see this roster going through 3-4 BETTER teams like Boston and TB to get to the promised land. Close....but 2-3 players away yet....

you're right, they can move any player, but either they'll never get equal value on the return, or it won't clear up enough cap space to matter.

this team is going to swim in the pool of mediocrity for years.......will never be bad enough to tank, but will never be good enough to contend.
- haywoodjablome

I think you are wrong.

Less can be more. Sometimes a team has too many lead dancers and not enough quality in the chorus line.

The Leafs would be a better team if the added more 3rd and 4th line depth. Add another Muzzin. Too many stars confuses the plot lines.

Barrie f'd up on the gwg...he has plenty of those types of plays a game.
- senstroll

There is no doubt, Barrie has a lil "Gardiner" in him. Was not the upgrade over Gardiner I thought he would be. Just a slightly better, but very similar version....

I think this is essentially true. Plus, Dubashas been very clever in the way he has front end loaded bonus payments. It means another team can do a deal that has much lower actual cash pay out on the back end of the contract. This is going to make some players especially attractive to other teams.

However, there will be at least 10 teams needing to shed salary because of the cap. There are teams in worse shape than the Leafs (eg., Tampa, St Louis) because they need to sign significant UFA or RFA players without the cap space to do it. There are about 10 teams in the middle that can make minor adjustments to stay within the cap.

And there are another 10 teams that have created huge cap space and built up draft picks with a view to doing deals and preparing for the leverage opportunities that will come from the protection lists out of the Seattle draft.

So, I think you are right in the sense that Dubas should be able to move players. On the other hand, he may have to discount the price in order to move a specific contract. I think Dubas can get a mid to late first round pick for Nylander or Marner. Nylander might be easier to move because most teams will be scared off by the negative vibes Marner's $11m cap hit causes for their own team's salary structure.
- spatso

this is just a Toronto thing for some reason, if another team had Nylander or Marner for some reason they wouldnt have to discount them to move them.

Nylander is paid 6m real money for the rest of his deal, and Marner 8.5 avg

anyways, I think the most likley to be moved is Kap and/or Johnsson..which would give them just enough space to get by, and if a good deal fell in thier lap for Nylander, they would move him

C'mon fella. You cant really base the quality of a team on 3 games back after this long lay-off. Now, that said, I am in the camp that Dubas has NOT done a good job of constructing this team...too much Cap on too few players, and too many of the same "type" of player....to much pure offence, not enough grit. A good regular season roster, but not built for a 4 round (five round) playoff run.

Still, Look at the results thus far. HaplessHabs up 2 to 1 over much better Pens team. Oilers down 2-1 to a brutally bad Hawks team.

No, the Leafs are flawed (IMO anyway)....but I wouldn't base all my decisions on these 3 games ..... or even how this series plays out. If Leafs lose, or win....they need changes, need to move a Marner or Nylander or Kapanen or a couple like that and find a Stud D-man. maybe a good grinding winger or two. Not easy, I know. But, just can't see this roster going through 3-4 BETTER teams like Boston and TB to get to the promised land. Close....but 2-3 players away yet....
- hawk35

A+

There is no doubt, Barrie has a lil "Gardiner" in him. Was not the upgrade over Gardiner I thought he would be. Just a slightly better, but very similar version....
- hawk35

The deal for Brodie/Jankowski for Kadri may have been a better deal...in hindsight.

this is just a Toronto thing for some reason, if another team had Nylander or Marner for some reason they wouldnt have to discount them to move them.

Nylander is paid 6m real money for the rest of his deal, and Marner 8.5 avg

anyways, I think the most likley to be moved is Kap and/or Johnsson..which would give them just enough space to get by, and if a good deal fell in thier lap for Nylander, they would move him
- senstroll

There are about 10 teams that need to move contracts in order to sign some of their own players and remain under the cap.

Other teams are in worse shape than the Leafs.

this is just a Toronto thing for some reason, if another team had Nylander or Marner for some reason they wouldnt have to discount them to move them.

Nylander is paid 6m real money for the rest of his deal, and Marner 8.5 avg

anyways, I think the most likley to be moved is Kap and/or Johnsson..which would give them just enough space to get by, and if a good deal fell in thier lap for Nylander, they would move him
- senstroll

I really don't want anyone getting traded unless we can sign Pietrangelo.

Then Marner or Nylander can go IDGAF.

Edit: I should say any of the top 4 forwards or Riellybeing traded. Everyone else can go if need be.

The deal for Brodie/Jankowski for Kadri may have been a better deal...in hindsight.
- senstroll

Absolutely...easily better. Heck, Kerfoot is OK, but a downgrade from Kadri.

Brodie and Janikowski would certainly have been a better return.

Dubas is a mole.

There are about 10 teams that need to move contracts in order to sign some of their own players and remain under the cap.

Other teams are in worse shape than the Leafs.
- spatso

TB and NYI are in worse spots currently.
that about it.

I think this is essentially true. Plus, Dubashas been very clever in the way he has front end loaded bonus payments. It means another team can do a deal that has much lower actual cash pay out on the back end of the contract. This is going to make some players especially attractive to other teams.

However, there will be at least 10 teams needing to shed salary because of the cap. There are teams in worse shape than the Leafs (eg., Tampa, St Louis) because they need to sign significant UFA or RFA players without the cap space to do it. There are about 10 teams in the middle that can make minor adjustments to stay within the cap.

And there are another 10 teams that have created huge cap space and built up draft picks with a view to doing deals and preparing for the leverage opportunities that will come from the protection lists out of the Seattle draft.

So, I think you are right in the sense that Dubas should be able to move players. On the other hand, he may have to discount the price in order to move a specific contract. I think Dubas can get a mid to late first round pick for Nylander or Marner. Nylander might be easier to move because most teams will be scared off by the negative vibes Marner's $11m cap hit causes for their own team's salary structure.
- spatso

The fack?

A late first for MM?

What would Eichel or Panarin or Rantanen fetch in a trade?

I really don't want anyone getting traded unless we can sign Pietrangelo.

Then Marner or Nylander can go IDGAF.

Edit: I should say any of the top 4 forwards or Riellybeing traded. Everyone else can go if need be.
- Leafs43

pretty much the only decent scenario
Sign AP, Trade one of Kap/Johnsson (Roberson slides in), and then Trade Willie for a good young prospect and a 1st

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Anderson
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Tippett
Barabanov-Engvall-Spezza

Rielly-Pesce
Muzzin-Ekblad
Sandin-Holl


Leafs win Cup. I still get called childish. Everyone is happy.



The coffee I had earlier kicked in...



Trades:

Nylander+Liljegren for Ekblad+Tippett (Why not?)


Kapanen+Dermott for Pesce+2020 2nd (Bingo can suck it)


Johnsson for Anderson (I fear Anderson will turn into Clarkson 2.0, but (frank) it)
- Steven_Seagull

Okay I will but you still can't have Pesce for that.

what, you think i'm wrong?

my favorite part is that they have ZERO cap space to make this team better, and are going to lose players for nothing as a result.

you guys are (frank)ed, you have half your cap tied up in 4 players which is crippling the team from actually improving.

but sure......they're legit contenders.
- haywoodjablome

Yes. They do. They have 0 contracts they can';t move. Majority of NHl teams are also at the cap max.

And they 4 contracst only kicked-in this year yet they had even better statistical depth. It's not that at all.

Okay I will but you still can't have Pesce for that.
- BINGO!

This is fantasy land.

We can have whatever we want for whatever we want.

Okay I will but you still can't have Pesce for that.
- BINGO!

I still wonder if the Canes were willing to move Pesce last summer. If so then probably asking for Willie.

Dubas may consider something like that now.

Pesce is really good, not elite and fans will say it's not enough but Pesce at 4 Milly for the next 4 years is GREAT value in the Cap world.

pretty much the only decent scenario
Sign AP, Trade one of Kap/Johnsson (Roberson slides in), and then Trade Willie for a good young prospect and a 1st
- senstroll

Team fixed.

I really don't want anymore plug defenseman. Rielly/Pietrangelo would be something we haven't had in well over a decade. A legitimate top pairing defense pair.

Gotta convince Pietrangelo to come here though.

I think this is essentially true. Plus, Dubashas been very clever in the way he has front end loaded bonus payments. It means another team can do a deal that has much lower actual cash pay out on the back end of the contract. This is going to make some players especially attractive to other teams.

However, there will be at least 10 teams needing to shed salary because of the cap. There are teams in worse shape than the Leafs (eg., Tampa, St Louis) because they need to sign significant UFA or RFA players without the cap space to do it. There are about 10 teams in the middle that can make minor adjustments to stay within the cap.

And there are another 10 teams that have created huge cap space and built up draft picks with a view to doing deals and preparing for the leverage opportunities that will come from the protection lists out of the Seattle draft.

So, I think you are right in the sense that Dubas should be able to move players. On the other hand, he may have to discount the price in order to move a specific contract. I think Dubas can get a mid to late first round pick for Nylander or Marner. Nylander might be easier to move because most teams will be scared off by the negative vibes Marner's $11m cap hit causes for their own team's salary structure.
- spatso

Is there a rule that says Leaf players are worth less in trades than players of the 30 other teams that I am not aware of? Because on no other team are they worth that and you know it.

Team fixed.

I really don't want anymore plug defenseman. Rielly/Pietrangelo would be something we haven't had in well over a decade. A legitimate top pairing defense pair.

Gotta convince Pietrangelo to come here though.
- Leafs43

COVID occurring is the only reason we could potentially get Pietro. He won't get his 7 or 8 year offers anymore.

I still wonder if the Canes were willing to move Pesce last summer. If so then probably asking for Willie.

Dubas may consider something like that now.

Pesce is really good, not elite and fans will say it's not enough but Pesce at 4 Milly for the next 4 years is GREAT value in the Cap world.
- The Law

Pesce is not the answer at all. That would not be a wise move.

The fack?

A late first for MM?

What would Eichel or Panarin or Rantanen fetch in a trade?
- The Law

90 point forwards are a dime a dozen. Everyone knows this.

Team fixed.

I really don't want anymore plug defenseman. Rielly/Pietrangelo would be something we haven't had in well over a decade. A legitimate top pairing defense pair.

Gotta convince Pietrangelo to come here though.
- Leafs43

I think you sign AP at 9 or 10 and you'll have Cap issues on D. Rielly becomes difficult to re-sign in 2 years.

IMO, Marner's 11 Milly would have to go for sure.

A couple of solid top 4 RHD to play with Rielly and Sandin for the next 4-5 years sounds like the best plan to me.

COVID occurring is the only reason we could potentially get Pietro. He won't get his 7 or 8 year offers anymore.
- RogerRoeper

Agree on Covid. Pietrangelo was probably going to get the Doughty contract if Covid never happened.

If the leafs can get him, it will likely be a 7 year deal where he gets massive bonus money in the first three or four years and the cap hit stays around 8 million.

But I have no idea. Going to be a weird off season.

The fack?

A late first for MM?

What would Eichel or Panarin or Rantanen fetch in a trade?
- The Law

First, there are not many teams that are positioned to take advantage of Marner being made available. Leading contenders would be the usual suspects including Detroit, New Jersey and Ottawa in the East. LA and Anaheim in the West. I don't see any of them wanting to impose an $11m hit over top of their salary structure.

Nylander makes a lot more sense. Kapanen even more for a rebuilding team.