He played half a season, why give him 2M. Can't imagine another team giving a player that spent most of his career in the AHL 2M. I know it's not that bad, just a slight overpay IMO
- Archaic

He played 68 games like everyone else.

14 games off of a full season. not "half a season"

Who cares where he played 3 years ago. It really doesn't matter.

He played well in a 2nd pairing role and if he keeps that up its a huge steal. Thats how you get contract that are steals.

Holl is a top 4 dman the same way Bozak was a first line centre for the buds. It's not a huge overpay, but still a bit of one.
- leafsfann

Agreed.

I hope you guys are right, because it feels more like a bottom pairing overpay than a second pairing steal.
- leafsfann

https://public.tableau.co...=y&:origin=viz_share_link

not saying he is Pesce...just as a comparison its how good of a season he had.

Absolutely worth the 3 year 2M gamble. This contract could be a steal.

Nice. I miss my hardtail mtb. Just the road bike now. I want to get one of these new gravel bikes.
- Zezel

Recently bought a full suspension
What a difference

He played 68 games like everyone else.

14 games off of a full season. not "half a season"

Who cares where he played 3 years ago. It really doesn't matter.

He played well in a 2nd pairing role and if he keeps that up its a huge steal. Thats how you get contract that are steals.
- Santo_44

You get the point , 68 games after being a healthy scratch and a long time Ahler, not exactly a ringing endorsement for that much pay IMO. I don't hate him, I just think he's slightly overpayed

I hope you guys are right, because it feels more like a bottom pairing overpay than a second pairing steal.
- leafsfann

holl is a bottom pairing D that can fill in 4th man duties for a short while.
As of now, hes not a a full time top 4 d on a playoff team.
That could change though

I hope you guys are right, because it feels more like a bottom pairing overpay than a second pairing steal.
- leafsfann

I feel like this is a little outdated debate.

If Holl was a "second pairing defensemen" he'd have got 4-6 million per year in free agency at the end of the year.

Good bottom pairing guys are making 1.5+ ....the only guys making a million are young guys and old vets with warts.

Look at it this way ...at 2 million he's buying time for Sandin and the other kids to ease their way into the top 4.

And when you've got 40 million in the big 4 you've got to sacrifice elsewhere ...having Holl, at 2 million, as your #4 is that sacrifice.

I feel like this is a little outdated debate.

If Holl was a "second pairing defensemen" he'd have got 4-6 million per year in free agency at the end of the year.

Good bottom pairing guys are making 1.5+ ....the only guys making a million are young guys and old vets with warts.

Look at it this way ...at 2 million he's buying time for Sandin and the other kids to ease their way into the top 4.

And when you've got 40 million in the big 4 you've got to sacrifice elsewhere ...having Holl, at 2 million, as your #4 is that sacrifice.
- The Law

good point.
Sucks, but it seems like thats what we are stuck with.

Check the numbers. Cases went down.
- Canada Cup

ok. sure. whats the $ value?

He played 68 games like everyone else.

14 games off of a full season. not "half a season"

Who cares where he played 3 years ago. It really doesn't matter.

He played well in a 2nd pairing role and if he keeps that up its a huge steal. Thats how you get contract that are steals.
- Santo_44

I think the half season reference is because the extension was signed in December. Holl is the kinda player that's going to get squeezed this covid off-season.

Agreed.
Hes a 5-6 dman
- Fakepartofme

You guys keep saying Holl is a 5-6 Dman. Then say he is overpaid when he gets paid as a 5-6 D man.

Top 4 Dmen make 3.5 million minimum.

I think the half season reference is because the extension was signed in December. Holl is the kinda player that's going to get squeezed this covid off-season.
- leafsfann

A Kraken he will be Rrrr.

You get the point , 68 games after being a healthy scratch and a long time Ahler, not exactly a ringing endorsement for that much pay IMO. I don't hate him, I just think he's slightly overpayed
- Archaic

Boggles my mind.

The stats are right in front of us. He was a cog in the wheel for the Leafs D this season.

Cheap and can play against top comp.

For 2M.

For once Leaf fans should be happy.

Man we start drinking early around here these days.

(frank)in pour me one then!
- joel878

Umm... 6:45 is late.

You guys keep saying Holl is a 5-6 Dman. Then say he is overpaid when he gets paid as a 5-6 D man.

Top 4 Dmen make 3.5 million minimum.
- Leafs43

Even 3.5 is a cheap deal for a good 3/4 guy.

Recently bought a full suspension
What a difference
- Fakepartofme

Like to try one. I was in my bike shop and they were assembling a full suspension fat bike, and I mean FAT tires. They said I could take it out for a test when it rains, can't wait.

I don't even know where to begin to describe how odd and just... weird that is..
- dozerD10

Cartoon version of the original, weird yes, but funny as well

Like to try one. I was in my bike shop and they were assembling a full suspension fat bike, and I mean FAT tires. They said I could take it out for a test when it rains, can't wait.
- Zezel

Ive never taking a fat bike for a ride. I wanted to try it in the winter, see what its like.

good point.
Sucks, but it seems like thats what we are stuck with.
- Fakepartofme

I wouldn't say stuck. One quick trade and they'd be unstuck. I think the idea is to start the year with Holl as your #4, let the kids play minutes on the 3rd pair and if you need an improvement you swing a trade at the deadline for a rental.

I'm more interested in seeing how they find Rielly a partner.

He played 68 games like everyone else.

14 games off of a full season. not "half a season"

Who cares where he played 3 years ago. It really doesn't matter.

He played well in a 2nd pairing role and if he keeps that up its a huge steal. Thats how you get contract that are steals.
- Santo_44

I don't know why you keep saying Holl played "well" in a top four role and describe him as "fine". Our defence all season was hot trash. He's not a top four defenceman. He wouldn't even crack Boston's top six. In short, he's a 6-7 guy on a good team. He was not impressive against Columbus. He neither played "well", nor was he "fine". Guess what Santo - he CAN'T play against opposition top players. He gets eaten up.

Boggles my mind.

The stats are right in front of us. He was a cog in the wheel for the Leafs D this season.

Cheap and can play against top comp.

For 2M.

For once Leaf fans should be happy.
- Santo_44

Yes our high end d core that everyone lauds....seriously, holl isn't a top 4 on a contending team.

I think he is a little overpayed, I didn't say he's crappy like Subban or something

I don't know why you keep saying Holl played "well" in a top four role and describe him as "fine". Our defence all season was hot trash. He's not a top four defenceman. He wouldn't even crack Boston's top six. In short, he's a 6-7 guy on a good team. He was not impressive against Columbus. He neither played "well", nor was he "fine". Guess what Santo - he CAN'T play against opposition top players. He gets eaten up.
- fifty__missions

When the Leafs were at their best defensively, Muzzin-Holl were a good shutdown pair. Muzzin and Rielly got hurt, and the below average defence becomes complete crap.

Holl is fine as a 4/5.

When the Leafs were at their best defensively, Muzzin-Holl were a good pairing. Muzzin and Rielly got hurt, and the below average defence becomes complete crap.

Holl is fine as a 4/5.
- Steven_Seagull

Maybe 5, not top 4 IMO, like 5/6 on a contender

- Steven_Seagull

I got other things to watch and read and reread.

3-0 Vegas