3-0 Vegas
- GreatGigInTheSky

no goal.

When the Leafs were at their best defensively, Muzzin-Holl were a good shutdown pair. Muzzin and Rielly got hurt, and the below average defence becomes complete crap.

Holl is fine as a 4/5.
- Steven_Seagull

We were NEVER good defensively. "At our best"? Pfft. 4/5? pfffft. He's no top 4.

He gets eaten up. He was hot trash vs. Columbus. He doesn't crack Boston's top 6.

4/5. pfffft. He's no top 4.

He gets eaten up. He doesn't crack Boston's top 6.
- fifty__missions

Except he doesn’t.

Except he doesn’t.
- Steven_Seagull

Yeah, he does.

Yeah, he does.
- fifty__missions

The stats say no. 🤷‍♂️

The stats say no. 🤷‍♂️
- Steven_Seagull

The eye test says yes. He's an AHL player.

The eye test says yes. He's an AHL player.
- fifty__missions

no goal.
- Doc_Sarcasm

I was just predicting the future.

- Steven_Seagull

He's elite at picking pucks out of his own net, breaking his stick over the crossbar, and getting beat wide.

He played half a season, why give him 2M. Can't imagine another team giving a player that spent most of his career in the AHL 2M. I know it's not that bad, just a slight overpay IMO
- Archaic

The term is the worst part. No need to give a guy like him 3 years. At all. Trying to improve upon guys like Holl should be the objective.

I was just predicting the future.


- GreatGigInTheSky

well.. you werent wrong.

He's elite at picking pucks out of his own net, breaking his stick over the crossbar, and getting beat wide.
- fifty__missions

Is that your most damning criticism? 2/3 of those things happen when a play is over. I think you need your cataracts addressed before you go flaunting the eye test. There's a difference between opinion and fact.

The stats say no. 🤷‍♂️
- Steven_Seagull

female doging at length about a bottom pairing right hander who can step into the top 4 when needed without getting absolutely harvested for parts being paid 2 million really is proof that leafs Nation will (frank)ing whine about anything. 🤦‍♂️

Yeah, he does.
- fifty__missions

I am not sure what you were watching.

He's fine. He also stepped up and played pretty well when Muzzin and Rielly were down.

You want to look for blame vs Columbus, look at THREE even strength goals the whole series and Ander7en letting in a bad goal in each of those losses.

female doging at length about a bottom pairing right hander who can step into the top 4 when needed without getting absolutely harvested for parts being paid 2 million really is proof that leafs Nation will (frank)ing whine about anything. 🤦‍♂️
- joel878

Holl played the second most total minutes. Had the least amount of O-zone starts. Was still a positive in: Corsi, actual goals, expected goals, scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, high danger goals scored.


Improve on Barrie and Ceci and the defence will be fine. Hopefully Rielly and Muzzin don’t get hurt at the same freaking time again.

female doging at length about a bottom pairing right hander who can step into the top 4 when needed without getting absolutely harvested for parts being paid 2 million really is proof that leafs Nation will (frank)ing whine about anything. 🤦‍♂️
- joel878

It's people who say he is top four material that I disagree with. People like Santo, and Dubas. He cannot handle that role. People trying to justify him in that position are apologists for a poorly managed cap. His role should be press box on most nights. Like, 60 times a year.

It's people who say he is top four material that I disagree with. People like Santo, and Dubas. He cannot handle that role. People trying to justify him in that position are apologists for a poorly managed cap. His role should be press box on most nights. Like, 60 times a year.
- fifty__missions

Holl played the second most total minutes. Had the least amount of O-zone starts. Was still a positive in: Corsi, actual goals, expected goals, scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, high danger goals scored.


Improve on Barrie and Ceci and the defence will be fine. Hopefully Rielly and Muzzin don’t get hurt at the same freaking time again.
- Steven_Seagull

He also passed the eye test. The Leafs have bigger fish to fry than replacing Holl.

He also passed the eye test. The Leafs have bigger fish to fry than replacing Holl.
- Aetherial

He doesn't crack Boston's top 6. That's where he is on a good team.

He also passed the eye test. The Leafs have bigger fish to fry than replacing Holl.
- Aetherial

Exactly

He's elite at picking pucks out of his own net, breaking his stick over the crossbar, and getting beat wide.
- fifty__missions

Man the entire Red Wings defense must be elite.

Jays win again

Jays win again
- GreatGigInTheSky

Yeah man

He also passed the eye test. The Leafs have bigger fish to fry than replacing Holl.
- Aetherial

Holl is decent. Not flashy, not great, but decent.

Also, it would help if the Leafs forwards as a group played better D.

You should trust me.

As a Flyers fan, I'm something of a connoisseur of poopty defensive play by forwards.

He doesn't crack Boston's top 6. That's where he is on a good team.
- fifty__missions

Impossible to say. With a better coached team, whose best players are not 22-23, who play team defense, maybe he does.

Oh, and he wasn't the reason they lost to Boston either.