If you're referring to who we could have had, then you have to look at players in the 2nd round and beyond

Nothing special in the 2nd or 3rd round that we "could have, would have, should have" had we kept the pick
- TheGame316

I'm just saying that because of Patrick's health issues, the Flyers wished the had drafted: Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar or Elias Pettersson.

Not saying it is their fault they didn't but what could have been!

I just took this from Pensburgh


—Darren Dreger on the Penguins:

“No shortage of trade bait with the Pittsburgh Penguins. Matt Murray expected to go sooner rather than later. You’ve got Hornqvist, Aston-Reese, Johnson among those that could be moved. But there’s been some speculation around veteran defenseman Kris Letang. And I’m not sure that’s legit. It’s ok to talk about specific players, outside of Sidney Crosby and maybe
- MattStrat[Evgeni] Malkin. But I know that Kris Letang wants something clarified: his agent Kent Hughes saying that Kris does NOT expect to be traded. He might very well be traded, but that’s not his expectation.”

Also says:

Dreger: “Hornqvist, Aston-Reese, Johnson among those that could be moved”

Sundqvist is 26 and has hit his ceiling as a 12-15 goal scorer (pretty much what Blueger is now at 4 years younger and 2 million cheaper)

He was probably viewed as a spare part as they had a similar player (Blueger) in the system who was ready to surpass him

"MAYBE" we could have gotten more for the 1st and "MAYBE" not. We also received a pick back that was 20 slots lower (and lots of the players 30-60 in any draft are considered interchangeable) that people constantly dismiss and claim the trade was "Reaves for Sundqvist and a 1st"

As it stands we traded a player (Sundqvist) with a 12-15 goal ceiling for a player with a 8-10 goal ceiling (Reaves) who brings a lot more to the table than Sundqvist (who we already had a younger/cheaper player in Blueger to replace with who still has "potential" upside)

The trade looks bad in hindsight because Lauzon retired, but Kostin looks like a bust or bottom 6 "at best" player and those guys are around everywhere. So call that a wash at this point

If you look at the link of the 2017 draft, the entire draft was crap after pick #30 anyways

GMJR got a player who can play in Reaves, but Sully didn't use him. That speaks more to a different dysfunction than it does on Reaves or a bad trade
- TheGame316

Blueg is 150 days younger than Sundqvist, not 4 years.

He’s also never outscored Sundqvist in a season.

Never had more than 9 goals.

Sooo... no. This post is wrong.

Blueg is 150 days younger than Sundqvist, not 4 years.

He’s also never outscored Sundqvist in a season.

Never had more than 9 goals.

Sooo... no. This post is wrong.
- j.boyd919

My bad, I was comparing the 2 in their hockeydb and it listed Bluegers age as 22 but that was 3 years ago

point still stands, They were very similar players and the Penguins obviously figured they had 2 of the same guy that was probably a 4th line center at best

It should be noted that Sundqvist has slotted up at times as a winger which has somewhat inflated his stats

I don't know what roles they had in WBS but Sundqvist topped out at 20 goals and 46 points and Blueger topped out at 21/45.

Sundqvist 12/23 points last year, Blueger 9/22

Same guy

Everything else about the post is accurate

Also says:

Dreger: “Hornqvist, Aston-Reese, Johnson among those that could be moved”

- stevens87

Can only hope haha

WOW! So after the Flyers drafted Nolan Patrick second overall, the three players that went after him were: Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar and Elias Pettersson. I think the Flyers may want a mulligan on that.

- stevens87

Hischier hasn't been a home run either. Pettersson was probably the biggest steal so far.

I'm just saying that because of Patrick's health issues, the Flyers wished the had drafted: Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar or Elias Pettersson.

Not saying it is their fault they didn't but what could have been!
- stevens87

It is their fault though. Patrick had major injury concerns prior to being drafted and they stuck with him. Really happy they did!

Going back and reading about 2 weeks ago... people on here were saying they would be happy with a 3rd rounder and/or mid prospect for Murray.... fast forward 2 weeks and people are now wanting a 1st or they wont be happy with the trade...

JR is likely realizing that the 1st he gave to Toronto for Kapanen was over the top, now he's trying to get it back!
- NewfieStud

The overpayment May have been planned with him thinking he gets a 1st back for Murray. Not good asset management imo but we still might have a 1st

Going back and reading about 2 weeks ago... people on here were saying they would be happy with a 3rd rounder and/or mid prospect for Murray.... fast forward 2 weeks and people are now wanting a 1st or they wont be happy with the trade...
- pens4life-66

I still don’t think he’s worth a 1st unless a bunch of goalies resign with their teams, which I think will happen, and Lerner gets scooped up or resigned. Which I also think he stays in Vegas. A lot of the remaining goalies are 35+. Maybe then his values goes up a bit. But I’ll be glad if jr does get one.

The assets given for Reaves was terrible, but I think he could have been a useful player for the Pens if he had a couple of better linemates. Regardless, the worst aspect of the trade was the coach didn't want him and didn't use him. Not sure how that happens in modern day sports where coaches are intimately involved in personnel decisions.

Going back and reading about 2 weeks ago... people on here were saying they would be happy with a 3rd rounder and/or mid prospect for Murray.... fast forward 2 weeks and people are now wanting a 1st or they wont be happy with the trade...
- pens4life-66

Lol I am not expecting anywhere close to a first for Murray.

My bad, I was comparing the 2 in their hockeydb and it listed Bluegers age as 22 but that was 3 years ago

point still stands, They were very similar players and the Penguins obviously figured they had 2 of the same guy that was probably a 4th line center at best

It should be noted that Sundqvist has slotted up at times as a winger which has somewhat inflated his stats

I don't know what roles they had in WBS but Sundqvist topped out at 20 goals and 46 points and Blueger topped out at 21/45.

Sundqvist 12/23 points last year, Blueger 9/22

Same guy

Everything else about the post is accurate
- TheGame316

You had bluegers hockeydb page opened on a tab for over 3 years?

Hischier hasn't been a home run either. Pettersson was probably the biggest steal so far.
- leafsfann

Hischier is a stud. The devils just suck.

Going back and reading about 2 weeks ago... people on here were saying they would be happy with a 3rd rounder and/or mid prospect for Murray.... fast forward 2 weeks and people are now wanting a 1st or they wont be happy with the trade...
- pens4life-66

I'd chalk this up more to there are a lot of varied opinions on the board.

My official stance is I have no clue what he's worth, but if GMJR is asking for a 1st, he better hope there's a GM like himself interested who doesn't mind overpaying.

I'd chalk this up more to there are a lot of varied opinions on the board.

My official stance is I have no clue what he's worth, but if GMJR is asking for a 1st, he better hope there's a GM like himself interested who doesn't mind overpaying.
- Tojo.

There’s more goalies than teams that need goalies. It doesn’t matter what Murray’s value is.

There’s more goalies than teams that need goalies. It doesn’t matter what Murray’s value is.
- Feds91Stammer

I feel like your valuations aren’t off, they just never take into account how (frank)ing stupid NHL GM’s are. I’m not expecting anything more than a 3rd and a prospect that has no upside, but there’s probably multiple GM’s in this league that can be goaded into paying wayyy too much for a league average goalie because he comes with Cup wins.

My bad, I was comparing the 2 in their hockeydb and it listed Bluegers age as 22 but that was 3 years ago

point still stands, They were very similar players and the Penguins obviously figured they had 2 of the same guy that was probably a 4th line center at best

It should be noted that Sundqvist has slotted up at times as a winger which has somewhat inflated his stats

I don't know what roles they had in WBS but Sundqvist topped out at 20 goals and 46 points and Blueger topped out at 21/45.

Sundqvist 12/23 points last year, Blueger 9/22

Same guy

Everything else about the post is accurate
- TheGame316

They're from the same draft year. The reason you thought they were 4 years apart is Blueger took forever to establish himself even though he was a 2nd round pick. I don't think 3 years ago they were convinced they were the same guy. Even if they were, Sundqvist could play the wing and add some size in addition to being a good defensive center that chips in offensively.

The reason he's more expensive now is he had good years on a cheap contract when we were playing guys like Rowney, McKegg, and Kuhnhackl. Could have used him.

Also, I don't know who would be the pick, but there are 4 guys between Klostin and Lauzon I'd put on this roster from just one glance. Give me Timmons for the 3rd pair or Texier as a 3C option.

Hischier is a stud. The devils just suck.
- Feds91Stammer

He's good, but Heiskanen, Makar, or Pettersson good?

I feel like your valuations aren’t off, they just never take into account how (frank)ing stupid NHL GM’s are. I’m not expecting anything more than a 3rd and a prospect that has no upside, but there’s probably multiple GM’s in this league that can be goaded into paying wayyy too much for a league average goalie because he comes with Cup wins.
- Victoro311

Oh I’m stating kelly blue book values not the values idiots are willing to pay. My old location used to be “all GMs are idiots”.

He's good, but Heiskanen, Makar, or Pettersson good?
- leafsfann

He’s better than you think. Not saying it’s a be all end all but he was 31st among forwards in WAR in 18/19. Dunno about this past season. The devils just suck.

He’s better than you think. Not saying it’s a be all end all but he was 31st among forwards in WAR in 18/19. Dunno about this past season. The devils just suck.
- Feds91Stammer

I live in NJ and watch my fair share of Devils games. He is def better than you think strong two way game and can be a solid 60 point getter maybe more with high end wingers. I’d say very strong #2 to low end #1 center.

I am not sure of all the specifics regarding RFA rules but I wonder if the Pens could offer Murray a one year deal for what he is making now, after which he would become an UFA? That would be mutually beneficial. If he does good then it helps the Pens next season and he has a good case for a high paying follow-up contract (for whomever). If he does bad (again) then he will be free to test the UFA market and get as much as he can.

I thought Murray would play better this past season, considering it was a contract year. This would give him another chance, and would help the Pens avoid a bad trade.

The assets given for Reaves was terrible, but I think he could have been a useful player for the Pens if he had a couple of better linemates. Regardless, the worst aspect of the trade was the coach didn't want him and didn't use him. Not sure how that happens in modern day sports where coaches are intimately involved in personnel decisions.
- madmike71

I agree.

I am not sure of all the specifics regarding RFA rules but I wonder if the Pens could offer Murray a one year deal for what he is making now, after which he would become an UFA? That would be mutually beneficial. If he does good then it helps the Pens next season and he has a good case for a high paying follow-up contract (for whomever). If he does bad (again) then he will be free to test the UFA market and get as much as he can.

I thought Murray would play better this past season, considering it was a contract year. This would give him another chance, and would help the Pens avoid a bad trade.
- PghPens668771

Yes he would be 27 by June 30 of next year making him eligible for UFA. The question is does Murray want to bet on himself with a one year deal?