What kind of winger (or C or D) would 15th overall, Hallander and Murray brought in I wonder....hmmm.

JR goes after Kapanen, who I like, but the forwards group was already pretty deep. Yes RW was the weaker side but the forwards on a whole were already pretty damn good. D is the bigger issue and he not only likes the D's biggest problem but also sees no problem with him.

I'm pretty scared of who he's going to sign to partner with JJ. Terrified, actually. hahaha
- MattStrat

I think Hallander gets overrated because of how shallow our prospect pool is, but has teams that like him and Toronto was one of them where he could be used as a sweetener. Lots of doubts about the hands being good enough for top 6. But I don't think he was a needle mover on his own for a trade.

That is really to say I think 15 overall, Hallander, and Murray is a worse package than Addison and the 1st we gave for Zucker, so a worse wing than Zucker.

I think Hallander gets overrated because of how shallow our prospect pool is, but has teams that like him and Toronto was one of them where he could be used as a sweetener. Lots of doubts about the hands being good enough for top 6. But I don't think he was a needle mover on his own for a trade.

That is really to say I think 15 overall, Hallander, and Murray is a worse package than Addison and the 1st we gave for Zucker, so a worse wing than Zucker.
- Tojo.

Yeah I agree with all of that. I dont care about losing Hallander much at all. Just think there's a GM out there that may of offered more than Kapanen.

Yeah, think they got over that but there was also an Ovechkin like issue where they dogged him about playing more defence and setting up plays rather than just trying to snipe.

I say screw that, get him on a line with Crosby and Guentzel and let him fire away. He might be a 60 goal guy with those two.

Pens didn't totally blow their wad on Kapanen. Problem is that Marino would have to be involved in the trade. Not sure the Pens can end up better after all is said and done.

If you offered them Marino, Rust and McCann I think they'd have a hard time turning it down. Just ends up being a cap time bomb the next year when Laine gets $9.5M per year.
- MacPatty

I think I'd rather keep Marino, but I had to really think about it so maybe you could talk me into it. It just screws up the balance of our team so much and top 4 RHD are so hard to find, probably the toughest piece after top 2 centers.

Yeah I agree with all of that. I dont care about losing Hallander much at all. Just think there's a GM out there that may of offered more than Kapanen.
- MattStrat

That's certainly possible. It seems like teams were willing to trade a late 1st at least for Kapanen. Guess we'll see if any other 1sts are moves before the draft.

Kinda wondering what Letang could fetch on the open market. He is still one of the top scoring D in the league. He also is one year from being 6th in Norris trophy votes and 6th in Defensive All star votes. He is also right handed and has been major injury free *knock on wood* for a few seasons

Kinda wondering what Letang could fetch on the open market. He is still one of the top scoring D in the league. He also is one year from being 6th in Norris trophy votes and 6th in Defensive All star votes. He is also right handed and has been major injury free *knock on wood* for a few seasons
- 123Kid

He should not be going anywhere.

I think a lot of people are overrating our need on the blue line. Statistically Dumtang is a monster pairing and top 15 in the league caliber, Pettino is a very solid second pairing. Upgrading the top 4 from what we have is extremely difficult. It’s always a sellers’ market for definitively top 4 quality defensemen because literally every team always wants “just one more”. We can’t be wasting our limited assets trying to upgrade our second pairing when it’s already pretty good and we have three clear cut top 4 d men and Pettersson who’s good enough to play with a guy as good as John Marino.

The issue with the defense is that the third pairing is absolute dog poop and ECHL caliber and overdeployed because Sully likes to roll three lines and can’t admit his third line is unplayable. But the thing about the third pairing is that if he wanted to Rutherford could fix it with zero assets expended and at a minimal cap hit since third pairing capable UFAs go for minimum contracts like every single year. We even have in-house options with Riikola-Ruhwedel who statistically were our most effective pairing relative to their role this season when they played.

We all know what the actual issue on the blue line is, and we don’t need to spend to fix it. We just have a coach who’s too stupid to press box the issue and ice better players, and a GM who’s too proud/stubborn to admit that the consensus of fans calling Johnson an awful signing were right.

I think a lot of people are overrating our need on the blue line. Statistically Dumtang is a monster pairing and top 15 in the league caliber, Pettino is a very solid second pairing. Upgrading the top 4 from what we have is extremely difficult. It’s always a sellers’ market for definitively top 4 quality defensemen because literally every team always wants “just one more”. We can’t be wasting our limited assets trying to upgrade our second pairing when it’s already pretty good and we have three clear cut top 4 d men and Pettersson who’s good enough to play with a guy as good as John Marino.

The issue with the defense is that the third pairing is absolute dog poop and ECHL caliber and overdeployed because Sully likes to roll three lines and can’t admit his third line is unplayable. But the thing about the third pairing is that if he wanted to Rutherford could fix it with zero assets expended and at a minimal cap hit since third pairing capable UFAs go for minimum contracts like every single year. We even have in-house options with Riikola-Ruhwedel who statistically were our most effective pairing relative to their role this season when they played.

We all know what the actual issue on the blue line is, and we don’t need to spend to fix it. We just have a coach who’s too stupid to press box the issue and ice better players, and a GM who’s too proud/stubborn to admit that the consensus of fans calling Johnson an awful signing were right.
- Victoro311

I agree with this, I wouldn't move Tanger at all. Now Petts I would move if a better LD was coming in if he was packaged with someone. We just have a massive black hole on the third pair...

Yeah I agree with all of that. I dont care about losing Hallander much at all. Just think there's a GM out there that may of offered more than Kapanen.
- MattStrat

I think Kaps cap hit was a big deal breaker though. Maybe we could have gotten a better wing, however at a higher cap hit.

I think Kaps cap hit was a big deal breaker though. Maybe we could have gotten a better wing, however at a higher cap hit.
- 668710

Very true...also only 24 and still RFA when current contract is up in 2 years.

I think a lot of people are overrating our need on the blue line. Statistically Dumtang is a monster pairing and top 15 in the league caliber, Pettino is a very solid second pairing. Upgrading the top 4 from what we have is extremely difficult. It’s always a sellers’ market for definitively top 4 quality defensemen because literally every team always wants “just one more”. We can’t be wasting our limited assets trying to upgrade our second pairing when it’s already pretty good and we have three clear cut top 4 d men and Pettersson who’s good enough to play with a guy as good as John Marino.

The issue with the defense is that the third pairing is absolute dog poop and ECHL caliber and overdeployed because Sully likes to roll three lines and can’t admit his third line is unplayable. But the thing about the third pairing is that if he wanted to Rutherford could fix it with zero assets expended and at a minimal cap hit since third pairing capable UFAs go for minimum contracts like every single year. We even have in-house options with Riikola-Ruhwedel who statistically were our most effective pairing relative to their role this season when they played.

We all know what the actual issue on the blue line is, and we don’t need to spend to fix it. We just have a coach who’s too stupid to press box the issue and ice better players, and a GM who’s too proud/stubborn to admit that the consensus of fans calling Johnson an awful signing were right.
- Victoro311

Yes to all of this. Pettersson is perfectly fine.

Lots of talk on how the 3rd line is a problem, but what if they had a competent 3rd D pair playing with them? How much more would that improve them?

The third pair is the most pressing situation to fix because no matter who is on that third line is gonna get (frank)ed. So even if we acquire a good 3c it'll all be in being if JJ is still behind him.

I think Kaps cap hit was a big deal breaker though. Maybe we could have gotten a better wing, however at a higher cap hit.
- 668710

Agree. Kapanen has a nice contract and that upped the price.

Yes to all of this. Pettersson is perfectly fine.

Lots of talk on how the 3rd line is a problem, but what if they had a competent 3rd D pair playing with them? How much more would that improve them?
- Tojo.

Haha I just missed this as I was addressing it. Maybe we would be good with McCann 3c if the D wasn't beer league level. Start from the ground up with that third line.

The third pair is the most pressing situation to fix because no matter who is on that third line is gonna get (frank)ed. So even if we acquire a good 3c it'll all be in being if JJ is still behind him.
- 668710

Ha we basically wrote the same thing at the same time.

Ha we basically wrote the same thing at the same time.
- Tojo.

Yea lol

Yes to all of this. Pettersson is perfectly fine.

Lots of talk on how the 3rd line is a problem, but what if they had a competent 3rd D pair playing with them? How much more would that improve them?
- Tojo.

I'm not shopping Petts but if Murray/Petts package brings in a better LD I'd do it. Other than that I'm not touching the top 4

Yes to all of this. Pettersson is perfectly fine.

Lots of talk on how the 3rd line is a problem, but what if they had a competent 3rd D pair playing with them? How much more would that improve them?
- Tojo.

I wonder this as well. I’m not enamored with the blend of skills and make up of what would be the third line, but also having them be as incompetent as they were last season doesn’t make sense. How much of that is the third pairing and how much of the incompetence do the third line forwards actually own themselves?

An underrated pitfall of playing Johnson like we’ve been is that it prevents us from evaluating how good or bad the other players on the ice with him actually are.

I wonder this as well. I’m not enamored with the blend of skills and make up of what would be the third line, but also having them be as incompetent as they were last season doesn’t make sense. How much of that is the third pairing and how much of the incompetence do the third line forwards actually own themselves?

An underrated pitfall of playing Johnson like we’ve been is that it prevents us from evaluating how good or bad the other players on the ice with him actually are.
- Victoro311

Yeah I mean for instance, the 3rd forward line was absolute garbo vs the Habs.....but who was their most common defensive paring while on the ice?

I wonder this as well. I’m not enamored with the blend of skills and make up of what would be the third line, but also having them be as incompetent as they were last season doesn’t make sense. How much of that is the third pairing and how much of the incompetence do the third line forwards actually own themselves?

An underrated pitfall of playing Johnson like we’ve been is that it prevents us from evaluating how good or bad the other players on the ice with him actually are.
- Victoro311

I agree with needing to change up the mix. I'd personally focus more on the wings than center. Much like changing up the defense pair, there is a lot of room for improvement at Marleau's spot.

I'm not absolving McCann who needs to be much better himself. But if he can play closer to what he did in the 1st half with basically 3rd line wings like Kahun, Simon, Hornqvist, and even dragging around Galchenyuk he's fine. I'd like an insurance policy, but I'd also like to keep him.

Yes to all of this. Pettersson is perfectly fine.

Lots of talk on how the 3rd line is a problem, but what if they had a competent 3rd D pair playing with them? How much more would that improve them?
- Tojo.

Well, it's two-way thing isn't it. Could the Pens leave the defense as-is and be better? Yes, they could. If Sullivan limited their time more and was more strategic when they are deployed it would be an improvement, but obviously that's not happening, nor is it an ideal solution, but a solution nonetheless based on the likelihood of JJ getting moved.

The other is having competent a competent 3rd pair that's isn't a liability. They don't have to by dynamic, they don't have generate offense at a high rate. They simply need to be able to defend in their own end and have some ability to exit the zone. Riikola and Ruhwedel are more than capable.

I mean, what kinda twisted f'n irony is it that the Pens have the worst injury luck and are usually at the top of highest man games lost each season, and Jack f'n Johnson is pretty much their iron man hahaha

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=107171

Lol Tanner salty af.

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=107171

Lol Tanner salty af.
- j.boyd919

(frank)ing lol, such an assclown

I mean, what kinda twisted f'n irony is it that the Pens have the worst injury luck and are usually at the top of highest man games lost each season, and Jack f'n Johnson is pretty much their iron man hahaha
- MattStrat

Yea it really does suck haha.