On the 1st example, he wanted Nylander on the ice because he gives you the best chance to score in that situation

Can’t help with the 2nd one.

#FireColliton
- scottak

I thought Nylander was better last night.


I don't know what else to say.....I hope is ceiling is high, but I will take a Versteeg 2.0.....a reliable depth scorer who can float up and down the lineup.

I mean if we want to get OVERLY critical......

19 had a complete horse $ht shift at the end there. Had an easy chance to skate it to center and dump it in knowing he and his D were SPENT. Instead he passes to a covered Kubalik, who in fairness needs to deflect that pass down as well, but allas....turnover, and then both completely fall asleep and let Reilly sit wide open for the winner.

If anyone else does that this board melts down......and Toews has been far their most consistent F, but those mental mistakes can't happen by a veteran, been there guy, on a team with a thin margin for error.

I was thinking similar throughout the 3rd and OT

Boqvist wasn't great but Carlson.....was just horrid. Not only in his own zone but he missed passes to Kane to offensively to help set up offensive zone time. Id rather take the lumps with Boqvist then Carlson.

As far as JC....I think it was Mohel back in February where we talked about JC's "System"....I guess for me I would like a more educated broadcast from the Hawks. Let Eddie O show us breakdowns or where guys should be, or when they make the right play to help expedite the hockey knowledge across the fan base. instead we get Foley playing grab ass and I truly want to bash my head off a wall during crucial periods when he's dumbing down an already dumb broadcast.

For years this board torched Q for pushing his "system/style" upon teams that maybe werent' best equipped to handle it. ......so why in sam's hell is it OK for the Hawks to run a system where aging defensemen are chasing forwards half way up the wall...or double teaming guys on the weak side and relying on a forward group that 80% are clueless in their own end. I just dont' get how that works or gives this team the best chance to win.

Again last night....goal 1.....and goal 4.....those are 100% on Colliton's "system" and it's just beyond frustrating to watch. Chasing the puck which never works. Ever. Even in beer league.
- SteveRain

My unprofessional take on the system is that unless it is played perfectly it leaves prime scoring areas wide open. Any time a player makes a mistake or hesitates in coverage the entire system falls apart and leaves guys wide open in the slot and in front of the net.

It requires constant communication and each player doing exactly what the right thing at the exact right time. It also requires each player knowing what the other guy is going to do. 2 & 7 have this chemistry but it took them years to develop.

There is no fail safe.

Then there is the entire issue of heavy teams that cycle. They just wear out or D (I don't think it would matter if we had young mobile D given the amount of chasing that occurs). If you can cycle for 25-30 secs your going to tire the Hawks out and the result is sustained zone pressure and multiple shots on net.

Shoulda not been in the playoffs...
- rpeters01

Nor should have 12 other teams......but they are, and they are gaining an even better evaluation on many players they need so this ONLY helps their retool even better. Dach is a prime example......August Dach is so much better then Sept-March Dach that it makes Strome expendable. Couldn't have said that back in March. Dach added some muscle, and looks more confident, stronger, and is noticeable each shift.....likely even gets better before the 2021 season starts in December or January....

I just don't get this mindset. Take the gift that was this crazy covid tourney, hope the younger guys gain experience to help become more consistent NHL players, and enjoy.

I don't think anyone here expects them to win 16 more playoff games. I sure as hell don't. Could they? Sure....NHL has proven you can ride a hot goalie and go on a run. Numerous 8 seeds do it.

I said it yesterday....I expected them to win 2 games in this series....I also believed if they got A games from 2/19/50/88 they could pull the upset. THey win Saturday and this series still isn't over.

Im sorry.....everyone can shower Vegas with whatever accolades they want, but I don't see it. They are better then the Hawks. Their D isn't overly impressive, and Lehner was there for the taking last night. I will bet anyone here they aren't winning the cup. Not happening.

My unprofessional take on the system is that unless it is played perfectly it leaves prime scoring areas wide open. Any time a player makes a mistake or hesitates in coverage the entire system falls apart and leaves guys wide open in the slot and in front of the net.

It requires constant communication and each player doing exactly what the right thing at the exact right time. It also requires each player knowing what the other guy is going to do. 2 & 7 have this chemistry but it took them years to develop.

There is no fail safe.

Then there is the entire issue of heavy teams that cycle. They just wear out or D (I don't think it would matter if we had young mobile D given the amount of chasing that occurs). If you can cycle for 25-30 secs your going to tire the Hawks out and the result is sustained zone pressure and multiple shots on net.
- bhawks2241

Great take.....a cycle in the offensive zone with constant pressure is the sexiest thing in hockey next to a perfecly timed open ice CLEAN hit.

I agree with you....that's my beef. This team doesn't have the personnel to run a system that requires almost perfection.

Honestly....they almost need a Torts like style where everyone commits to D and they bog down teams and let CC do his thing.

Saturday.....I ride 20/19/88 and 12/77/8 into the ground. DeBrincat was a LOT better last night. He's long over due.

I also ride 27/2/44/5 into the ground on the back end.

I thought Nylander was better last night.


I don't know what else to say.....I hope is ceiling is high, but I will take a Versteeg 2.0.....a reliable depth scorer who can float up and down the lineup.

I mean if we want to get OVERLY critical......

19 had a complete horse $ht shift at the end there. Had an easy chance to skate it to center and dump it in knowing he and his D were SPENT. Instead he passes to a covered Kubalik, who in fairness needs to deflect that pass down as well, but allas....turnover, and then both completely fall asleep and let Reilly sit wide open for the winner.

If anyone else does that this board melts down......and Toews has been far their most consistent F, but those mental mistakes can't happen by a veteran, been there guy, on a team with a thin margin for error.
- SteveRain

Do you think Kubalik is a 5-6 mil player with the stagnant cap? He is a 30g guy but on a legit cup contender is he a top line player? No.

He probably is a 25-30g guy who doesn't bring much else. He really doesn't do any of the little things that help a team win.

Edit: I think the Hawks only have 2 legit top line players in Kane and Toews. They are really missing a legit top line power forward.

My unprofessional take on the system is that unless it is played perfectly it leaves prime scoring areas wide open. Any time a player makes a mistake or hesitates in coverage the entire system falls apart and leaves guys wide open in the slot and in front of the net.

It requires constant communication and each player doing exactly what the right thing at the exact right time. It also requires each player knowing what the other guy is going to do. 2 & 7 have this chemistry but it took them years to develop.

There is no fail safe.

Then there is the entire issue of heavy teams that cycle. They just wear out or D (I don't think it would matter if we had young mobile D given the amount of chasing that occurs). If you can cycle for 25-30 secs your going to tire the Hawks out and the result is sustained zone pressure and multiple shots on net.
- bhawks2241

I agree about the execution. i think (as in all systems) a familiarity with your defensive partner is extremely important. How many times has Carlsson and Murphy taken shifts together? My gut reaction is not many. Maybe Murtphy was reacting to what DaHaan or Keith would of done?

I agree about the execution. i think (as in all systems) a familiarity with your defensive partner is extremely important. How many times has Carlsson and Murphy taken shifts together? My gut reaction is not many. Maybe Murtphy was reacting to what DaHaan or Keith would of done?
- LAHawk

Even if you have familiarity, one mistake causes the entire system to collapse. These are pro athletes going against other pros. You can't expect a system to be perfectly executed.

It is also passive chasing. If you try to make an aggressive play on D you are taking a huge risk.

Great take.....a cycle in the offensive zone with constant pressure is the sexiest thing in hockey next to a perfecly timed open ice CLEAN hit.

I agree with you....that's my beef. This team doesn't have the personnel to run a system that requires almost perfection.

Honestly....they almost need a Torts like style where everyone commits to D and they bog down teams and let CC do his thing.

Saturday.....I ride 20/19/88 and 12/77/8 into the ground. DeBrincat was a LOT better last night. He's long over due.

I also ride 27/2/44/5 into the ground on the back end.
- SteveRain

Kane played 24 minutes, Keith played 28, so they are already being run into the ground. Was Matta hurt, ad he didn't take any shifts late in the game. I think 68 has been very good in these playoffs. I am souring on 12, he needs to score 40 a year to break even with how bad a defensive player he is. He is famous for the cross ice pass in the defensive zone that is not near a Hawk player but seems to be easily intecepted by the opposition.

Didn't the Hawks at the beginning of the year play a dump and chase conservative style, and the players and fans got all up their panties about it, and JC went more wide open?

Do you think Kubalik is a 5-6 mil player with the stagnant cap? He is a 30g guy but on a legit cup contender is he a top line player? No.

He probably is a 25-30g guy who doesn't bring much else. He really doesn't do any of the little things that help a team win.

Edit: I think the Hawks only have 2 legit top line players in Kane and Toews. They are really missing a legit top line power forward.
- bhawks2241

If one thing this playoff has exposed on the Hawks have been the lack of depth at forward, and that Crow has not been playoff Crow. I think the defense has for the most part been better than we could of hoped. Kinda not the narrative about the team going into the playoffs. Does Stan reevaluate his off season moves?

Do you think Kubalik is a 5-6 mil player with the stagnant cap? He is a 30g guy but on a legit cup contender is he a top line player? No.

He probably is a 25-30g guy who doesn't bring much else. He really doesn't do any of the little things that help a team win.

Edit: I think the Hawks only have 2 legit top line players in Kane and Toews. They are really missing a legit top line power forward.
- bhawks2241

I like Kubalik. I think he'll be a poor man's Sharp. He can finish which they need and again....he's 1 year into his NHL career so its tough to say he won't pick up on the small stuff. It took Kane how long to learn from watching Hossa night in and night out?

I think you have Dach, Toews, and Kane as LEGIT top 6 guys on a true cup contender. I am 100% all in on Dach based on how much he improved from March to now. It's fun to watch.

Here in lies the issue.....You have Debrincat, Saad, and likely Kubalik who all will be hovering around 6 AAV. You need guys to score and help win games over 82 games, adn then you also need the small stuff that adds up that Saad does well. You can't have 1 without the other.....Saad over a course the regular season doesn't merit his 6 AAV but then examples like game 1 he does.....then he shows that same scoring inconsistency when he WHIFFS on a wide open net last night in period 1.

Where guys become expendable IMO....is when a guy like DeBrincat doesn't score/produce in the regular season AND the playoffs.

This offseason is going to be fascinating to watch by Bowman...The only 3 guys I truly think who won't be traded are Kane, Toews, and Dach. I coudl see them dangling Keith, IF Keith wanted to, to remove the log jam on D.....I mean how long can Keith skate top pairing minutes....and realistically....Keith isn't a top pairing guy on a true contender right now. He'd be a HUGE asset to have on the 2nd pairing.

If one thing this playoff has exposed on the Hawks have been the lack of depth at forward, and that Crow has not been playoff Crow. I think the defense has for the most part been better than we could of hoped. Kinda not the narrative about the team going into the playoffs. Does Stan reevaluate his off season moves?
- LAHawk

Unless several of our forward prospects are ready to contribute in the middle 6 and play a solid 2 way game... then yes I think so.

Then again Smith and Shaw were supposed to be those pieces. Right now both are dead salary. Need to move out both those salaries and Maatta.

I like Kubalik. I think he'll be a poor man's Sharp. He can finish which they need and again....he's 1 year into his NHL career so its tough to say he won't pick up on the small stuff. It took Kane how long to learn from watching Hossa night in and night out?

I think you have Dach, Toews, and Kane as LEGIT top 6 guys on a true cup contender. I am 100% all in on Dach based on how much he improved from March to now. It's fun to watch.

Here in lies the issue.....You have Debrincat, Saad, and likely Kubalik who all will be hovering around 6 AAV. You need guys to score and help win games over 82 games, adn then you also need the small stuff that adds up that Saad does well. You can't have 1 without the other.....Saad over a course the regular season doesn't merit his 6 AAV but then examples like game 1 he does.....then he shows that same scoring inconsistency when he WHIFFS on a wide open net last night in period 1.

Where guys become expendable IMO....is when a guy like DeBrincat doesn't score/produce in the regular season AND the playoffs.

This offseason is going to be fascinating to watch by Bowman...The only 3 guys I truly think who won't be traded are Kane, Toews, and Dach. I coudl see them dangling Keith, IF Keith wanted to, to remove the log jam on D.....I mean how long can Keith skate top pairing minutes....and realistically....Keith isn't a top pairing guy on a true contender right now. He'd be a HUGE asset to have on the 2nd pairing.
- SteveRain

Agreed. I think Dcat is a luxury and the Hawks don't have the cap space for that. If I am choosing between him and Kubalik. I am taking Kubalik everytime.

Kane played 24 minutes, Keith played 28, so they are already being run into the ground. Was Matta hurt, ad he didn't take any shifts late in the game. I think 68 has been very good in these playoffs. I am souring on 12, he needs to score 40 a year to break even with how bad a defensive player he is. He is famous for the cross ice pass in the defensive zone that is not near a Hawk player but seems to be easily intecepted by the opposition.

Didn't the Hawks at the beginning of the year play a dump and chase conservative style, and the players and fans got all up their panties about it, and JC went more wide open?
- LAHawk

Not sure on Maata. Agreed on 68....he's been surprisingly better and not noticeable on D when he's out there in a bad way.

If 12 isnt' a focal point and making teams pay.....its valid to say he isn't worth the money. Again.....SB jumping the shark there early

What can the hawks get for Decrincat?

If one thing this playoff has exposed on the Hawks have been the lack of depth at forward, and that Crow has not been playoff Crow. I think the defense has for the most part been better than we could of hoped. Kinda not the narrative about the team going into the playoffs. Does Stan reevaluate his off season moves?
- LAHawk

To me the forward depth has been the issue for about 3-4 seasons. Not offensively, but defensively. The Hawks need more role players that are well rounded because they have firepower, but not enough guys that can bring some defense with that offense. I remember the 3rd and 4th lines that would take defensive responsibility without getting scored on so much, while driving play to the other end of the rink so the top lines could attack. We have a couple too many guys that have skill but not enough compete.

Hawks are also sorely lacking a dman that can really effectively join the rush. When the Hawks were at their best, they had guys like Campbell or Leddy that would take the puck from one end to the other on their own and just skate the puck out of danger and put the team on the attack.

What can the hawks get for Decrincat?
- Bhawks2585

Montreal is in need of goals, Domi and Julien do not seem to get along, Domi has been regulated to 4th line minutes. Negative on Domi is he is an RFA and how much he would want, even after a down year by him. I would try ADB for Domi and one of Montreal's 3 2nd round picks.

Montreal is in need of goals, Domi and Julien do not seem to get along, Domi has been regulated to 4th line minutes. Negative on Domi is he is an RFA and how much he would want, even after a down year by him. I would try ADB for Domi and one of Montreal's 3 2nd round picks.
- LAHawk

Just wondering if there is an update on his health.

Great take.....a cycle in the offensive zone with constant pressure is the sexiest thing in hockey next to a perfecly timed open ice CLEAN hit.

I agree with you....that's my beef. This team doesn't have the personnel to run a system that requires almost perfection.

Honestly....they almost need a Torts like style where everyone commits to D and they bog down teams and let CC do his thing.

Saturday.....I ride 20/19/88 and 12/77/8 into the ground. DeBrincat was a LOT better last night. He's long over due.

I also ride 27/2/44/5 into the ground on the back end.
- SteveRain

I would never have agreed with you a few years ago about a “Torts” type, but now... I completely agree. But... can we rely on CC still doing his “thing”?

It's a good idea to also remember the Hawks are icing a very young team, even with a few older vets in the lineup. Many of the guys we are rolling out with major ice time have less than 10 playoff games under their belt.

This is the first dance for Dach, Kampf, DeBrincat, Nylander, Kubalik, Highmore, Strome, Murphy, Boqvist, Carlsson.

Add to that we are playing the most dominant 5v5 team when it comes to shot attempt, shots on goal, scoring chances. Vegas are not overrated. They are not pretenders. This is a solid team.

Agreed. I think Dcat is a luxury and the Hawks don't have the cap space for that. If I am choosing between him and Kubalik. I am taking Kubalik everytime.
- bhawks2241

And Saad over both...

The amount of poop vegas got away with last night was ridiculous. Just to mention a few, elbow to Saad the slash that should have been a double minor and an obvious boarding penalty.

I like Kubalik. I think he'll be a poor man's Sharp. He can finish which they need and again....he's 1 year into his NHL career so its tough to say he won't pick up on the small stuff. It took Kane how long to learn from watching Hossa night in and night out?

I think you have Dach, Toews, and Kane as LEGIT top 6 guys on a true cup contender. I am 100% all in on Dach based on how much he improved from March to now. It's fun to watch.

Here in lies the issue.....You have Debrincat, Saad, and likely Kubalik who all will be hovering around 6 AAV. You need guys to score and help win games over 82 games, adn then you also need the small stuff that adds up that Saad does well. You can't have 1 without the other.....Saad over a course the regular season doesn't merit his 6 AAV but then examples like game 1 he does.....then he shows that same scoring inconsistency when he WHIFFS on a wide open net last night in period 1.

Where guys become expendable IMO....is when a guy like DeBrincat doesn't score/produce in the regular season AND the playoffs.

This offseason is going to be fascinating to watch by Bowman...The only 3 guys I truly think who won't be traded are Kane, Toews, and Dach. I coudl see them dangling Keith, IF Keith wanted to, to remove the log jam on D.....I mean how long can Keith skate top pairing minutes....and realistically....Keith isn't a top pairing guy on a true contender right now. He'd be a HUGE asset to have on the 2nd pairing.
- SteveRain

Idk, I think I’d include Kubalik and Saad as legit top 6 guys. Keith still provides value to contract and is a number one on this team.

Kubalik has just the one season but he’s continued scoring as the game’s have gotten tighter.

I don’t see Keith going anywhere unless someone decides he’s the piece to have in the off-season and make the Hawks an unrefusable offer.

The off-season will be interesting as always. Maybe they make a somewhat significant trade. No room for UFA contracts and I think they are counting on:

Suter fitting in somewhere in the top 9 and producing somewhere between the likes of Kubalik and Kahun.

Mitchell competing for a spot on D.

Growth from within the current ranks and maybe a guy or two advancing from RFD.

I think on an earlier post from you, I don’t really have an issue with letting Boqvist collect his thought and regroup for a game. Hopefully they go right back to him.

At least they replaced him with another guy who possibly figures into the future with Carlsson vs say giving Seeler any minutes.

The amount of poop vegas got away with last night was ridiculous. Just to mention a few, elbow to Saad the slash that should have been a double minor and an obvious boarding penalty.
- Bhawks2585

And you wonder why Kane looks disinterested at times. Makes you wonder if they knew beforehand that they would win 1 series only.

Montreal is in need of goals, Domi and Julien do not seem to get along, Domi has been regulated to 4th line minutes. Negative on Domi is he is an RFA and how much he would want, even after a down year by him. I would try ADB for Domi and one of Montreal's 3 2nd round picks.
- LAHawk

MTL has liked there undersized scorers in recent years too...so there’s that.

MTL has liked there undersized scorers in recent years too...so there’s that.
- HawkintheD

Good point. They did draft 5’7” Caufield.