I absolutely agree that all of those guys were hugely important. I will counter though that for the right price, any of them are expendable.

You can love a player but realize that the franchise is better moving them.

With two years left on their contracts, this is peak value time for Letang and Geno. Im not saying they should be moved, but i do think it should be considered.

Letang I feel they can win without. He is fantastic, but they won a cup without him and if he brings back offensive firepower in return they can focus on outscoring opponents.

Geno is tougher as there aren't any great options out there to replace him with at center.
- MacPatty

I replied before, if we can get Domi to be the 2c and the Rangers ACTUALLY would move the first for Geno I'd do it. And you would need to replace Letang with a real good RHD if you are moving him. When they won without Letang this team was 3 years younger. And it was for one playoff run, not an entire season and playoff.

I dont think one player has to replace Letang. Roll 3 decent pairs on defence and run a stacked offense. It has worked before for them.
- MacPatty

We don't have a third pair good enough at this point to even do that. If you move Letang you need to add 3 good defensemen. A decent top pair guy and solid 3rd pair guys that could be 2nd pair guys. Ain't worth it. To many moving parts.

In other news we decided to not sign Pavlychev. It’s never likely a 6th round pick is gonna make the NHL but I’d be lying if i said I wasn’t hoping we’d get to see a 7 foot russian in our sweater one day.
- Victoro311

Too bad. They had 5 or 6 spots and only offered him an AHL deal. Long shot, but an interesting one.

I just read this on the Leafs blog:

"One advantage for Toronto is that each of those forwards has significant signing bonuses paid out at the start of the 2020-21 season, which means an acquiring team would only owe what is remaining in base salary (Nylander - $2.5 Million, Kapanen - $1.86 Million, Johnsson - $2.6 Million, Kerfoot - $2.6 Million)."

Someone said Marner is only $700K cash after his bonus.

Those have to be enticing to the "budget" Pens, at least somewhat, IMO. Not sure if the Leafs really want to get rid of Andersen and/or if they even want Murray.

We don't have a third pair good enough at this point to even do that. If you move Letang you need to add 3 good defensemen. A decent top pair guy and solid 3rd pair guys that could be 2nd pair guys. Ain't worth it. To many moving parts.
- 668710

Not that it would be hard, but they should be able to really improve that bottom pair. Hopefully POJ or even Riikola takes over the left side. Looks like Ruhwedel for the right, but maybe they find someone late in free agency. Would love to see them get an unexpected add like Tampa did with Shattenkirk.

I replied before, if we can get Domi to be the 2c and the Rangers ACTUALLY would move the first for Geno I'd do it. And you would need to replace Letang with a real good RHD if you are moving him. When they won without Letang this team was 3 years younger. And it was for one playoff run, not an entire season and playoff.
- 668710

I definitely want to get Domi but he is a very large step down from Geno. That said having Lafreniere on his wing would be a boost.

I just read this on the Leafs blog:

"One advantage for Toronto is that each of those forwards has significant signing bonuses paid out at the start of the 2020-21 season, which means an acquiring team would only owe what is remaining in base salary (Nylander - $2.5 Million, Kapanen - $1.86 Million, Johnsson - $2.6 Million, Kerfoot - $2.6 Million)."

Someone said Marner is only $700K cash after his bonus.

Those have to be enticing to the "budget" Pens, at least somewhat, IMO. Not sure if the Leafs really want to get rid of Andersen and/or if they even want Murray.
- Hockey66

Yes, and Dubas is an awful GM, so I'm hoping JR is in regular convo with him.

We don't have a third pair good enough at this point to even do that. If you move Letang you need to add 3 good defensemen. A decent top pair guy and solid 3rd pair guys that could be 2nd pair guys. Ain't worth it. To many moving parts.
- 668710

I mean, Vatanen, Barrie, Krug, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo. Also, Harmonic, Brodie, Schultz, Gudas... There are enough guys out there to piece something together in free agency. Let alone anything you could get via trade.

Pens fans would be thrilled with that trade. Patience wore thin with Bjugstad only playing 3 weeks this year. Honestly doesn't seem fair to you. He'll be available though and you can likely get him for less.

Pens might be in salary dump mode though so I don't think they'll do a salary swap with Bjugstad if they can help it. Might not have a choice.
- Tojo.

The trade favoring the Pebs is why it would have to include a Russell or Neal going the other way, as the value of getting rid of the contract on our side would help offset that. And the 3 weeks of Bjugstad are more than the 0 games of Puljujarvi last year. Would rather have a player with something to prove rather than a kid who doesn't wanna be on the team.

So... pretty safe to say Oli wasn’t the problem last year and it was in fact abysmal deployment and partners that got him.

So... pretty safe to say Oli wasn’t the problem last year and it was in fact abysmal deployment and partners that got him.
- Victoro311

Dang, 3 goals already.

More and more I get the impression that Sully isn't a very good coach.

Then there's JR: Maatta > Kahun > Sheary/Rodrigues

I know contracts and the cap played into the first move. But wow, nothing to show for that asset.

Not that it would be hard, but they should be able to really improve that bottom pair. Hopefully POJ or even Riikola takes over the left side. Looks like Ruhwedel for the right, but maybe they find someone late in free agency. Would love to see them get an unexpected add like Tampa did with Shattenkirk.
- Tojo.

I'm saying that if we get rid of Letang we would need a MUCH better third pair. With Letang I'm ok with Rikki/Ruh/POJ

I never wanted to see Oli go but as others have said I think Sully mismanaged him and I’m at the point I don’t trust Sullys decisions anymore. Too many guys have had success after leaving the team and the Pens continue to look worse.

Dang, 3 goals already.

More and more I get the impression that Sully isn't a very good coach.

Then there's JR: Maatta > Kahun > Sheary/Rodrigues

I know contracts and the cap played into the first move. But wow, nothing to show for that asset.
- Hockey66

Ironically, and I’ve said this before, I think what did Oli in ultimately was that the coaching staff trusted him too much. Maatta did amazing paired with a top pairing quality Matt Niskanen in a sheltered bottom pairing role, and then was really cooking on the top pairing with Letang before hitting that bout of serious injuries. Then when he came back he kept drawing absolutely trash assignments like lugging the corpse of Trevor Daley and offside Jack Johnson. I think the coaching staff expected him to be good enough to elevate bad partners, and when he didn’t succeed at that he fell on the sword instead of the coaching staff realizing that playing bad players is a bad idea regardless of whether or not their partner is good enough to cover for them.

I mean, Vatanen, Barrie, Krug, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo. Also, Harmonic, Brodie, Schultz, Gudas... There are enough guys out there to piece something together in free agency. Let alone anything you could get via trade.
- MacPatty

Just because they are available doesn't mean we can get them. Hell of a gamble. Now say a trade happens that someone had brought up before to get Domi and Petry...id consider it, hopefully we would be able to sign on of the free agent Dmen too.

Ironically, and I’ve said this before, I think what did Oli in ultimately was that the coaching staff trusted him too much. Maatta did amazing paired with a top pairing quality Matt Niskanen in a sheltered bottom pairing role, and then was really cooking on the top pairing with Letang before hitting that bout of serious injuries. Then when he came back he kept drawing absolutely trash assignments like lugging the corpse of Trevor Daley and offside Jack Johnson. I think the coaching staff expected him to be good enough to elevate bad partners, and when he didn’t succeed at that he fell on the sword instead of the coaching staff realizing that playing bad players is a bad idea regardless of whether or not their partner is good enough to cover for them.
- Victoro311

Yea pretty much. JJ with Tanger as well, dumb.

Ironically, and I’ve said this before, I think what did Oli in ultimately was that the coaching staff trusted him too much. Maatta did amazing paired with a top pairing quality Matt Niskanen in a sheltered bottom pairing role, and then was really cooking on the top pairing with Letang before hitting that bout of serious injuries. Then when he came back he kept drawing absolutely trash assignments like lugging the corpse of Trevor Daley and offside Jack Johnson. I think the coaching staff expected him to be good enough to elevate bad partners, and when he didn’t succeed at that he fell on the sword instead of the coaching staff realizing that playing bad players is a bad idea regardless of whether or not their partner is good enough to cover for them.
- Victoro311

I mean, the easiest thing to foresee is that Maatta wouldn't be fast enough to make up for his partner's constant mistakes, which, in turn, makes Maatta look bad. But if he has a competent partner, like you said, he does well.

I don't know of any Pens fans who are bitter that Murray "pushed MAF out" or hate him. I love MAF (one of my favorite Pens of all-time) but I completely agreed with the decision back then because it made sense on many different levels. I don't begrudge Murray at all for that (that would be a strange reason to dislike a player since he had nothing to do with it).

I like Murray as a person and I hope the best for him. However, he has been an average to below average goalie for 3 years now with no signs that his level of play is improving. Goalies can be like that.

There is disagreement about Murray's value, which is fine, because it's very difficult to determine. But just like with other value disagreements, "we'll see" what happens. The market has a way of determining a player's value. It isn't perfect and there are definitely outliers (JJ, anyone?), but by and large, how much players are valued by the rest of the league becomes evident.
- Hockey66

I know TONS of fans bitter at Murray. Hell they gave him a Bronx cheer this year.
I dont think he played "below average" at all. Was he as good as the 2 Cup Runs? Obviously not. So many people even during the Cup runs were clamoring for MAF to replace #30. I dont expect them to land a major haul for him, but I do think whoever does snag him will have a heckuva steal. Would be kind of ironic if Vegas picks him up and he ends up forcing MAF away a 2nd time...

Too many people are trading Letang without replacing him. You cannot ask a second year player in John Marino, who very well might take a set back during his sophomore year, to take up that type of job.

Trading Letang creates more problems than it solves.

Of our top 6, I'd like 3 out of 6 to be on the block/let go in FA: Schultz, Pettersson, and Johnson. Letang/Dumo/Marino are not part of the problem.
- SuperHenderson13

💯 (frank) Pettersson

I know TONS of fans bitter at Murray. Hell they gave him a Bronx cheer this year.
I dont think he played "below average" at all. Was he as good as the 2 Cup Runs? Obviously not. So many people even during the Cup runs were clamoring for MAF to replace #30. I dont expect them to land a major haul for him, but I do think whoever does snag him will have a heckuva steal. Would be kind of ironic if Vegas picks him up and he ends up forcing MAF away a 2nd time...
- Amanion

Every fan base is full of (frank)ing idiots. Love maf but it was time to let him go. End of story. If ppl don’t understand that then they aren’t paying attention to anything other than who they like best as a player. I’d take Scott hartnell, Adam graves, and Trevor gillies if it meant the cup next year, and seriously (frank) those 3 pieces of trash.

I know TONS of fans bitter at Murray. Hell they gave him a Bronx cheer this year.
I dont think he played "below average" at all. Was he as good as the 2 Cup Runs? Obviously not. So many people even during the Cup runs were clamoring for MAF to replace #30. I dont expect them to land a major haul for him, but I do think whoever does snag him will have a heckuva steal. Would be kind of ironic if Vegas picks him up and he ends up forcing MAF away a 2nd time...
- Amanion

Well, I don't know if that is because they were bitter at Murray for displacing MAF but rather he was just playing like crap a lot. And yeah, the Bronx cheer is lame given everything Murray has gone through and it's not like he isn't trying or is disgruntled. 2 of the last 3 seasons Murray was .907 and .899 so that's definitely below average, playoffs about the same during that stretch.

Yeah, that would be funny if he displaced MAF in Vegas but they need to get rid of MAF first which might be a tall task. Then again, MAF came up big tonight so maybe they don't want to move on from him.

Every fan base is full of (frank)ing idiots. Love maf but it was time to let him go. End of story. If ppl don’t understand that then they aren’t paying attention to anything other than who they like best as a player. I’d take Scott hartnell, Adam graves, and Trevor gillies if it meant the cup next year, and seriously (frank) those 3 pieces of trash.
- 10inchTerror

I'm assuming you approve of my avatar then?

God I miss Kunitz. You better believe he would have gone after Weber and Chiarot that last series.

I'm assuming you approve of my avatar then?

God I miss Kunitz. You better believe he would have gone after Weber and Chiarot that last series.
- Hockey66

Haha oh yeah. I love old school rockem sockem hockey.. but only if they can play too. Don’t need a reeves, Goddard, McIntyre, etc.

I’m actually pretty impressed with Weber. When mtl made that trade I was like wtf a few years from now that contract is going to be an albatross. I know he’s had some injury issues but when he plays he is effective still. My dream defensive pairing i think (at least with only 30s of thought at 6am) would be ekholm-parayko. Two big tough monsters who can Shoot, skate and play hard.

Haha oh yeah. I love old school rockem sockem hockey.. but only if they can play too. Don’t need a reeves, Goddard, McIntyre, etc.

I’m actually pretty impressed with Weber. When mtl made that trade I was like wtf a few years from now that contract is going to be an albatross. I know he’s had some injury issues but when he plays he is effective still. My dream defensive pairing i think (at least with only 30s of thought at 6am) would be ekholm-parayko. Two big tough monsters who can Shoot, skate and play hard.
- 10inchTerror

Yeah, I just like teammates who stick up for each other. I'm over the "just play" era.

Here's a pure hypothetical.

Rangers have indicated they would trade the #1 for a top center. Would you trade 2 years of Geno for at least 7 years of Lafreniere?

Pens might need to add but we are talking hypothetical.
- MacPatty

NY could just trade #1 to LA for #2 and another asset, and then select Byfield and get 7 yrs of him.......A much better outcome.....if Byfield pans out.