I want the best pick but I also want to see Vancouver knock DeBoer out.
- Queenie_5_hole

What do you have against DeBoer?

I wish they had drafted him
- shvingter88

I want the best pick but I also want to see Vancouver knock DeBoer out.
- Queenie_5_hole

What do you have against DeBoer?
- MartysBetter88

Idk. I guess I should be grateful for that win against the Rangers in 2012. But I was glad to see him go. Felt like he always coached the same way and couldn’t make an in game adjustment for anything. Line shuffle , sure. Change how we were playing no.

Idk. I guess I should be grateful for that win against the Rangers in 2012. But I was glad to see him go. Felt like he always coached the same way and couldn’t make an in game adjustment for anything. Line shuffle , sure. Change how we were playing no.
- Queenie_5_hole

I don't think it was Pete's fault that the team was really old and lost all of it's scoring talent. Maybe it's a sour taste because that was finally the end of that era of Devils.

I don't think it was Pete's fault that the team was really old and lost all of it's scoring talent. Maybe it's a sour taste because that was finally the end of that era of Devils.
- Pomegrant

It wasn’t his fault. I just always felt Pete was adequate. Not good or bad.

Here we are all these years later and we still stink. Maybe worse.

The farm is certainly better so hopefully we can build something...

them Golden Knights look like world-beaters. pretty amazing.

them Golden Knights look like world-beaters. pretty amazing.
- MartysBetter88

As long as they beat the Canucks...and then come to us for cap help in the offseason.

What do you have against DeBoer?
- MartysBetter88

I don't hold anything against DeBoer. His squad looks like a serious contender right now. Ill admit I was a little irked when he stated that he had no idea how to coach playoff hockey when he was with the Devs, and has a better grip now. I get it's a whole new season, but he seemed to wash his hands of an ill-performed job quite easily. Not a big deal, and quotes can certainly twist the way you are actually conveying your message. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and wish him good luck.

As long as they beat the Canucks...and then come to us for cap help in the offseason.
- redmonsters

Something has to give on the RW. No way they can continue forward with Stone/March/Tuch. They are all under good contracts and any of those guys would round off our 1/2 RW nicely with Palms

Something has to give on the RW. No way they can continue forward with Stone/March/Tuch. They are all under good contracts and any of those guys would round off our 1/2 RW nicely with Palms
- bikeguy99

I'd think they're more likely to try to move Stasny then one of those guys.

Regardless, the only player we are likely to get from them is Jon Merrill.

I would have made that trade for kapanen

I would have made that trade for kapanen
- shvingter88

I feel like it's a better trade for Toronto. They can hope to get Schneider or Guhle at 15. Not a bad trade for Pittsburgh though.

I feel like it's a better trade for Toronto. They can hope to get Schneider or Guhle at 15. Not a bad trade for Pittsburgh though.
- MartysBetter88

I kind of feel the same way. Very good for Toronto to get that high a pick and some valuable cap space. Not so good for Pittsburgh.

This trade is pretty bad for Pittsburgh. It just goes to show the complete lack of asset management and how being in "win now" mode to justify trading your picks away is good. They drafted Kapanen in '14 and now they are trading their pick again to get him back. This is a constant trading down over and over that makes a team bad. And they've just gotten lucky that they've had Malkin and Crosby this entire time while creating a poop lineup around them.

This trade is pretty bad for Pittsburgh. It just goes to show the complete lack of asset management and how being in "win now" mode to justify trading your picks away is good. They drafted Kapanen in '14 and now they are trading their pick again to get him back. This is a constant trading down over and over that makes a team bad. And they've just gotten lucky that they've had Malkin and Crosby this entire time while creating a poop lineup around them.
- Pomegrant

What???? Pitts should absolutely be in "Win Now" mode. Sid and Malkin can still play a high level, but for how much longer. Not many talented RW's available at 3.2M AAV. I like this trade for Pitts. This is what they do. They stack up a team, win, tank for a few years, and come back and win again. 15th overalls can be good and they can be absolute crapshoots. The past 10 drafts saw 15th overall as such:
2010 - Derek Forbort
2011 - J.T. Miller
2012 - Cody Ceci
2013 - Ryan Pulock
2014 - Dylan Larkin
2015 - Zach Senyshyn
2016 - Luke Kunin
2017 - Erik Brannstrom
2018 - Grigori Denisenko
2019 - Cole Caufield

You could argue that some players are better, but it would be debatable, and other names will never play a full NHL season. I think the Pens made a decent trade here.

@JasonGregor
Past 14 months Rutherford has made 9 NHL trades:
Maatta for Kahun and a 5th.
Kessel, Birks, 4th for Galchenyuk and Joseph.
6th for Marino
Gubranson for Martinsen and 7th.
Galchenyuk, Addison, 1st for Zucker.
Blandisi for Varone
3rd for Marleau
Kahun for Sheary/Rodrigues
And below

Desperately trading down value in assets to "win now" and then flipping those assets again for other team's failed projects hoping they turn around is a bad strategy. Pittsburgh randomly walked into back-to-back ups after constantly trading down assets because they thought Crosby and Malkin's window was closing when it wasn't. Now they are stuck with a bunch of mediocre parts and their actual core is going to start declining along with it.

Also, this "look at the quality of player at 15" list is nonsense. They've drafted once in the first round in the past seven years which is the main reason they don't have any depth. They don't develop talent so they need to trade for depth players, but they have to give up more than they would want to because teams know they are desperate since they are in "win now" mode.

This is a great move for Toronto because they get a pick and a prospect for a guy they couldn't afford and free up space to re-sign one of their guys they need. Sure, Kapanen might be real nice for Pitt but a lot of mediocre players look good playing next to Malkin or Crosby.

I'm fine with Pittsburgh thinking 'win-now' but it just seems like not a ton of value for a 15th overall pick in a good draft. From a historic perspective it might make sense when compared to other 15th overall picks, but draft picks seem to have the most value close to the draft.

What I also don't get is Pittsburgh already said they are likely to trade a goalie, so you'd think they want to use that asset for 'win now' help and keep their pick. But I guess they can do both.

Also with the potential of cap space being a huge issue, bailing out Toronto on cap space seems like a big benefit.

Desperately trading down value in assets to "win now" and then flipping those assets again for other team's failed projects hoping they turn around is a bad strategy. Pittsburgh randomly walked into back-to-back ups after constantly trading down assets because they thought Crosby and Malkin's window was closing when it wasn't. Now they are stuck with a bunch of mediocre parts and their actual core is going to start declining along with it.

Also, this "look at the quality of player at 15" list is nonsense. They've drafted once in the first round in the past seven years which is the main reason they don't have any depth. They don't develop talent so they need to trade for depth players, but they have to give up more than they would want to because teams know they are desperate since they are in "win now" mode.

This is a great move for Toronto because they get a pick and a prospect for a guy they couldn't afford and free up space to re-sign one of their guys they need. Sure, Kapanen might be real nice for Pitt but a lot of mediocre players look good playing next to Malkin or Crosby.
- Pomegrant

I honestly thought the Zucker trade was a lot worse. This one wasn't a win or anything, but I think people are making it out to be a lot worse than it is. I think the 15th overall pick was fair value for Kapanen, Hallander might have been a bit much but at the same there's nothing that stands out about his history that says he's going to be an impact player. A lot is being made about him being the 4th best prospect in the pens system or whatever but I feel that's more a product of their lack of depth. Granted, I've never taken a close look at his game, maybe he's been dominating the SHL but has scrubs for linemates.

I honestly thought the Zucker trade was a lot worse. This one wasn't a win or anything, but I think people are making it out to be a lot worse than it is. I think the 15th overall pick was fair value for Kapanen, Hallander might have been a bit much but at the same there's nothing that stands out about his history that says he's going to be an impact player. A lot is being made about him being the 4th best prospect in the pens system or whatever but I feel that's more a product of their lack of depth. Granted, I've never taken a close look at his game, maybe he's been dominating the SHL but has scrubs for linemates.
- rmdevil313

I don't take a huge stake in prospects either, but the fact that they traded away their first and a prospect in an already thin organization is endemic of a bigger problem to why the trade sucks. The Zucker deal is also terrible though as is most of JR's trades.

Anyway we can get Coleman back in the red & black? What would it take?

Anyway we can get Coleman back in the red & black? What would it take?
- shoobedevil

He's a beautiful man. The perfect 3rd liner. As soon as he emerged as such, we traded him. Really hope Foote can also at least be a 3rd line winger.

Pens have made some terrible trades. The overpayment for Zucker is a doozy. .. and what they got for Kessel. They've lost so many assets, but have won 2 recent Cups in the process.

I think Kapanen can be good for them. Maybe he's the best fit for Crosby or Malkin. But 15th overall.. that stings.
I'm still on the win-now train. I don't see as much of a problem with it if it can result in another Cup. Yes, Crosby and Malkin are aging, but both just had stellar seasons yet again. I say keep surrounding them with as much as possible. The Kapanen trade aims to make that happen. Malkin is 34, Crosby 33, Letang 33. Malkin and Letang's deals are up in 2 more years, which means they have at least next season to go all-in.. THEN consider trading one or both in their final year. Then let the chips fall where they may. Crosby will be 35, and maybe it would be time to rebuild at that point. Rust will also be a UFA that year. Still another year of Jack Johnson tho lol.
I think they should continue to be in win-now mode, because they'll be taking huge hits after Malkin and Letang expire, let alone Crosby slowing down. I think you have to use and abuse having their production while you can. The future will suck and lack depth. That's fine. They can be bottom-dwellers for a few seasons like every other team. They've had a great run with their gifts from heaven drafting 1-2-1-2 in years were a franchise goalie, back to back generational centers, and the best 3rd line center you could ask for would be available. It's not like they've been searching for a goalie after Fleury. They have a goalie.. 2 goalies. They just need to make the right moves and will be contenders again next year.

Anyway we can get Coleman back in the red & black? What would it take?
- shoobedevil

Probably a first and a good prospect

I'm fine with Pittsburgh thinking 'win-now' but it just seems like not a ton of value for a 15th overall pick in a good draft. From a historic perspective it might make sense when compared to other 15th overall picks, but draft picks seem to have the most value close to the draft.

What I also don't get is Pittsburgh already said they are likely to trade a goalie, so you'd think they want to use that asset for 'win now' help and keep their pick. But I guess they can do both.

Also with the potential of cap space being a huge issue, bailing out Toronto on cap space seems like a big benefit.
- Queenie_5_hole

Realistically, the 15th is a massive gamble and Kap is a proven player. There is great value in a 3.2M dollar man who can thrive in a top 6 role. He is 24 and should have some great years in it. Look at what we got in exchange for Coleman. Don't you think that if Pitts falters out, they could easily trade him as a rental at the end of his contract and essentially get that first back? It is no different then our deal with Mojo. We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd to acquire him, played him as a top 6, and shuffled him out for a 2nd and 4th, essentially moving down late in the draft but using his services for a couple much needed seasons.

Realistically, the 15th is a massive gamble and Kap is a proven player. There is great value in a 3.2M dollar man who can thrive in a top 6 role. He is 24 and should have some great years in it. Look at what we got in exchange for Coleman. Don't you think that if Pitts falters out, they could easily trade him as a rental at the end of his contract and essentially get that first back? It is no different then our deal with Mojo. We gave up a 2nd and a 3rd to acquire him, played him as a top 6, and shuffled him out for a 2nd and 4th, essentially moving down late in the draft but using his services for a couple much needed seasons.
- bikeguy99

Yes, definitely agree they can recoup much of this with moving Kap at the deadline if it doesn’t work. That’s also why I don’t mind signing UFAs; because it can be free assets.

Good points. You’re probably right. 1st rounders are just sexy this time of year.