I’m not talking about any of that, I have no idea how trading for players that can’t play and putting them on LTIR helps during the reg season?
- Garnie

It allows you to go over the cap by that players' salary. For instance, if a player gets 3 million you can exceed. But you also have to pay to the cap max I believe.

I think in Hortopn's case, Leafs paid 100%. I believe Columbus made the unbelievable decision to sign Horton without insurance. Every other player insurance usually covers 80%+
- RogerRoeper

The premiums could have been too high for the team or that particular part of the body wouldn't be insured by the insurance company.

It depends on the player.

IIRC, Hossa and Kesler are insured - no way Coyotes would take on Hossa's contract if they were paying actual dollars.

The only one I think wasn't insured was Horton.
- Atomic Wedgie

so then why would teams care about trading LTIR contracts if they don't have to pay? The horton one is stupid in hindsight cause the guy was injury prone.

Maybe the Leafs need to look at their scouting situation. They have not been Able to develop their own goalie prospect or their own defensive prospects. They have looked elsewhere for both goalie and defence, maybe it is time to shift focus or scouting staff.

The premiums could have been too high for the team or that particular part of the body wouldn't be insured by the insurance company.
- Aaron_85

In Horton's case, his was not insured because he signed the UFA contract with CBJ when he was still injured.. In Kesler's case, he was healthy when the Ducks signed him, so it was covered by insurance.

It allows you to go over the cap by that players' salary. For instance, if a player gets 3 million you can exceed. But you also have to pay to the cap max I believe.
- RogerRoeper

Ya I don’t get it. If all our players make 81 and then we trade for Hossa, all our players still make 81.

I need to see it on paper or something

so then why would teams care about trading LTIR contracts if they don't have to pay? The horton one is stupid in hindsight cause the guy was injury prone.
- matt1337

Chicago got some asset for a player not playing for them. That's not an issue. Also, they no longer pay the insurance premiums and have to manage the cap on it.

To my knowledge, you have to be cap compliant on the first day of the season and then you shift guys to LTIR and you begin getting your savings or whatever they do with those contracts.

I do think there will be a season, starting in Jan 2021, but that could just be me being hopeful.

I do think other teams shedding salary actually helps the Leafs.. Dubas, Pridham and Co. handed out signing bonuses to a lot of players, which makes them easier to move.
Johnsson for Dumba would be a good trade, if Minnesota needed to shed salary
- PatC80

Not a lot of guys in the same position as Andersen, unfortunately.

If you go through them on CapFriendly, nothing really sticks out.

Kerfoot was slightly front-loaded, but not really by that much. In terms of actual dollars, he's now a $3.5M cap hit, with about $2.7M per year in actual salary for the next three years. Are teams going to line up for that? Salary dump maybe, but you aren't going to get much back, if at all.

Johnsson is $3.4M cap hit, about $2.5M in actual salary for next three years. OK, maybe a team is interested, but that's less than a million a year in savings.

Justin Holl had a $1M singing bonus this year, but we aren't trading him.

That's about the extent of it.

So you can probably move Freddy, but you need to replace him.

And you can probably move Johnsson, but the return won't amount to much.

Sorry, I just don't see the huge advantage to the Leafs here.

Maybe the Leafs need to look at their scouting situation. They have not been Able to develop their own goalie prospect or their own defensive prospects. They have looked elsewhere for both goalie and defence, maybe it is time to shift focus or scouting staff.
- oldhockeyfan

You are ready to give up on Woll, Scott, Liljegren and Sandin already? That was fast

Maybe the Leafs need to look at their scouting situation. They have not been Able to develop their own goalie prospect or their own defensive prospects. They have looked elsewhere for both goalie and defence, maybe it is time to shift focus or scouting staff.
- oldhockeyfan

Take advantage of teams cutting salaries to poach some high end scouts. Guys that drafted Josi or Pekka perhaps?

Maybe the Leafs need to look at their scouting situation. They have not been Able to develop their own goalie prospect or their own defensive prospects. They have looked elsewhere for both goalie and defence, maybe it is time to shift focus or scouting staff.
- oldhockeyfan

Their scouting looks great and they have the best scouts money can buy.


Goaltending takes so long to develop. Woll or Scott could be very good. Impossible to say.

In Horton's case, his was not insured because he signed the UFA contract with CBJ when he was still injured.. In Kesler's case, he was healthy when the Ducks signed him, so it was covered by insurance.
- PatC80

That's not how insurance works though. Insurance will generally make exclusions to particular injuries or parts of the body.

Example, if he never had a leg injury then those would likely still be insured.

Unless of course since it's his back that the insurance company didn't want to touch it or again, the premiums were so high for CBJ that they thought to risk it. It did not pay off really.

But I'm pretty sure they kicked off the whole LTIR contract trading trends we see now.

Not a lot of guys in the same position as Andersen, unfortunately.

If you go through them on CapFriendly, nothing really sticks out.

Kerfoot was slightly front-loaded, but not really by that much. In terms of actual dollars, he's now a $3.5M cap hit, with about $2.7M per year in actual salary for the next three years. Are teams going to line up for that? Salary dump maybe, but you aren't going to get much back, if at all.

Johnsson is $3.4M cap hit, about $2.5M in actual salary for next three years. OK, maybe a team is interested, but that's less than a million a year in savings.

Justin Holl had a $1M singing bonus this year, but we aren't trading him.

That's about the extent of it.

So you can probably move Freddy, but you need to replace him.

And you can probably move Johnsson, but the return won't amount to much.

Sorry, I just don't see the huge advantage to the Leafs here.
- Atomic Wedgie

In this world, teams are looking for ANY savings for this year I think. If you haven't, taking a read on the tsn article provides some insight into how teams are thinking.

I do believe a 1 million dollar savings on a guy like Johnsson is valuable but like a 3rd round pick becomes a 2nd round pick type of thing.

Not a lot of guys in the same position as Andersen, unfortunately.

If you go through them on CapFriendly, nothing really sticks out.

Kerfoot was slightly front-loaded, but not really by that much. In terms of actual dollars, he's now a $3.5M cap hit, with about $2.7M per year in actual salary for the next three years. Are teams going to line up for that? Salary dump maybe, but you aren't going to get much back, if at all.

Johnsson is $3.4M cap hit, about $2.5M in actual salary for next three years. OK, maybe a team is interested, but that's less than a million a year in savings.

Justin Holl had a $1M singing bonus this year, but we aren't trading him.

That's about the extent of it.

So you can probably move Freddy, but you need to replace him.

And you can probably move Johnsson, but the return won't amount to much.

Sorry, I just don't see the huge advantage to the Leafs here.
- Atomic Wedgie

A million a year is a lot for a 3.5 cap hit......

Most teams are going with 70-75 internal budgets.

Saving a M is huge.

In this world, teams are looking for ANY savings for this year I think. If you haven't, taking a read on the tsn article provides some insight into how teams are thinking.

I do believe a 1 million dollar savings on a guy like Johnsson is valuable but like a 3rd round pick becomes a 2nd round pick type of thing.
- Aaron_85

i'd take a 2nd for Johnsson, hell, i'd probably even take a 3rd at this point.

i'd take a 2nd for Johnsson, hell, i'd probably even take a 3rd at this point.
- matt1337

He's worth a second at least.

Their scouting looks great and they have the best scouts money can buy.


Goaltending takes so long to develop. Woll or Scott could be very good. Impossible to say.
- RogerRoeper

What the (frank) were they watching when they scouted Barrie.

What the (frank) were they watching when they scouted Barrie.
- Garnie

They saw a guy Colorado used as their #1 D in terms of usage in the playoffs who played well.

He's worth a second at least.
- RogerRoeper

perfect, sign me up. Save his cap and use either the 2nd or cap space to trade/sign a defender.

That's not how insurance works though. Insurance will generally make exclusions to particular injuries or parts of the body.

Example, if he never had a leg injury then those would likely still be insured.

Unless of course since it's his back that the insurance company didn't want to touch it or again, the premiums were so high for CBJ that they thought to risk it. It did not pay off really.

But I'm pretty sure they kicked off the whole LTIR contract trading trends we see now.
- Aaron_85

That's the part, I am not sure about.

so then why would teams care about trading LTIR contracts if they don't have to pay? The horton one is stupid in hindsight cause the guy was injury prone.
- matt1337

I started typing out a detailed explanation, and then realized I'm not sure how it works.

But it does work. We know that.

Horton contract was not stupid - when they acquired him, they knew he was never going to play another game. It was a conscious decision.

They saw a guy Colorado used as their #1 D in terms of usage in the playoffs who played well.
- RogerRoeper

They got tricked I guess.

That's not how insurance works though. Insurance will generally make exclusions to particular injuries or parts of the body.

Example, if he never had a leg injury then those would likely still be insured.

Unless of course since it's his back that the insurance company didn't want to touch it or again, the premiums were so high for CBJ that they thought to risk it. It did not pay off really.

But I'm pretty sure they kicked off the whole LTIR contract trading trends we see now.
- Aaron_85

That's exactly what it was with Horton.

I started typing out a detailed explanation, and then realized I'm not sure how it works.

But it does work. We know that.

Horton contract was not stupid - when they acquired him, they knew he was never going to play another game. It was a conscious decision.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think we needed to get to the cap max so we could go over it and sign Marner, something along those lines. I don’t think it usually helps teams other wise.

But I’m for sure not 100%

That's the part, I am not sure about.
- PatC80

I'm in the same boat. At any rate, it helped the leafs out.