Because if it was a full season they would've make the playoffs.

Even with a team devastated by injuries that didn't play even a single game this season with a full healthy lineup.
- GreatGigInTheSky

I agree with you.

Also, we can't change what happened.. Just have to accept that it cost the Leafs the 13th overall pick

Kadri just got suspended for McAvoy's elbow on Jordan Staal.
- GreatGigInTheSky

The Kadri playoff suspension jokes will never get old.

I agree with you.

Also, we can't change what happened.. Just have to accept that it cost the Leafs the 13th overall pick
- PatC80

no you can't change it.

but the guy who did that should be fired.

we can't afford another offseason of (frank)ups.

Calgary - Dallas game tonight should be good.
Hintz is finally getting up to shape and Heiskanen has been amazing so far.
- MaximusAurelius

Are you still trying to make Roope Hintz a thing?

no you can't change it.

but the guy who did that should be fired.

we can't afford another offseason of (frank)ups.
- Tumbleweed

It is what it is

no you can't change it.

but the guy who did that should be fired.

we can't afford another offseason of (frank)ups.
- Tumbleweed

I am not ready to join the fire Dubas train, it's too soon. Let's be honest at the time of the Marleau deal to Carolina, no one thought the Leafs would miss the playoffs.

It just didn't work out as everyone hoped, and I don't think that is Dubas' fault the Leafs couldn't get by CBJ in the play in round.

The Kadri trade, we got back what was needed a top 4 RHD and a guy that could play as the #3C. Dubas had the right idea, but Barrie turned out to be a tire fire at times.

no you can't change it.

but the guy who did that should be fired.

we can't afford another offseason of (frank)ups.
- Tumbleweed

im curious what your thoughts were at the time of the Marner signing and Marleau trade

im curious what your thoughts were at the time of the Marner signing and Marleau trade
- senstroll

I know mine

Marleau had to be traded and no team was going to help the Leafs out to allow the Leafs to sign Marner. As he needed to be signed to a contract coming off of a 94 point season, but he got overpaid.

I know mine

Marleau had to be traded and no team was going to help the Leafs out to allow the Leafs to sign Marner. As he needed to be signed to a contract coming off of a 94 point season, but he got overpaid.
- PatC80

im reading through the Marner thread now, but I remember my reaction...4 mil more than willy was too much...

this a tumble prediction

My best guess right now:

10.16 x 6, signed tomorrow morning.

suck it dreger.
- Tumbleweed

thread
https://www.hockeybuzz.co...read_id=161843&forum_id=1

not to beat a dead horse or anything, but Marner would not have taken a bridge deal.
- PatC80

So let him sit.

The Kadri playoff suspension jokes will never get old.
- mjones242

Kadri playing with everything that Shanahan said the Leafs lacked at his season ending press conference: "grit and compete level".

Yes, I'm looking at you, Nylander.

I am not ready to join the fire Dubas train, it's too soon. Let's be honest at the time of the Marleau deal to Carolina, no one thought the Leafs would miss the playoffs.

It just didn't work out as everyone hoped, and I don't think that is Dubas' fault the Leafs couldn't get by CBJ in the play in round.

The Kadri trade, we got back what was needed a top 4 RHD and a guy that could play as the #3C. Dubas had the right idea, but Barrie turned out to be a tire fire at times.
- PatC80

This.

Barrie, at 50% retained, seemed like a gamble worth taking. He checked the box of a Top 4 RHD who can put up points and play 22+ mins a game.

He was utterly lost under Babs' inflexible system and I don't think he ever found his true form again after that.

Sometimes things on paper look good but they just don't turn out.

It makes you wonder how TJ Brodie would have worked out if Kadri hadn't nixxed that deal.

Meh... let's see what Dubas can do this off-season before we tar and feather him. As I've said in an another thread, this is the first time I think we can truly say he has zero excuses. He now has full accountability for this team moving forward: bad contracts have been traded, inflexible coach who doesn't share his vision is gone, coach that completely shares his vision will have a full season to work with, etc.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I am not ready to join the fire Dubas train, it's too soon. Let's be honest at the time of the Marleau deal to Carolina, no one thought the Leafs would miss the playoffs.

It just didn't work out as everyone hoped, and I don't think that is Dubas' fault the Leafs couldn't get by CBJ in the play in round.

The Kadri trade, we got back what was needed a top 4 RHD and a guy that could play as the #3C. Dubas had the right idea, but Barrie turned out to be a tire fire at times.
- PatC80

The Kadri trade was, and is, an absolute disaster.

no you can't change it.

but the guy who did that should be fired.

we can't afford another offseason of (frank)ups.
- Tumbleweed

In hindsight this year didn't pan out. Dubas certainly wasn't the only guy that believed (when he traded Marleau) that the Leafs were a playoff team. Also most pundits believed that his one year "fix" with Barrie was a good risk. And generally, buying term on young RFA's works out worse in the early years but better in the later years of the contract.

It didn't work ....noted. 30 teams will want to have a better off season.

If he was making moves that made zero sense at the time I'd be on board. But, these decisions made good sense to me (except maybe the signing of Ceci).

Marner over 3 years would have been ~ 8AAV ..if he would've signed at all. That wouldn't have been enough to keep Marleau. He would've had to have chopped another 4 million.

And guys doing 3 year deals rather than longer term are historically much more likely to leave. The 3 year deal sets up poorly for teams. The player enters his final RFA year with Arb rights giving him ALL the power he wants. He can go to Arb on a 1 yr deal and hit UFA the next year.

I'm not disagreeing that MM looks like he got 1 million too much. But I'm willing to believe there was more to this story then we know. It was always discussed that he was pissed about not getting the 4.8 milliion in rookie bonus that Matthews got. His agent referenced it during the negotiations. Some of that underpayment is probably built into his overpayment.

Dubas was in a no win ...he couldn't let MM sit like he did Willie. It was sign him to the "best" deal you can or trade him. I'm glad they didn't trade him.

The Kadri trade was, and is, an absolute disaster.
- fifty__missions

Ditto on the Marleau trade.

This.

Barrie, at 50% retained, seemed like a gamble worth taking. He checked the box of a Top 4 RHD who can put up points and play 22+ mins a game.

He was utterly lost under Babs' inflexible system and I don't think he ever found his true form again after that.

Sometimes things on paper look good but they just don't turn out.

It makes you wonder how TJ Brodie would have worked out if Kadri hadn't nixxed that deal.

Meh... let's see what Dubas can do this off-season before we tar and feather him. As I've said in an another thread, this is the first time I think we can truly say he has zero excuses. He now has full accountability for this team moving forward: bad contracts have been traded, inflexible coach who doesn't share his vision is gone, coach that completely shares his vision will have a full season to work with, etc.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
- mjones242

I'm not. Dubas' hockey philosophy - skill and puck possession above all else - have never proven to be a winning formula, most clearly in the playoffs. The Leafs deficiencies are not something I believe Dubas can remedy. The team is not balanced, nor has Dubas' expressed much commitment/interest to changing his vision. He literally said that he was "willing to bet his job" on his vision. Dubas' philosophy is perfect for winning October Cups. And we weren't even good in October.

an under rated problem that doesnt get talked about much is how bad the 2016 and 2017 drafts were for the Leafs, at the time a lot of credit was given to Mark Hunter...he never slept was always scouting....blah blah

its hard to point fingers at one person or a couple in regards to drafts..but I was told he was some scouting genius.

2015 is not much better.

But the Leafs needed to hit on a few players who could start joining the team now on ELC, but what a total pile of crap.

2018 and 2019 look a little better..at least picking late 1st and 2nd rd they hit on something...but thats a wait and see also

we were 3 points up on florida and they had a game in hand. there was no guarantee.

facts are we lost 3 out of 5 to columbus in the pre-qualifying round that was open to 24 teams and did not make the round of 16.

we were also on a 95 point pace. which was less than the prior year.
- Tumbleweed

Yes. And the not playing a single game all season with a healthy lineup was a big factor into why that was. Also, the horrid start to the season with Babcock.

You HAVE to keep Hyman. It's gotta be Billy Ny that goes.
- fifty__missions

hopefully, there's no one who claims to be a fan of the Leafs that doesn't understand this.

the Leafs' need more Hyman... less Hairlander floatiness

I'm not. Dubas' hockey philosophy - skill and puck possession above all else - have never proven to be a winning formula, most clearly in the playoffs. The Leafs deficiencies are not something I believe Dubas can remedy. The team is not balanced, nor has Dubas' expressed much commitment/interest to changing his vision. He literally said that he was "willing to bet his job" on his vision. Dubas' philosophy is perfect for winning October Cups. And we weren't even good in October.
- fifty__missions

+ according to dubie, team culture is not important

hopefully, there's no one who claims to be a fan of the Leafs that doesn't understand this.

the Leafs' need more Hyman... less Hairlander floatiness
- BorjeFan4Ever

Oh trust me, there are many. Many of them post here!

I just hope dubas does good work this summer and it pays off so there's more to read on here than page after page of dumbass problems and solutions. I'm (frank)ing pumped a good chunk of you don't run this team. 🤦‍♂️

Yes. And the not playing a single game all season with a healthy lineup was a big factor into why that was. Also, the horrid start to the season with Babcock.
- GreatGigInTheSky

To be fair to Babcock, first 20 games or so of season was virtually only against what later would be playoff teams.
Then Keefe took over with a really easy dece$ber schedule

I agree with you.

Also, we can't change what happened.. Just have to accept that it cost the Leafs the 13th overall pick
- PatC80

Yup. It's been a poop sandwich year. No reason to think the Leafs fortunes should be any different.

This.

Barrie, at 50% retained, seemed like a gamble worth taking. He checked the box of a Top 4 RHD who can put up points and play 22+ mins a game.

He was utterly lost under Babs' inflexible system and I don't think he ever found his true form again after that.

Sometimes things on paper look good but they just don't turn out.

It makes you wonder how TJ Brodie would have worked out if Kadri hadn't nixxed that deal.

Meh... let's see what Dubas can do this off-season before we tar and feather him. As I've said in an another thread, this is the first time I think we can truly say he has zero excuses. He now has full accountability for this team moving forward: bad contracts have been traded, inflexible coach who doesn't share his vision is gone, coach that completely shares his vision will have a full season to work with, etc.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
- mjones242

agree with everything you said except one part is inconsistent on Dubas part.

He(Dubas) supposed to be the "analytics" guy.. and its pretty clear that type of d-man the Leafs needed wasn't and ISN'T the type of D-man Barrie is. Stats showed that Barrie was quite a bit worse than Jake Gardiner defensively.

So while the trade was a good risk to take - the player he acquired was a "splash"... which turned into a belly-flop.

Unfortunately it seems that Dubas doesn't want to address what the obvious problems are.