No one should take any decisions right after such a debacle. What PISSES me off is this is a pattern.

Name me some post-season series in the past 20 years where a Flyers top line has delivered in the post-season according to regular season expectations? I cannot think of any.

The Primeau line in 2004 was not the top line. Primeau took cocaine or something and his play was utterly unforeseaeble. Roenick's line was the first line.

In 2010, we were lucky to have favorable matchups against the Devils and an overachieving Habs team. Carter and Richards were ok during that run, but under-performed in the finals. It was again the unexpected play of Hartnell-Briere-Leino that took us to where we went (the last of whom appeared out of nowhere and then pretty much went nowhere after the post-season).


Even if you disagree with some of this and point out issues, I think you will agree that those disagreements are exceptions: the modern day history of the Flyers forwards, which is supposed to be the strong point of this club, is regular season heroes, post-season zeroes Ottawa, Buffalo, NJ Devils, Boston (2012), Caps, Pittsburgh, Rangers, now this post-season).

Some institutional scrutiny is in order after the due interval of calmness.

EDIT: meant Boston 2011
- PT21

First of all, congrats on taking a stance. Your claim of going back to ignoring me, lasted less than 2 hours.

More importantly, I'm not sure how what has happened 10-15-20 years has anything to do with now. So you're wasting your time with this. Some scrutiny in your thought process is in order.
Hextall took over as GM and changed the course of the team and how it operates to focus on drafting and development. Many of the current players are a product of that. Obviously they have some more development to do. We also have a new GM who made some immediate changes and the team improved to making it within a game of the conference finals. It's not all doom and gloom.

We'll have to see what happens. Life has to move on.
- MJL

I’ll take whatever hockey I can get.

I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not equate the talent level of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner as equivalent to Provorov,Myers,Sanheim, and who-ever else you want to lump there.

In the first 4, there are 3 who have HOF level talent (not saying they have the same achievements. Just talking about elite, elite talent).

I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you believe we have currently anyone who matches up in talent level to those 3.
- PT21

Well the Flyers weren't lucky enough to have a generational talent fall to them in the draft. The Leafs are a forward heavy team. They would kill to have the Flyers young defense to go along with the talent up front. So while your busy calling me delusional, you're also missing the point. The point is that you saw some optimism of the Leafs, even though they woefully underachieved. Majority of your posts show no optimism whatsoever for the Flyers. Provorov is a top 10 draft pick who is a top pairing defenseman who is only going to get better. Both Sanheim and Myers have real potential to be really good NHL defenseman. Then there is Carter Hart. Then we have other strong young players and prospects such as Konency, Lindblom, Farabee and Frost.

In conclusion, just having a few outstanding forwards does not a team make. The best team wins, not just the team with the best individual players at the top of the lineup. I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you don't understand that.

All the talk about who needs to go and which big $$$ forward they need to get seems pointless to me. Is there even going to be a season? The Flyers are tight against the cap, as it is, with no relief in sight. Realistically what moves are they going to be able to make? What about the young kids in the minors? Is there going to be an AHL?
- Dkos

Where there’s a will there’s a way.

They have all those guys and can’t make the first round. McDavid and Draisaitl are better then every guy on our team, are they better than us? 4 guys don’t make a team, get it though your head.
- ClaudeFather

Straw man.

Of COURSE you are a better team with a McDavid.

Of COURSE he doesn't win every year.

Of COURSE any team should attempt to add elite talent every year.

A friend just asked me what’s next for the Flyers.

You know what? As much as I’d like to see Giroux get us a Cup and retire a Flyer, I’m just over the Giroux, Voracek and van Riemsdyk era. I don’t view Couturier or Hayes as the studs some of you think they are who will lead us all the way. I love our goaltending, I love our defense but we have a really bad mix over forwards, some too old, some not dominant enough and overall not tough enough. As great as Barzel, Lee and Bailey are, that fourth line of Martin and Clutterbuck grinded it out really nicely and made a difference for the Islanders.

So I’m hoping we get younger, tougher and more dynamic up front.

That depends. We've been here before, counting Giroux out. NHL history is filled with failed playoff performances by top players only to have them rebound. No doubt that if Giroux and Voracek regress and don't rebound, that puts the team in a bad spot. What we also don't know if how fast young players will grow. I think a valid point was made that you just glossed over. They were one win away from reaching the conference finals. There's a reason why team brass won't make decisions hastily. Too much emotion involved right now.
- MJL

chance of close and jake regressing > then getting better. both are way too complacent imo

A friend just asked me what’s next for the Flyers.

You know what? As much as I’d like to see Giroux get us a Cup and retire a Flyer, I’m just over the Giroux, Voracek and van Riemsdyk era. I don’t view Couturier or Hayes as the studs some of you think they are who will lead us all the way. I love our goaltending, I love our defense but we have a really bad mix over forwards, some too old, some not dominant enough and overall not tough enough. As great as Barzel, Lee and Bailey are, that fourth line of Martin and Clutterbuck grinded it out really nicely and made a difference for the Islanders.

So I’m hoping we get younger, tougher and more dynamic up front.
- SuperSchennBros

I definitely think the guys that are supposed to be our big point producers just don’t cut it anymore. Coots a great shutdown center but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired in my opinion. Hayes is an all situations player that I think will be invaluable when they get some better players around him.

I’m going to be pretty indifferent about the team next year if they don’t make some changes to the top 6. With how long the PP struggled it’s clearly a personnel problem to me.

Doesn’t need to be earth shattering moves but they certainly need to find ways to add speed and guys who can finish.

I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not equate the talent level of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner as equivalent to Provorov,Myers,Sanheim, and who-ever else you want to lump there.

In the first 4, there are 3 who have HOF level talent (not saying they have the same achievements. Just talking about elite, elite talent).

I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you believe we have currently anyone who matches up in talent level to those 3.
- PT21

Hang on one second. You’re posting some pretty interesting stuff but let me stop you right here. The Toronto players you mention are forwards. The Flyers players you mention are defense. A team of Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Provorov, Sanheim and Myers are probably in the third round right now. Those names mixed together is a power house.

I definitely think the guys that are supposed to be our big point producers just don’t cut it anymore. Coots a great shutdown center but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired in my opinion. Hayes is an all situations player that I think will be invaluable when they get some better players around him.

I’m going to be pretty indifferent about the team next year if they don’t make some changes to the top 6. With how long the PP struggled it’s clearly a personnel problem to me.

Doesn’t need to be earth shattering moves but they certainly need to find ways to add speed and guys who can finish.
- hereticpride

Agreed.

So Seattle Expansion Draft. Who do we keep?

Obviously we got:

Hayes
Giroux
Lindblom
Konecny
Couturier
Provorov
Sanheim
Myers

Who do you protect for the last 2 FWD spots?

NoPa
Voracek
Laughton
NAK
JVR

I would think NoPa and Voracek but I hate leaving Laughton unprotected and personally think it would be crazy to leave a 2nd overall pick up for grabs even with the uncertainty of his career.

So Seattle Expansion Draft. Who do we keep?

Obviously we got:

Hayes
Giroux
Lindblom
Konecny
Couturier
Provorov
Sanheim
Myers

Who do you protect for the last 2 FWD spots?

NoPa
Voracek
Laughton
NAK
JVR

I would think NoPa and Voracek but I hate leaving Laughton unprotected and personally think it would be crazy to leave a 2nd overall pick up for grabs even with the uncertainty of his career.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Don’t you have to protect Jake because of his no moment?

I definitely think the guys that are supposed to be our big point producers just don’t cut it anymore. Coots a great shutdown center but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired in my opinion. Hayes is an all situations player that I think will be invaluable when they get some better players around him.

I’m going to be pretty indifferent about the team next year if they don’t make some changes to the top 6. With how long the PP struggled it’s clearly a personnel problem to me.

Doesn’t need to be earth shattering moves but they certainly need to find ways to add speed and guys who can finish.
- hereticpride

most moves will come from internal options imo. Unless a jvf for another guy in a similar situation n another team. classic change of scenario. same with ghost. Ghost for alzner and a first!!!!

not sure interanlly there are any snipers at all. speed can be addressed.

So Seattle Expansion Draft. Who do we keep?

Obviously we got:

Hayes
Giroux
Lindblom
Konecny
Couturier
Provorov
Sanheim
Myers

Who do you protect for the last 2 FWD spots?

NoPa
Voracek
Laughton
NAK
JVR

I would think NoPa and Voracek but I hate leaving Laughton unprotected and personally think it would be crazy to leave a 2nd overall pick up for grabs even with the uncertainty of his career.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

laughton will be a free agent. Thought jake didn't have any clauses in his deal? yes protect nopa without a doubt unless he sits out the whole year again

most moves will come from internal options imo. Unless a jvf for another guy in a similar situation n another team. classic change of scenario. same with ghost. Ghost for alzner and a first!!!!

not sure interanlly there are any snipers at all. speed can be addressed.
- login

A kind of Neal for Lucic kind of trade.

Don’t you have to protect Jake because of his no moment?
- SuperSchennBros

I dont think he has a NMC. I’d protect Patrick and Laughton. If Jake gets taken it’s likely going to help us out in a few years not having his money on the books.

I think they take Ghost tho unless we move him prior to the expansion draft.

So, summarizing then, in the present and short term future: we have young guys in D who are promising, and we could be set in goal for years, and our top forwards though are definitely over the hill?

If you simply add up the maybes and the definite negatives in the list, you will clearly arrive at the same conclusion as some of us: this is very likely not a contending club in the present or short term future.
- PT21

I think Hart and Provorov are already great. Sanheim and Myers are very young but were a big part of the team and at their age and for their position there is every reason to believe they will get better. The forwards are what they are. G and Jake are past their peak but still useful and very good players.
Hayes and Couts are in their prime years, and Konecny, Farabee, and likely Frost will all improve and be impact players for a while. Lindblom like you mentioned is in remission and like Patrick the future is unpredictable for these two.
I’m optimistic about the club and their growth this year. You are being a realist and pretty pessimistic today which is understandable given the showing against the Isles.

A kind of Neal for Lucic kind of trade.
- SuperSchennBros

jvr for louie erickson...1 year and 1 million less i think. would you do it?

I dont think he has a NMC. I’d protect Patrick and Laughton. If Jake gets taken it’s likely going to help us out in a few years not having his money on the books.

I think they take Ghost tho unless we move him prior to the expansion draft.
- hereticpride

Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hagg, Hart and Cam York.

I think it’s time to transition. Obviously Couturier, Hayes and Laughton offer something but the other guys are old.

jvr for louie erickson...1 year and 1 million less i think. would you do it?
- login

I don’t hate it.

I am well endowed
- login

Inches are on the other side of the ruler.

Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hagg, Hart and Cam York.

I think it’s time to transition. Obviously Couturier, Hayes and Laughton offer something but the other guys are old.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree. If they want to let Giroux ride out his contract then so be it. If they have a chance to move Jake I’d probably jump on it.

Inches are on the other side of the ruler.
- Aetherial

😂

Don’t you have to protect Jake because of his no moment?
- SuperSchennBros

He doesnt have one

I definitely think the guys that are supposed to be our big point producers just don’t cut it anymore. Coots a great shutdown center but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired in my opinion. Hayes is an all situations player that I think will be invaluable when they get some better players around him.


- hereticpride

I have an issue with this. The rest of Couturier's game leaves something to be desired but Hayes is an all situations player that will be invaluable when they get some better players around him?

Let me make some points.

Both players are all situations players. Hayes is solid all around but he is not a Selke level defender. Couturier is a finalist for the trophy.

This season, both players played 69 games.

Couturier had 22 goals and 37 assists for 59 points
Hayes had 23 goals and 18 assists for 41 points

Couturier's career high for goals is 33, assists is 45 and has twice put up 76 points in a season

Hayes career high in goals is 25, assists 32 and points 49. Hayes has never broken the 50 point barrier in a season.

So both are good defensively but Hayes is not a Selke contender. Edge to Couturier

Clearly Couturier is also the better offensive player.

Couturier is a dominant 2 way #1 NHL center in this league. Hayes is a #2 center.

In closing, your post doesn't make a lot of sense.