Well we did get screwed out of patty
- SMS4016

We did, but who were we drafting in your "should have never drafted him" camp?

Well we did get screwed out of patty
- SMS4016

Edit

We did, but who were we drafting in your "should have never drafted him" camp?
- JW98FlyerFan

a lot of scouts had EP higher

That's the spirit. Too many in here would rather be proved right to the detriment of the team.
- MBFlyerfan

I don't really consider myself that type of guy, that craves being proved right. I'm sorry you chose to interpret my post that way. He & I voiced our opinions on the topic, which clearly differ. My last post was just a way of saying "we'll see".

I am a Flyers fan, and would genuinely be happy to be wrong about JVR if he is still with the team next season, which he almost definitely will be.

You're stating that JVR is a shot player. Bill just gave an analysis on JVR as a player. What in his analysis pointed towards JVR being a shot player? You claimed that your eyes told you that he is a shot player. Are you clairvoyant and can look into the future with your eyes or were your eyes looking at JVR this past season?
- MJL

Perhaps "shot" is a bit harsh. I did also say that I don't think he's a useless player that doesn't have a place in the NHL. Bottom line, I don't think he (and his contract) is a good fit for this team right now or in the near future. And if the team wants to be financially capable of making any moves this offseason that will materially improve the team, then getting rid of JVR's contract should be top priority. They can't, nor should they IMO move G. And although I'm not completely opposed to it, I also don't think that moving Jake is a good idea either. I find Jake extremely frustrating at times, but his production would be far more difficult to replace in the short term than JVR's.

How do all the stats in Bill's analysis explain why coach of the year finalist, AV, was making JVR a healthy scratch while the team desperately needed scoring?

PICK OF THE DAY looking to go 3-0 for the week. Drumroll.... take the over 48 in saints/raiders game tonight. You’re welcome
- SMS4016

Cover me if I lose?

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- Scoob

And that he actually thinks players would like this or be on board!

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- Scoob

Stupid, dangerous, insanity.

No way the players would ever go for it, nor should they.

Perhaps "shot" is a bit harsh. I did also say that I don't think he's a useless player that doesn't have a place in the NHL. Bottom line, I don't think he (and his contract) is a good fit for this team right now or in the near future. And if the team wants to be financially capable of making any moves this offseason that will materially improve the team, then getting rid of JVR's contract should be top priority. They can't, nor should they IMO move G. And although I'm not completely opposed to it, I also don't think that moving Jake is a good idea either. I find Jake extremely frustrating at times, but his production would be far more difficult to replace in the short term than JVR's.


- Big_E_88

Now here comes the spin as you attempt to walk back what you now realize were poorly thought out comments. You said that he stinks and that your eyes tell you he is pretty much shot.
Now if you had said originally what you said above that you don't think he is a good fit and that his contract could prevent the team from making other moves, we wouldn't have had much of a disagreement.

How do all the stats in Bill's analysis explain why coach of the year finalist, AV, was making JVR a healthy scratch while the team desperately needed scoring?
- Big_E_88

Scott Laughton and Robert Haag were also healthy scratched in the playoffs. Players have to play well.

FWIW: On The Athletic this morning, Corey Pronman posted the Mock Draft in which the beat writers (from The Athletic) make the picks for the teams they cover.

Charlie O'Connor has the Flyers taking Noel Gunler, a Swedish winger out of the SHL.

I've literally never heard of him and have no opinion one way or the other whether this is a good pick, a bad pick, or even whether #23 is remotely close to where the Flyers have this kid on their board.

My bet: whatever the Flyers do, within a year, PBrendl55 will be sharpshooting the Flyers for being moronic in not taking some other kid none of us has heard of before.
- Doc_Sarcasm

I would love the Gunler pick but frankly I doubt if he is on the board at #23. He would be somewhat of a gamble but I agree with O’Connors reasoning. The Flyers have enough “good” forwards in their prospect pool where they can afford to take a chance on an imperfect player that could be an elite scorer. His shot is probably the best in the draft and better than anyone on the Flyers right now. I disagree with O’Connor that playing in the SHL will give him a quicker path to the NHL. Numerous reports agree he lacks physicality, looses board battles and shys away from contact. This is in the SHL which is much less physical than the AHL or NHL. But hopefully that improves with age and maturity. His highlight reel is very impressive. Certainly has the potential to be the sniper they are lacking.

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- Scoob

What’s this now?

Cover me if I lose?
- Scoob

Sure as long as I get paid if you win

We did, but who were we drafting in your "should have never drafted him" camp?
- JW98FlyerFan

To be honest I don’t remember much in that draft as far as as top talent. We needed centers but it was known we were signing briere in January. So probably why they went with winger at 2. Just never liked the Jvr pick once saw him play. Way too soft. Can’t offer up a I preferred or who we should’ve drafted at that time

Brian Boyle > Nate Thompson

I had the weirdest dream tbe other night. I dreamt that Vineault was fired by the flyers.

I had the weirdest dream tbe other night. I dreamt that Vigneault was fired by the flyers.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Sounds like a nightmare.

Now here comes the spin as you attempt to walk back what you now realize were poorly thought out comments. You said that he stinks and that your eyes tell you he is pretty much shot.
Now if you had said originally what you said above that you don't think he is a good fit and that his contract could prevent the team from making other moves, we wouldn't have had much of a disagreement.



Scott Laughton and Robert Haag were also healthy scratched in the playoffs. Players have to play well.
- MJL

Now here comes the part where you turn into a Richard...
I said he was pretty much shot, and I stand by that. I acknowledge that he still has decent hands & could be an effective PP player, which is why I said from the start that he’s not useless. The only reason I backed off a little is that in the perfect situation, I could actually see him being fairly productive. Like if he somehow ended up on a roster that’s stacked with offensive talent like Colorado or TB. But on the Flyers or the majority of other rosters, he’s a one demensional player that needs to be playing with top 6 talent to be effective. Flyers don’t have the luxury of being able to hand him a spot on the top 2 lines.
It just sucks that with G, Laughton (who is more effective at LW than C), & Linblom the Flyers have to force JVR into one of the top 2 LW spots in order for him to come close to reaching his potential. And the impact that has on the flexibility of setting all the other lines.
Moving on from him due to his contract and limitations as a player should be the teams top priority.

PICK OF THE DAY looking to go 3-0 for the week. Drumroll.... take the over 48 in saints/raiders game tonight. You’re welcome
- SMS4016

Hmmmmm 17-17 at half? Hope you boys jumped on board again tonight. Thats about to be another $500 in the bank. Swami killing it for ya this week. About to be 3-0 this week

Now here comes the part where you turn into a Richard...
I said he was pretty much shot, and I stand by that. I acknowledge that he still has decent hands & could be an effective PP player, which is why I said from the start that he’s not useless. The only reason I backed off a little is that in the perfect situation, I could actually see him being fairly productive. Like if he somehow ended up on a roster that’s stacked with offensive talent like Colorado or TB. But on the Flyers or the majority of other rosters, he’s a one demensional player that needs to be playing with top 6 talent to be effective. Flyers don’t have the luxury of being able to hand him a spot on the top 2 lines.
It just sucks that with G, Laughton (who is more effective at LW than C), & Linblom the Flyers have to force JVR into one of the top 2 LW spots in order for him to come close to reaching his potential. And the impact that has on the flexibility of setting all the other lines.
Moving on from him due to his contract and limitations as a player should be the teams top priority.
- Big_E_88

Nah, calling you out for baseless comments isn't being a Richard. He was fairly productive last year in the regular season. You're backing off because you know you made some poorly thought out comments. He didn't play in the top 6 last regular season and he was productive. For his usage and deployment, his ES point totals were strong. The issue was his play in the playoffs but there were a lot of players on the team who didn't have a good playoff.
Continuing to draft and develop and grow the young players should be the teams top priority. Not moving on from JVR.


You continue to double down and continue to show that you don't have a grasp of the facts.

Pay a team 3 mill a year to take jvr...like ghost...he’s pretty damn useless.

Trade JvR for Benn, problem solved

PICK OF THE DAY looking to go 3-0 for the week. Drumroll.... take the over 48 in saints/raiders game tonight. You’re welcome
- SMS4016

That be 3-0 this week. Where the naysayers? Swami predicts their crying over another eagles loss

a lot of scouts had EP higher
- 2Real

That is flat out not true. Some had Heiskanen or Makar over NP -- including some Flyers scouts, but Hexy had final say, and there wasn't a clear consensus -- but no one I know of had Patrick lower than 4th or Petersson higher that year. Pettersson was a consensus top 10, though.

Nah, calling you out for baseless comments isn't being a Richard. He was fairly productive last year in the regular season. You're backing off because you know you made some poorly thought out comments. He didn't play in the top 6 last regular season and he was productive. For his usage and deployment, his ES point totals were strong. The issue was his play in the playoffs but there were a lot of players on the team who didn't have a good playoff.
Continuing to draft and develop and grow the young players should be the teams top priority. Not moving on from JVR.


You continue to double down and continue to show that you don't have a grasp of the facts.
- MJL

Draft and develop; the mantra for every nhl team