Wiz, what do you think about Tuch's younger brother Luke? Seems to be a 2nd rounder in this draft and possibly within grasp of Chicago if they deem him best player available when they pick.
- AEL_Fox

Oh Lord, please no. Can you imagine Pat and Eddie with Luke Tuch?

JC should give Dach a tape of Alex Tuch this series. You can't score if you don't shoot.
- LAHawk

Just curious what do you think about this saliva test U of I is implementing, since you seem to know some things about this?

This is coaching and positioning I think the forwards are too far from the D men or even too far from each other on rushes. Much easier to miss your man or have it intercepted. Vegas had lots of short crisp passes on the rush. Then again, it could be the skill level too as well as how well or not well the Hawks were able to block lanes. Vegas did a great job of that while Edmonton did not. I'm no coach by any means but I wonder if this is an adjustment JC could have made.
- Popsghostly

I think it's also experience? But i get what you're saying

"Instead, we got John Quenneville. Listen, I thought Quenneville played well last night. He was throwing his body around and he made some key defensive plays. I don't think he should have played as much as he did, however, he was more useful than Nylander in a physical series like that."

I agree with this. Not saying there weren't better choices overall than JQ, but between the two, JQ gets the nod. I suspect neither Nylander nor Quenneville will be in the Hawks system next season.

Here are the two main buyout candidates:

Zack Smith: https://www.capfriendly.c...out-calculator/zack-smith

Olli Maatta: https://www.capfriendly.c...t-calculator/olli-maatta1

Seabrook's buyout cost is exorbitant: https://www.capfriendly.c...calculator/brent-seabrook

That should get most of Kubalik's salary next year.

No idea what to do with Strome, as in how much to pay him, or what the return for him should be.

I would sign Caggiula. $2 mill should do it.

Boqvist obviously needs to live in the weight room between now and camp. I can only hope they didn't bring him up too soon and damage his career in doing so.

As for Crow, they should do a thorough exam to see if there is any lingering effects from Covid. That's assuming he still wants to play.

Here's hoping that Seabrook and DeHaan will both be 100% when camp opens.
- 333inthe3rd

Smith should definitely be bought out. If you're looking to make changes on the backend Maatta could be moved. His play in these Playoffs will definitely attract attention from some team and they can make a trade.

My two cents. I try to be an optimist but I would give the Hawks a 50-50 chance of making the playoffs next year. We all have just witnessed many of the team's shortcomings these past couple of weeks. So many questions and concerns to address.

1. Utilizing a defensive system either that the players haven't bought into, or don't have the proper personnel to run it. JC has had the majority of 2 seasons to implement it and the result is the Hawks have been near the top, or at the top of the league in giving up HDSC the last 2 years.

2. Several injury prone players including Shaw, Seabrook, deHaan, Smith. Given their history, chances are a couple of these guys won't be contributing much next year. Maybe you could buy out Smith, but the others aren't retiring and walking away from their contracts and would be difficult to move in a trade.

3. On paper the forward group looks serviceable with Kane, Toews, Dach, Debrincat, Kubalik, Saad and possibly Strome in the top 9, but was Debrincat's 40 goal season and Kubalik's last season an outlier and something we shouldn't count on consistently in the future? Is Saad a 6M luxury a cap strapped team can afford? Is Strome another 1 year wonder? Will the light bulb turn on for Nylander? The Rockford forward prospects are basically bottom 6 and could add some grit and tenaciousness down the road, but will they be difference makers?

4. With respect to Duncan, there are no top pairing defensemen. Keith’s last few games were nothing to write home about, but he is still a serviceable second pairing guy. The rest of the defense is a combination of aging and/or injury prone veterans like Seabrook and deHaan, a 2nd pairing guy in Murphy, a 3rd pairing guy in Maatta, a young player in Boqvist that was clearly overmatched these past 2 weeks, and a serviceable 7D in Koekkoek. Kids like Carlsson, Beaudin, Mitchell et. al. may be decent in a year or two, but their play will come with growing pains.

5. Who's going to be in goal next year? Will Crawford come back, or should I say would he want to come back given the state of the Hawks defensive play? Is Cro's play the past couple of weeks indicative of his future play, or do we give him a pass for coming off his bout with Covid-19? Anybody want to bet if Subban, Delia or Lankinen is the next Binnington and becomes a #1 goalie?

There's more I'm sure. Is JC the right coach? How is Stan going to manipulate the cap and get his RFA's and a #1 goalie signed? etc. etc.
- boilermaker100

#1 is spot on. I'd add that you can't just blame JC for not having the right pieces. He tried to implement a system (whether it is a good system is a different topic) that he did not have the right pieces for.

Coaches job is to maximize the talent of his players. JC's system does not maximize the talent he has on D. Keith is really the only one with enough foot speed to play it.

This is the same thing with the dump and chase. Hawks forwards are not a group of dump and chase cycle players. Yet JC tried to play that system to start the year.


I think AEL_Fox mentioned poor spacing. JC's defensive system creates horrible spacing. My understanding is your are man to man until you pass off the puck carrier to another Hawks D or FW. Essentially, you end up with 2 Hawks players in close proximity to each other during the "pass off". This leaves a FW or D covering 2 players. Really not hard for an opposing team to pick that system apart.

As soon as you pass of the puck carrier, you have to scramble to get back into position.

"Instead, we got John Quenneville. Listen, I thought Quenneville played well last night. He was throwing his body around and he made some key defensive plays. I don't think he should have played as much as he did, however, he was more useful than Nylander in a physical series like that."

I agree with this. Not saying there weren't better choices overall than JQ, but between the two, JQ gets the nod. I suspect neither Nylander nor Quenneville will be in the Hawks system next season.
- grinder10

Quenneville sure but I don't see them giving up on Nylander so soon. I suppose they could trade him but I would like to see if he's able to figure it out next season. Like someone mentioned, his space on the team likely won't be guaranteed.

14 posts. That is how I'll remember this post season (pun intended). That should be at least a few goals if the hockey gods were kind. I know that 2 in particular were off the inside of the crossbar (Dach/Toews).

Colliton not using a timeout with 2 minutes left and then rolling our 4th liners with T&K on the bench in dying minutes.....I can think of no other coach in the league that would do that. Just mindblown by the idiocy there.


Matta, Murphy, and Highmore were pleasant surprises. Don't even need to mention Dach - wow. I though deHaan was playing better than Keith pre-injury. He was a big letdown in the 2 series, one of the reasons we didn't win a couple more. But the 2 biggest issues were clearly Nylander and Boqvist. Combined for zero points and a -9. Literally, dead weight for 9 games. Ouch.
- ItHossaGood

Playing Boqvist and Nylander was a recipe for losing .Boqvist should have been spending this season and maybe next in London under Hunter guidance definitely a miss guided P R move . Nylander is useless and after watching his brother playing scared for Toronto I have little faith he will amount to anything . The HAWKS should be in the market for a new head coach and maybe GM also ..

Quenneville sure but I don't see them giving up on Nylander so soon. I suppose they could trade him but I would like to see if he's able to figure it out next season. Like someone mentioned, his space on the team likely won't be guaranteed.
- HawkintheD

As frustrating as Nylander was, we cannot afford to give up on the kid yet. We've made that mistake far too many times. He plays for a role next year and if he doesn't earn it then he needs to go to Rockford and be coached up to do so. We need him to become a difference maker at some point. If you trade him now you'll be trading him for pennies on the dollar and it'll make giving Joker up that much more ridiculous

"Instead, we got John Quenneville. Listen, I thought Quenneville played well last night. He was throwing his body around and he made some key defensive plays. I don't think he should have played as much as he did, however, he was more useful than Nylander in a physical series like that."

I agree with this. Not saying there weren't better choices overall than JQ, but between the two, JQ gets the nod. I suspect neither Nylander nor Quenneville will be in the Hawks system next season.
- grinder10

you would get nothing for nylander right now. he put up 10 goals in 65 games. he just turned 22. what I would do is keep him in chicago and work with him for the next 3 months. worse case you expose him in the expansion draft. he has only played 84 games in the NHL. The hawks should have one of the best off season training programs around. they have great facilites and $$$. need a speed skater to train Strome murph and maata.

Just curious what do you think about this saliva test U of I is implementing, since you seem to know some things about this?
- BetweenTheDots

Saliva testing is what we are working on. We are looking at doing it in 15 minutes though, as opposed to 2-6 hours.

With that bolded sentence in mind, would love to hear your thoughts on when they will know with Nylander.
- 333inthe3rd

Well the message was sent prior to game time yesterday.

It isn't like the league wasn't aware that Nylander had great skill and recognition as an offensive generator
This is also a tale: so many kids with offensive gifts and teams just wanting it to be a swift transition to impact all around player like Florida trading Owen Tippett so freaking high as another example.

Scotty, this fair and balanced enough from 2016?

https://www.draftsite.com...alexander-nylander/22602/

Playing Boqvist and Nylander was a recipe for losing .Boqvist should have been spending this season and maybe next in London under Hunter guidance definitely a miss guided P R move . Nylander is useless and after watching his brother playing scared for Toronto I have little faith he will amount to anything . The HAWKS should be in the market for a new head coach and maybe GM also ..
- oldduffman

People complained about Kaner being afraid of contact in his early years as well but he grew into it. Hell saw him throw the body plenty of times in this series and you would have never seen that from him years ago. Perhaps he can lead by example for Nylander. Kid has skills but seems to be lacking the understanding of knowing where to be at times. Perhaps this is inexperience but we need for him to develop

As frustrating as Nylander was, we cannot afford to give up on the kid yet. We've made that mistake far too many times. He plays for a role next year and if he doesn't earn it then he needs to go to Rockford and be coached up to do so. We need him to become a difference maker at some point. If you trade him now you'll be trading him for pennies on the dollar and it'll make giving Joker up that much more ridiculous
- Savetheembers33

Agree. It's been talked about here quite a bit yet some have short memories. While the "anything can happen when you get into the dance" thing sounds good, in reality I think we all knew it wasn't likely the Hawks advanced past this round and that the most important thing was getting a lot of the younger players some playoff experience.

Mission accomplished.

Which has so much to do with the fact we virtually have no possession game, terrible turnovers at both blue lines and our own zone
- BetweenTheDots

A lot of it is shape and how they break out. The forwards are chasing guys low and the defenders are chasing guys high. If and when they do get the puck back they need to play patty cake a handful of times, then exit the zone and then try to get past a team that has had plenty of time to set up.

They yield the blue line pretty readily and to be fair, probably don't have enough speed on the blue line to step into plays in the neutral zone anyway. They also have issues chasing the puck deep mostly because of the aforementioned speed issues.

So, the team plays slowly because they lack organization and shape and do not have any type of counter attack threat. Teams can sit back and wait for them to come which allows them to jam up the neutral zone and take away anything but a dump and chase.

They're easy to beat with a little bit of movement and catching guys in a switch or not paying attention and easy to stop since they're slow and predictable.

Agree. It's been talked about here quite a bit yet some have short memories. While the "anything can happen when you get into the dance" thing sounds good, in reality I think we all knew it wasn't likely the Hawks advanced past this round and that the most important thing was getting a lot of the younger players some playoff experience.

Mission accomplished.
- HawkintheD

100% time to build forward and find the right pieces to fit into the puzzle.

Either we're gonna see a VERY similar team going into next year because they can't or don't want to do much with the uncertainty of the next season.

OR

They make some kind of big change like trading Keith and letting Crow leave and continue to let the kids grow and get a shot

As frustrating as Nylander was, we cannot afford to give up on the kid yet. We've made that mistake far too many times. He plays for a role next year and if he doesn't earn it then he needs to go to Rockford and be coached up to do so. We need him to become a difference maker at some point. If you trade him now you'll be trading him for pennies on the dollar and it'll make giving Joker up that much more ridiculous
- Savetheembers33

Sure can.

#1 is spot on. I'd add that you can't just blame JC for not having the right pieces. He tried to implement a system (whether it is a good system is a different topic) that he did not have the right pieces for.

Coaches job is to maximize the talent of his players. JC's system does not maximize the talent he has on D. Keith is really the only one with enough foot speed to play it.

This is the same thing with the dump and chase. Hawks forwards are not a group of dump and chase cycle players. Yet JC tried to play that system to start the year.


I think AEL_Fox mentioned poor spacing. JC's defensive system creates horrible spacing. My understanding is your are man to man until you pass off the puck carrier to another Hawks D or FW. Essentially, you end up with 2 Hawks players in close proximity to each other during the "pass off". This leaves a FW or D covering 2 players. Really not hard for an opposing team to pick that system apart.

As soon as you pass of the puck carrier, you have to scramble to get back into position.
- bhawks2241

Ummm isn't the mark of a good coach getting the most of what you got?

As frustrating as Nylander was, we cannot afford to give up on the kid yet. We've made that mistake far too many times. He plays for a role next year and if he doesn't earn it then he needs to go to Rockford and be coached up to do so. We need him to become a difference maker at some point. If you trade him now you'll be trading him for pennies on the dollar and it'll make giving Joker up that much more ridiculous
- Savetheembers33

Nylander is going to get a qualifying offer at or slightly above the 10% minimum Bowman has to extend. So he has some value to the team next year just because he will be cheap. There have been flashes of positive development, just not enough yet to make anybody happy.

Oh Lord, please no. Can you imagine Pat and Eddie with Luke Tuch?
- Chunk

luke tuch with the puck!!

Like every youngster Nylander learned why teams win in the playoffs and it has a lot to do with having the ability to impose your will into the game.

To do so you keep improving where you are not complete to compete...

People complained about Kaner being afraid of contact in his early years as well but he grew into it. Hell saw him throw the body plenty of times in this series and you would have never seen that from him years ago. Perhaps he can lead by example for Nylander. Kid has skills but seems to be lacking the understanding of knowing where to be at times. Perhaps this is inexperience but we need for him to develop
- Savetheembers33

Teuvo "alligator arms" Terravanen

Nylander is going to get a qualifying offer at or slightly above the 10% minimum Bowman has to extend. So he has some value to the team next year just because he will be cheap. There have been flashes of positive development, just not enough yet to make anybody happy.
- RickJ

He isn't getting a qualifying offer, he is on his ELC until the end of next year.

Sure can.
- fattybeef

See example.

Teuvo "alligator arms" Terravanen
- LAHawk

Ummm isn't the mark of a good coach getting the most of what you got?
- fattybeef

Who's to day that he didn't? He had enough players for 2 adequate-to-above-average forward lines and 1.5 defensive pairings. Not to mention the only viable goaltender was just coming off of COVID.

I'm not a big Colliton fan, but anyone thinking that another coach would have made a notable difference is kidding themselves.

Yes, Colliton made the head-scratcher of putting JQ in and playing him a lot. Is that the reason they lost? No. They were completely overmatched top to bottom. No scheme, line combo or substitution would have changed the outcome. Maybe if all of those posts were goals, but even then with the way that Vegas plays, they would have still been overpowering the Hawks.