That's another concern and reason that the team needs crawford at his A game in order to have a chance. That's my point is no team is perfect but having a goalie make the saves he should and even making those he shouldn't is what helps a team move forward
- Taylorst1

It is also making the saves to keep your team in the game, even if you let a bad one in. Crawford is one of the best at that.

Vegas is the better team nobody here will dispute that. MAF while he has struggled he also hasn't sat out 2 seasons with multiple concussions.

Crawford throughout this series has shown signs of something wrong like falling behind the net with nobody around .

Going back to each teams depth , while maf has struggled he is still considered a very good goalie and having lehner who is also a extremely talented goalie , who does Chicago have if Crawford cant improve his game ?

In 36 games played crawford has lost 20 games and won 16 those are the only numbers in the end that matter wins and losses.

Right now lehner is the healthier goalie going into this series , now if come game 1 and 2 Crawford plays lights out like he has in years past I'll then concede that he is back to his form. But I'm just not convinced he or this team based on the last round can get things going more consistently.
- Taylorst1

I'm not, and no one else is, disputing that Vegas is the better team on paper. That is not the argument taking place here. The problem that I have is that you continually state that Lehner (and now MAF) are better goalies that Crawford. By what metric? You now bring record into the fray. Fine I'm willing to hash that out. Is Connor Hellybuck a better goalie than Price, Bishop, Rask? He's got more wins. I'm not BY ANY MEANS saying that W-L doesn't or shouldn't be factored in, but you have to look at the entire picture.

Again, Lehner had worse numbers than Crow behind the same team, yet he had a better won loss record. Why? I would say a lot had to do with the goal support each received.

I'm not trying to convince you that Crawford is good/great/whatever. I'm trying to explain that you are applying different standards to the exact same argument for each goalie.

Paraphrasing:
"Crawford hasn't played well recently so he isn't that good."
"MAF hasn't played well recently, but he has in the past so he could do it again."

Fact: The Hawks are definitely the underdog in this series.
Fact: Goalie play will have a lot to do with the outcome.
Fiction: We can discern all that much about the readiness, or current ability of these goalies after 4 games (at most).

Just going back to reinforce my earlier comments going into the series, Edmonton was beatable. The media and lots of folks didn't give the Hawks enough respect. We have the personnel to be better than 12th seed would indicate and it showed vs Edmonton. Don't get me wrong, this isn't the cup winning team, but our players are capable of competing with most teams on a nightly basis.

Also, Crawford (rightly so) got a lot of praise for his finish to the series, but not to sound cliche, but that was a team effort. Clearing pucks, tying up sticks, preventing some dangerous chances. The Hawks are getting more of that effort and it can be such a difference. With CC finally having some games and getting up to speed, the Hawks have the potential to make it a real fight with Vegas. Here is hoping they put up a good fight.
- breadbag

I share the same perspective, breadbag. It will be a tough series, no doubt, but the Hawks can make it a series if they compete, play a team game, and defend a full 60 minutes.

Let Vegas earn every inch and earn any wins they get. Don't giftwrap things to them. That will make for a content fan: win or lose, compete so that the youngsters continue to grow and know what it takes to be championship caliber.

If Nylander does the disappearing act like he did in game 2 and 3, coincidentally game 2 Caggs being suspended and the only game the Hawks lost in that series, we might see Hagel.

Just to add, we need Strome to play well, tough in the corners, and the face off circle
- BetweenTheDots

Problem is he has never shown that ability... not sure Hagel and Caggs would be much help. He is too slow to keep up with them and his best asset is setting up teamates. Neither of those guys really have the offensive prowess to benefit from Strome's skillset.

He is really only useful with Kane and Dcat.

Maybe Dach can cover for Nylander's 3-4 gaffs a game defensively.

Nylander Dach Hagel would be interesting.

I share the same perspective, breadbag. It will be a tough series, no doubt, but the Hawks can make it a series if they compete, play a team game, and defend a full 60 minutes.

Let Vegas earn every inch and earn any wins they get. Don't giftwrap things to them. That will make for a content fan: win or lose, compete so that the youngsters continue to grow and know what it takes to be championship caliber.
- AEL_Fox

It definitely feels like playing Vegas will be more of a grind. They are a hard working team and they they were very good at limiting shots on goal. They had a ~9 shot positive differential down the stretch leading the NHL is shots per game and leading with fewest shots against. The one thing to watch for, is they had the absolute worst PK in that span too. If the Hawks can keep their PP effective like it was for much of the Edmonton series, that could go a long way.

With the Big 10 expected to cancel the fall season, this will have implications on ice hockey teams.

I didn't know this but the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds have Caufield's rights. So he is either playing in juniors or with the Habs AHL team in Laval.

Implications on the Blackhawks is D prospect Ess also at Wisconsin. Not sure what his options are but he's very low on the depth chart.

Other NCAA prospects to keep an eye on: Demin (Denver), Slavin and Basse (Colorado College), Wise and Vlasic (Boston U), Foo (Union College).

The Knights will be a tougher match-up defensively. They don't have the McDavids, but they have more depth and they have second change the first two games - guaranteed to have the match-ups they want. Plus Ryan Reeves and Engelland taking the body early and often on Toews, Kane, Dach, Kubalik, Debrincat and the defensemen.

The good news - if Lehner is in net, those Hawk breakaway chances may ring the bell a bit more often.

The Hawks will probably be fortunate to win one game, especially if they wind up having to dig into their depth because of injuries.

Please scratch Nylander.

Calling it now the Hawks and Coyotes both pull major upsets leaving the west wide open.

This team has an intangible from it's veterans that is missing from a lot of teams (looking at you Toronto), is heart, and a will to win. Even 2 X Stanley Cup winner Olli Matta has stepped up his game in the playoffs. I didn't see too many mistakes, and a lot of good plays from him. McDavid made him look silly, but he has done that to every defenseman in the league. He hasn't made any Morgan Reilly gaffs out there (wonder if he will now get the Jake Gardiner treatment in Toronto).
- LAHawk

For me its experience. The vets know what they have to do and what they have to sacrifice to win playoff games.

I believe you always have a chance with a great goalie. He doesn't get the press like other goalies but I'll take his 51-38 playoff record over a guy who's 4-5 and just can't seem to stick around with any team.

I'm not, and no one else is, disputing that Vegas is the better team on paper. That is not the argument taking place here. The problem that I have is that you continually state that Lehner (and now MAF) are better goalies that Crawford. By what metric? You now bring record into the fray. Fine I'm willing to hash that out. Is Connor Hellybuck a better goalie than Price, Bishop, Rask? He's got more wins. I'm not BY ANY MEANS saying that W-L doesn't or shouldn't be factored in, but you have to look at the entire picture.

Again, Lehner had worse numbers than Crow behind the same team, yet he had a better won loss record. Why? I would say a lot had to do with the goal support each received.

I'm not trying to convince you that Crawford is good/great/whatever. I'm trying to explain that you are applying different standards to the exact same argument for each goalie.

Paraphrasing:
"Crawford hasn't played well recently so he isn't that good."
"MAF hasn't played well recently, but he has in the past so he could do it again."

Fact: The Hawks are definitely the underdog in this series.
Fact: Goalie play will have a lot to do with the outcome.
Fiction: We can discern all that much about the readiness, or current ability of these goalies after 4 games (at most).
- Chunk

I'm pointingnlut that vegas is a deeper team and has 2 starting goalies one of which has won multiple cups the other has played outstanding.


Crawford while everyone promotes his past history I'd just remind everyone he had 2 concussions and nearly 2 seasons he didn't play. He hasn't looked as strong in the net and looking at how vegas dominated their 3 games without some of their key players chicago defense hasn't been solid all season long and the teams inconsistency put vegas as the stronger odds on favorite to win.

I'm pointingnlut that vegas is a deeper team and has 2 starting goalies one of which has won multiple cups the other has played outstanding.


Crawford while everyone promotes his past history I'd just remind everyone he had 2 concussions and nearly 2 seasons he didn't play. He hasn't looked as strong in the net and looking at how vegas dominated their 3 games without some of their key players chicago defense hasn't been solid all season long and the teams inconsistency put vegas as the stronger odds on favorite to win.
- Taylorst1

And how many serious concussions has MAF had? I can count at least 3, 2 with Pitt. and one with the Knights. How do you think MAF ended up in Vegas in the first place? Because Fleury was so often injured that Matt Murray backstopped them to 2 cups.

I wouldn't rate crawfords performance all that great he has let in quite a few questionable goals and his last performance albeit better still wasn't anything we've seen him raise his game to the level needed .


Also I'm just pointing out that MAF while he did struggle he has also in years past played outstanding a d won multiple cups, so if he is called upon he is still considered a number 1 goalie who has won in the past playing on a extremely good and deep team compared to chicago.

Cat , nylander , strome and even saad all need to produce and Chicago cant afford any costly errors against vegas.

Chicago defense isn't as good as vegas defense which means Crawford will need to bring his A game more so to give Chicago any chance.

That's all I'm saying is Chicago got by Edmonton but players we need to step up haven't. Even kane was quiet and that's expected if he has no support from his linemates.
- Taylorst1

It is going to ebb and flow. Toews and Kubalik happened to be the forwards banging in goals (or goals banging in off them in Toews case) this round. Kane was getting a lot of shots and looks and it could be him the next round.

If all these fellers were popping off at the same time the Hawks would be scoring 7 or 8 goals a game and that is a preposterous expectation.

High danger chances for at 5v5 was Kubalik, Kane and Dach as the top three. The puck went in for one of those guys and the other two didn't have the same luck.

Way too nit picky.

If I recall nylander last offseason seemed to put in the time to improve his game and standing. Dach didn't get any time and I'm impressed with how dach has elevated his performance.


I was in the beginning rooting for nylander he showed flashes of skill and confidence, something happened to him and his game.
- Taylorst1

The biggest difference is Dach knows how to play the game and where to be on the ice. He showed flashes in the regular season and was missing plays by a step or half step when he wasn't on. There were plenty of indications that Dach was going to be a decent hockey player if not a very good one.

Nylander has all of the technical skill in the world and pretty good physical attributes but has no clue where to be on the ice or what to do with the puck. He was able to boss around kids but can't do that against professionals. He probably won't amount to much ever. I would suspect he'll get a shot with another team for a year or two then be out of the NHL.

It is going to ebb and flow. Toews and Kubalik happened to be the forwards banging in goals (or goals banging in off them in Toews case) this round. Kane was getting a lot of shots and looks and it could be him the next round.

If all these fellers were popping off at the same time the Hawks would be scoring 7 or 8 goals a game and that is a preposterous expectation.

High danger chances for at 5v5 was Kubalik, Kane and Dach as the top three. The puck went in for one of those guys and the other two didn't have the same luck.

Way too nit picky.
- fattybeef

All the above named were point per game or better against the Oilers. What more can we ask for?

Agreed, he has had a great year a great 1st game of the play in playoffs but no reason to over pay him. It's one year, if he continues to possess that freakishly good eye hand coordination, he will get paid eventually.
- BetweenTheDots

Well, to be fair, kind of a big goal in that 3rd period also, when many others on the team would have shot it square in the goalie's chest.

I wouldn't go crazy, but I wouldn't let him get away either. he's definitely in the next wave of players for the Hawks.

Most teams aren't going to be able to pony up big bucks for others FAs.

Vegas is the better team nobody here will dispute that. MAF while he has struggled he also hasn't sat out 2 seasons with multiple concussions.

Crawford throughout this series has shown signs of something wrong like falling behind the net with nobody around .

Going back to each teams depth , while maf has struggled he is still considered a very good goalie and having lehner who is also a extremely talented goalie , who does Chicago have if Crawford cant improve his game ?

In 36 games played crawford has lost 20 games and won 16 those are the only numbers in the end that matter wins and losses.

Right now lehner is the healthier goalie going into this series , now if come game 1 and 2 Crawford plays lights out like he has in years past I'll then concede that he is back to his form. But I'm just not convinced he or this team based on the last round can get things going more consistently.
- Taylorst1

Ummm Crow got better every game after the second one. Was kind of good in the 4th to close the series.

Lehner is a bozo and I hope he's in the net so the Hawks can light him up.

All the above named were point per game or better against the Oilers. What more can we ask for?
- bhawks2241

That was my point.

With the Big 10 expected to cancel the fall season, this will have implications on ice hockey teams.

I didn't know this but the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds have Caufield's rights. So he is either playing in juniors or with the Habs AHL team in Laval.

Implications on the Blackhawks is D prospect Ess also at Wisconsin. Not sure what his options are but he's very low on the depth chart.

Other NCAA prospects to keep an eye on: Demin (Denver), Slavin and Basse (Colorado College), Wise and Vlasic (Boston U), Foo (Union College).
- AEL_Fox

Yeah isn pro football the NFL team with the best souting reports of last year are gonna reap the benefits when they have a draft based on play from a year ago.

With hockey, I dunno...if I am one of those kids, maybe I go to school get a comprehensive workout plan from the team that drafted me and play in summer leagues.

NHL teams will not be equipped or financially able to suddenly sign and speed up their present minor pro team plans.
I guess this drafted prospects CAN go play in ECHL or Europe at the expense of college, or suddenly go play in the CHL.

We need our guys to go to the net, especially if Lehner plays, because the great Lehner gives up a lot of rebounds. Lehner is 49 games under .500 for his career(not including OT/SO’s) and has won 6 playoff games, which includes two wins from this year. Crow is about 100 games over .500 for his career and has won 51 Playoff games, so if we are going to play the wins/losses game there’s that. MAF has one cup and that was in 2009, Murray was the starter for the other two cups.

Well, to be fair, kind of a big goal in that 3rd period also, when many others on the team would have shot it square in the goalie's chest.

I wouldn't go crazy, but I wouldn't let him get away either. he's definitely in the next wave of players for the Hawks.

Most teams aren't going to be able to pony up big bucks for others FAs.
- vabeachbear

It was a great GWG, glad he buried it, he only had to wait for the Captain to battle for the puck along the boards, win the puck and pass it to him for a 1 timer.

I don't want him to go anywhere, like Strome, but i don't want them to throw money at them either

This team has an intangible from it's veterans that is missing from a lot of teams (looking at you Toronto), is heart, and a will to win. Even 2 X Stanley Cup winner Olli Matta has stepped up his game in the playoffs. I didn't see too many mistakes, and a lot of good plays from him. McDavid made him look silly, but he has done that to every defenseman in the league. He hasn't made any Morgan Reilly gaffs out there (wonder if he will now get the Jake Gardiner treatment in Toronto).
- LAHawk

And knowing how to win because a team has done it before is a big deal. Even though I have no sympathy, losing Jake Muzzin hurt them in that area.

And how about that 2nd goal Freddie Anderson gave up that was the backbreaker? Championship goalies don't give those up and he does it every playoff year.

And knowing how to win because a team has done it before is a big deal. Even though I have no sympathy, losing Jake Muzzin hurt them in that area.

And how about that 2nd goal Freddie Anderson gave up that was the backbreaker? Championship goalies don't give those up and he does it every playoff year.
- RickJ

That was a horrible goal he gave up.

He'll get whatever Stan offers nobody is going to outbid Stan for Strome in a flat cap world. I think $2m is very close to what it will be.
- rpeters01

Remember the panik situation hopefully bowman learned from that.

That was a horrible goal he gave up.
- BetweenTheDots

Not the first time. Toronto has one more year to suffer with him, doubt anyone would want him for $5 mil.