Start listing the positives.

Don't bother starting with the 40 million dollar babies. They have proven that they are not taking the team anywhere. If you want to argue that, explain us to when they have shown otherwise.

Positives
MLSE has money
Toronto supports the team

the end.
- Aetherial

My god.

Some of you guys are acting like this is equivalent to the Kessel/Phaneuf years. It's not.

It has been four years since the Leafs finished last and drafted Auston Matthews. Have they taken a step back? sure. But the idea that this group will never win because they haven't done it in the four years since bottoming out is asinine.

no. i thought it was overpay on marner. but all signs were pointing to an overpay.
- Tumbleweed

The options were two ...1. Make the best deal you can by October 1st; or 2. Trade Mitch.

If you don't like number 1 then you have to accept that you were onboard with number 2.

And don't tell me you would've let him sit all year b/c this isn't Harold Ballard circa 1988.

and dubas is chasing is own tail.

trades martin away. then give up assets for clifford.

trades zaitsev. overpays kerfoot.

trades a 1st to dump marleau. overpays marner.
- Tumbleweed

Clifford costed 750K on the cap not 2.5 million. Not comparable at all dude.

Zaitzev is a bottom pairing d making 30 million.

Kerfoot is a 3c making 14 million.

Marleau was a 39 year old 4th liner getting paid 6 million. Marner is a 22 year old 94 point player getting paid 11 million.

BuT duBaS OvErPaYeD MaRnzEr

Maybe you could justify $10.5 till 2026 because it's Price and maybe you could rationalize it in the context of the expectation of a rising cap but not at his age when you don't know when the decline will begin
- Canada Cup

If Leafs won a Cup in the next 3 years would you care if you ate the last 3 years of that contract?

I don't want to argue. I have my opinion, you have yours.
- bixll

THAT attitude is fine.

It is when yu describe Leafs fans as a poopshow that you better have something behind your words.

Anything big coming from the farm? No.
Any firsts last year and this year? No.
40 million dollar babies won us even one round? No.
Any cap space? No.

Picks/prospects, the cap situation, the team performance... all bad.

Things are worse now, not better and nor proressing. If you have faith this core had the desire or ability to turn it around, I am not sure what team you have been watching.

My god.

Some of you guys are acting like this is equivalent to the Kessel/Phaneuf years. It's not.

It has been four years since the Leafs finished last and drafted Auston Matthews. Have they taken a step back? sure. But the idea that this group will never win because they haven't done it in the four years since bottoming out is asinine.
- Leafs43

I like to give up on 22 year old players if they haven't won a cup yet.


Losers.

My god.

Some of you guys are acting like this is equivalent to the Kessel/Phaneuf years. It's not.

It has been four years since the Leafs finished last and drafted Auston Matthews. Have they taken a step back? sure. But the idea that this group will never win because they haven't done it in the four years since bottoming out is asinine.
- Leafs43

There would have to be recognizable change in their will to win and their mental toughness.

Nobody doubts their ability or even doubts that they have not reached their peak. what is very much in question though is their heart.

It isn't losing, it is repeated losing, and coming up VERY small in big games.

That is no laughing matter.
- Aetherial

The reactions are

You guys just keep bringing nothing to the table.

I mean, if you had counterpoints I would like to hear them. So far, nothing. Just derision with nothing behind it.

The reactions are
- Canada Cup

So, you also?

No counterpoints, just derision.

Nothing?

and dubas is chasing is own tail.

trades martin away. then give up assets for clifford.

trades zaitsev. overpays kerfoot.

trades a 1st to dump marleau. overpays marner.
- Tumbleweed

Are these being used as examples of bad ideas?!

Martin was making 2.5 on term ....
Zaitsev 4.5 x 7 ...
Kerfoot, we get it you hate him, he's not as bad as you think. His comps are on point.
Keep Marleaus 6.25 hit and see how good that Defence would have been this year.
Marner ...where would you have traded him?

Dubas deserves the heat for some of his draftings/trades/signings. But you're picking the wrong ones.

I'd give him heat for misreading the room on Barrie (and then not moving him as the year went on), signing Ceci after the very good trade of Zaitsev, and missing the boat on a back up goalie for the first half the year.

Those would be my complaints.

You guys just keep bringing nothing to the table.

I mean, if you had counterpoints I would like to hear them. So far, nothing. Just derision with nothing behind it.
- Aetherial

Can I bring chips?

I can also make a pretty good caesar salad.

Love this logic

Team is in the first round of the playoffs.

This means paying a 4th liner 2.5 million is a good thing.
- Santo_44

the islanders are probably gonna win the first round then who knows?

they have a great coach and, obviously, good playoff performers with just enough skillz👍

not to mention, a team mentality with everyone skating their asses off, performing their roles not worrying about the next contract or sick snipes and dirty dangles 👍🏿

There would have to be recognizable change in their will to win and their mental toughness.

Nobody doubts their ability or even doubts that they have not reached their peak. what is very much in question though is their heart.

It isn't losing, it is repeated losing, and coming up VERY small in big games.
- Aetherial

If watching the NHL has taught me anything it is to not get too high or too low.

NYI goes from the 30th placed team in Defense to 1st the next year and sweeps the Pens.

The Caps have half a decade of consecutive exits and after fans whining they will never win with Ovi they win the cup.

Mackinnon is a bust only getting 50-60 points a year the first 4 years of his career now he is a top 3 player in the league and arguably the best.

Habs fans were whining Price is done as they were the 24th place team in the league and now he is the only reason they are in the playoffs.

Dubas gives up a 3rd for Clifford and lets Gards walk for nothing and he is crucified for it but somehow CBJ is a model franchise while they gave up multiple 1sts and top notch prospects for Duchene and Dzingle and came up with zilch.

90% of Leaf fans are on this earth to complain and waste their time doing it. Sure lets talk about what they need to improve but watching the doomsday and "we can never win with this team and they PROVED that" crowd is insane. 90% of the time those fans look stupid in the end.

the islanders are probably gonna win the first round then who knows?

they have a great coach and, obviously, good playoff performers with just enough skillz👍

not to mention, a team mentality with everyone skating their asses off, performing their roles not worrying about the next contract or sick snipes and dirty dangles 👍🏿
- Skalapy

The issue with teams like Columbus and Islanders is they may win a round but that's it. They do lack the high end skill just like Leafs add certain things. The cup is all that matters. I hate the "Won a round" comment. That never mattered when thee Leafs won rounds.

You can work hard all you want you still won't win a cup without enough elite talent.

the islanders are probably gonna win the first round then who knows?

they have a great coach and, obviously, good playoff performers with just enough skillz👍

not to mention, a team mentality with everyone skating their asses off, performing their roles not worrying about the next contract or sick snipes and dirty dangles 👍🏿
- Skalapy

Model franchise.

Funny how short peoples memories are, they were 30th in D stats 2 years ago.

So, you also?

No counterpoints, just derision.

Nothing?
- Aetherial

Why bother ??

There would have to be recognizable change in their will to win and their mental toughness.

Nobody doubts their ability or even doubts that they have not reached their peak. what is very much in question though is their heart.

It isn't losing, it is repeated losing, and coming up VERY small in big games.
- Aetherial

I think you're right... But I don't think that's all on them.

Granting these kids the forum to grow is about providing them the opportunity to succeed, and that to me is about providing them with a more balanced team which isn't so depended on them to sink or swim.

That, and time. I mean Marner and Matthews are what... 22/23? What can realistically be expected by this point from them?

Don't even want to (frank)in talk about where I was at that age. 🤦‍♂️

You guys just keep bringing nothing to the table.

I mean, if you had counterpoints I would like to hear them. So far, nothing. Just derision with nothing behind it.
- Aetherial

....who guys?

One of your dumb comments again.
Rich people generally tend to become rich because they care about money.
As well, there is a principle to this as well - status in the room is linked to salary for sure.
And Hyman's family might have money, doesn't mean he doesn't want to earn his own money
- MaximusAurelius

Dude

He may or may not

He has the luxury of not having to worry about money as much as other players

that is all, I am not here to have a pointless argument with you about wether he would or not. Me or you know absolutely (frank) all about what he wants.

Can I bring chips?

I can also make a pretty good caesar salad.
- Scabeh

Can I bring chips?

I can also make a pretty good caesar salad.
- Scabeh

It is just ridiculous.

You cannot look at team performance and say it is getting better. You can't look at 3 of the big 4 and say they aren't overpaid. I mean, you *can* if you want to ignore numbers or pick and choose ONE stat that you like.

You can't argue we don't have firsts the last couple years.

You can't argue that our best prospect is yet another very small forward.

You can't argue that we don't have the cap space to address that most glaring problems on the team

and you can't argue that these problems are new.

So while everyone is all full of their own opinion. I have yet to hear what they are basing it on.

Can I bring chips?

I can also make a pretty good caesar salad.
- Scabeh

(frank) that ...Caesar salads are either good or not good. Just like Dubas' decisions.

....who guys?
- The Law

and dubas is chasing is own tail.

trades martin away. then give up assets for clifford.

trades zaitsev. overpays kerfoot.

trades a 1st to dump marleau. overpays marner.
- Tumbleweed

I love how you leave out the whole getting a very good backup in his prime on a great contract with Clifford(Jack Campbell)

Martin was too expensive and even Babcock wasn't playing him. Clifford was much cheaper without term.