The NHL and it's sportswriter clearly have Makar's offensive powers in their hands but those three defenders in Dallas are really good. H, K and L...

If you loo at the two Tampa deadline pick ups they add the heavy...this was what StanBo attempted to due when he traded Danault and a 2nd order for Dale Weise &
Tomas Fleischmann, except they weren't Barclay Goodrow and Blake Coleman
- wiz1901

Hey Bill, I asked this earlier in this thread but it went unanswered so I'll try again.

In your opinion, if Pius Suter were in this draft (at his current age) - would he be a 1st rounder? I realize comparing a 23 year old with pro experience to 18 year old amateurs is an apples/oranges comparison, but I'm trying to get a feel for what his skill level is compared with the projected skill levels of the guys who will be selected in the 1st round.

Keep the puck in the other teams end more than your own and stop blaming the coach in a nutshell...
- rpeters01

Red font? That sounds like Marcus Kruger.

So he basically admits his system completely breaks down if a shift is longer the 45 secs? These are pro athletes. You’re never going to beat the guy your up against every time.

Aside from all the chasing this is my problem with the system! It requires perfection and everything to be right in order to work. If that doesn’t happen the Hawks end up buried in their end and being out chances 2 to 1 most nights.
- bhawks2241

Virtually every coach in the league would say the exact same thing about their team. This is a pretty stock answer. I'm not a big fan of Colliton, he is not wrong here.

And for those of you who wanted the answers to the Toews game 3 decision scenario:

Q: A few of your decisions that had been second-guessed after the Vegas series were having Jonathan Toews on the bench and not using a timeout at the end of Game 3 and the quality and quantity of ice time you gave John Quenneville in Game 5. Do you regret any of those decisions or could you further explain them?

Toews Answer: After a series and after every game, you look at some of the things you did and you walk it back and say is there another door we could open. All I can do is you go through it and look at the reasons why. The timeout in Game 3 … First of all, Tazer, they had an offensive zone faceoff at four minutes and didn’t work out. They ended up getting hemmed in for a minute. I think that took a lot out of him. And then when we got his next shift, I think it was around the two-minute mark. He just looked like he didn’t have any juice. Looking at him on the bench too, just felt like he was gassed. I didn’t think that 30 seconds was going to be enough to get him ready to go.


- pdx2ord[PDX: me thinks Toews might have had another opinion on this...Boyle from NBC called BS on this on the podcast today]

I'm 100% sure Toews would say otherwise. Does that mean he is right? Numerous people here said the same thing - that Toews looked gassed a lot of the time. The coach has to do what he thinks is best for the team whether we (or the players in question) think it is right or wrong.

Not that I have any huge love from Strome, but he won the face-off (twice actually after they had to redo it). People rag on the fact that de Haan was out there, well he was one of the few who got a shot on goal there. Second guessing is easy after a team loses. I would have several questions for Colliton decisions (Quenneville?, Playing Nylander so long, Playing ADB on the top line - in place of Kubalik I think - during all of the practices only to drop him back down right when the games start, etc). I also don't have nearly the access to information that the coach does.

This isn't a dig at you PDX. I'm just throwing my 8 cents out there.

Red font? That sounds like Marcus Kruger.
- Chunk

Our guys are not strong enough, fast enough, big enough, good enough whatever, to be able to cycle the puck which is a minimum 5 on 5 to win. There's Kane, Toews, Saad and Dach I'm speaking of Forwards and that's about it.

Caps fire their coach Todd Reirdon. He took over after WSH let Trotz go after he won the Cup 2 years ago. Two early playoff exits with Reirdon behind the bench. Wonder if Gallant will land that job.

Well ok then, Walsh stepping it up:


- walleyeb1

The goaltending situation in Vegas is a bit ironic.

In Chicago, Lehner complained about losing the net to Crawford and implied it was unjustified. He then goes to Vegas and takes over the net making Fleury feel he lost the net for no justifiable reason.

Our guys are not strong enough, fast enough, big enough, good enough whatever, to be able to cycle the puck which is a minimum 5 on 5 to win. There's Kane, Toews, Saad and Dach I'm speaking of Forwards and that's about it.
- rpeters01

That's fair. We differ on Kubalik, but I can't argue much with your rationale

Holloway! I like him a lot.
- Tyler Cameron

Holloway appears to be a good choice and I’d be happy if the Hawks draft him. While depending on who is available at #17 I would be leaning towards Connor Zary.

I like Wiz’s second round prediction for the Hawks - William Dufour.

So he basically admits his system completely breaks down if a shift is longer the 45 secs? These are pro athletes. You’re never going to beat the guy your up against every time.

Aside from all the chasing this is my problem with the system! It requires perfection and everything to be right in order to work. If that doesn’t happen the Hawks end up buried in their end and being out chances 2 to 1 most nights.
- bhawks2241

Correct me if I'm wrong , but wasn't this the same crap system JC installed day 1 after taking over for coach Q that led them to loss after loss last year and the core coming out speaking loudly of concern for this system?

So he basically admits his system completely breaks down if a shift is longer the 45 secs? These are pro athletes. You’re never going to beat the guy your up against every time.

Aside from all the chasing this is my problem with the system! It requires perfection and everything to be right in order to work. If that doesn’t happen the Hawks end up buried in their end and being out chances 2 to 1 most nights.
- bhawks2241

What Colliton is describing isn't rocket science: if the team can't clear the zone, of course your players will get tired.

The issue is when D structure breaks. They need to find ways to defend in other ways that are fundamentally smart until the structure is established again.

IMO, even in absence of a structure, each player should at least make simple smart plays in all zones.

Many goals allowed were the result of this in addition to poor/no structure.

Correct me if I'm wrong , but wasn't this the same crap system JC installed day 1 after taking over for coach Q that led them to loss after loss last year and the core coming out speaking loudly of concern for this system?
- Taylorst1

If you want to call basically the same system Trotz uses crap, then sure. The problem is not the system. It is the implementation of it, which comes down to the coaches being able to instill the principles of said system and the players ability and willingness to do so.

Cups have been won with a number of different systems or philosophies..

What Colliton is describing isn't rocket science: if the team can't clear the zone, of course your players will get tired.

The issue is when D structure breaks. They need to find ways to defend in other ways that are fundamentally smart until the structure is established again.

IMO, even in absence of a structure, each player should at least make simple smart plays in all zones.

Many goals allowed were the result of this in addition to poor/no structure.
- AEL_Fox

I know there are systems in hockey - but this isn’t football, or even basketball - hockey breaks down too easily and too often to worry as much about a system.

Players need to be aware of the situation, where the puck is, where the opponents are on the ice, where their teammates are - where the holes are that need to becovered up. Then, as you say, the need to play smart enough to get to where they need to be.

A lot of responsibility on the players - but that’s what players at this level need to be able to do.

I know there are systems in hockey - but this isn’t football, or even basketball - hockey breaks down too easily and too often to worry as much about a system.

Players need to be aware of the situation, where the puck is, where the opponents are on the ice, where their teammates are - where the holes are that need to becovered up. Then, as you say, the need to play smart enough to get to where they need to be.

A lot of responsibility on the players - but that’s what players at this level need to be able to do.
- StLBravesFan

New best friend!

Hey Bill, I asked this earlier in this thread but it went unanswered so I'll try again.

In your opinion, if Pius Suter were in this draft (at his current age) - would he be a 1st rounder? I realize comparing a 23 year old with pro experience to 18 year old amateurs is an apples/oranges comparison, but I'm trying to get a feel for what his skill level is compared with the projected skill levels of the guys who will be selected in the 1st round.
- EbonyRaptor

Wow, good question and one that takes me out of my comfort zone, so it’s worth me going through the mental gymnastics. But I want to take it from the end around.
In HIS initial draft year, Pius Suter didn’t impress or display enough talent to has his name in my database, mostly because I wasn’t spending the full time to add every eligible, just the ones I felt had a better chance of actually getting selected.
I went back and looked at that draft class of 2014 and NO ONE who attempted mock drafts had him anywhere either.
So compare that with 526 kids in this years database, and in their draft year 2020, there are about 44 guys that I think, COULD get selected in the first round.
In 2014, Suter had just come over to the OHL and his 9 goals and 24 points were an indication that he was one of the late bloomers.
The next season he had 72 points (43 goals) and did get noticed and I found him on the draft lists around the early 5th round, about slot #131, ahead of both Dennis Gilbert and Ryan Shea. At one point early on in Novembe,r I had him ranked about 160, but quickly found other interesting players and my fickle manner bounced him of my list
HE went back to Switzerland after he wasn’t draft that second year and in the next two years I never had him in my top 220 of possible selections 2016, or 2017.
https://www.draftsite.com.../player/pius-suter/20904/. —

So instead of jumping right into the growth of Suter, I think this exercise speaks to the fact there are players that don’t get selected or taken late and put in the work and can and will get chances to be major league players in mid and low end roles.
Suter is a hard working Centre-forward who plays fearless against bigger players and has shown edginess in the pro league he has played in.
(So how many draft eligible 2020 kids are gonna walk in and show that?)

Like with Dach, the 2020 kids have to go through the metamorphosis that brings the realization, “I can play in this league!”

Pius Suter, presently, is a hockey smart, two-way player, who can kill penalties, makes very good puck decisions, and has been good along the wall and is smaller not overly physical but froggy enough to not back down.

Now to attempt to answer your question:
(How does his skill level compare with the projected skill levels of the guys who will be selected in the 1st round?)

I think all the forwards in my first round have more skill and upside than Suter.
If fact I think you could take the guys in my second round and except for the ones that need skating improvements, they also have bigger upside.

The 'hawks added Pius Suter as a complementary piece and team draft in the top rounds looking for skill, feet, and upside, whether the prospects emerge as NHLers or not.
Right now, Suter is at a high water mark.

If he comes in, and score 18-25 goals, he reached the next high water mark.
Very few of the prospects can be expected to come in score 18 goals from the onset.

But once established a few will get there with regularity I imagine.

I hope this tome did your query justice.

Holloway appears to be a good choice and I’d be happy if the Hawks draft him. While depending on who is available at #17 I would be leaning towards Connor Zary.

I like Wiz’s second round prediction for the Hawks - William Dufour.
- DarthKane

I just love the way he ended the year.
I was afraid to have people read the profile because I dint want to get him drafted in the first round.

The think is Quebec and Montreal have so many picks they can afford to reach or use their picks to move up in to spots and snap up guys they like.

You still are gonna wait for Dufour but there seems too be something there that could be a terrific steal....

I just love the way he ended the year.
I was afraid to have people read the profile because I dint want to get him drafted in the first round.

The think is Quebec and Montreal have so many picks they can afford to reach or use their picks to move up in to spots and snap up guys they like.

You still are gonna wait for Dufour but there seems too be something there that could be a terrific steal....
- wiz1901

It all depends who’s still on the board when the Hawks are up, but I’m wondering if the Hawks do a deal like #17 and #46 to Ottawa for #22 and #33. Drafting #33 instead of #46 would help improve the Hawks chance of drafting Dufour in the 2nd round. There would still be solid prospect available at #22 too.

I know there are systems in hockey - but this isn’t football, or even basketball - hockey breaks down too easily and too often to worry as much about a system.

Players need to be aware of the situation, where the puck is, where the opponents are on the ice, where their teammates are - where the holes are that need to becovered up. Then, as you say, the need to play smart enough to get to where they need to be.

A lot of responsibility on the players - but that’s what players at this level need to be able to do.
- StLBravesFan

Hope you were watching the 500. Your favorite anthem singer was singing "Back Home In Indiana". Special...

I hope this tome did your query justice.
- wiz1901

Yes it did. Thanks Bill.

I know there are systems in hockey - but this isn’t football, or even basketball - hockey breaks down too easily and too often to worry as much about a system.

Players need to be aware of the situation, where the puck is, where the opponents are on the ice, where their teammates are - where the holes are that need to becovered up. Then, as you say, the need to play smart enough to get to where they need to be.

A lot of responsibility on the players - but that’s what players at this level need to be able to do.
- StLBravesFan

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

To me, it's like baseball: no matter where the ball is hit, all 9 players on the field need to know where to be and what to do next in every situation, especially if a routine play goes awry.

No one is an inactive participant. If you are, then your head isn't in the game.

The Hawks puck watched a lot or just didn't execute fundamental plays in both benign and critical situations.

I know there are systems in hockey - but this isn’t football, or even basketball - hockey breaks down too easily and too often to worry as much about a system.

Players need to be aware of the situation, where the puck is, where the opponents are on the ice, where their teammates are - where the holes are that need to becovered up. Then, as you say, the need to play smart enough to get to where they need to be.

A lot of responsibility on the players - but that’s what players at this level need to be able to do.
- StLBravesFan

That (and responses from Chunk and Theo) answers my earlier question of why this should/could work, but isn't. I feel like the team is split into almost thirds - 1/3 has the willingness and skill/smarts to work within JC's system, 1/3 is still resisting changing or unable to change their old habits, and 1/3 are not bright or quick enough to make it work.

Do. Not. Trade. Keith.
- DarthKane

As I said in the original post, I wouldn’t. But Duncan may get frustrated enough with JC and the direction of the organization to ask to be sent to a better situation.

For instance, he makes TOR a much better team.

And no... I wouldn't do 3 years for Crawford, but just saying it may be a creative option the Hawks entertain.
- Tyler Cameron

It’s going to be $10M over 3 years. $3.33 AAV.

If you want to call basically the same system Trotz uses crap, then sure. The problem is not the system. It is the implementation of it, which comes down to the coaches being able to instill the principles of said system and the players ability and willingness to do so.

Cups have been won with a number of different systems or philosophies..
- Chunk

Again though JC came in and implemented a completely different system/strategy from coach Q. I'm okay with making a change as long as the change is based on knowing your players strengths/weaknesses and abilities to carry out that system.

If you don't have the right horses for a system you want to use then wouldn't you as a head coach someone who is supposedly skilled and knowledgeable in systems /schemes ect?

Just saying that JC might be just as much of the problems then being a solution.
He did have all summer to build his coaching staff and evaluate his players and prepare them for this season ?

I'm 100% sure Toews would say otherwise. Does that mean he is right? Numerous people here said the same thing - that Toews looked gassed a lot of the time. The coach has to do what he thinks is best for the team whether we (or the players in question) think it is right or wrong.

Not that I have any huge love from Strome, but he won the face-off (twice actually after they had to redo it). People rag on the fact that de Haan was out there, well he was one of the few who got a shot on goal there. Second guessing is easy after a team loses. I would have several questions for Colliton decisions (Quenneville?, Playing Nylander so long, Playing ADB on the top line - in place of Kubalik I think - during all of the practices only to drop him back down right when the games start, etc). I also don't have nearly the access to information that the coach does.

This isn't a dig at you PDX. I'm just throwing my 8 cents out there.
- Chunk

19 has 3 Stanley Cups and a Gold medal, plus other, individual awards on his resume. JC does not.