Ok, super random...

If the Pens could rid themselves of JJ by adding him to a Murray trade and the only return the Pens get is a 5th round pick, would you do it?
- Rinosaur

LOL is this a trick question. Of course.

Absolutely. Not even a question lol the Pens are instantly improved because of it.
- j.boyd919

And, to a point that you made on an earlier page...I'm 100% cool with a couple of dark years to if we get to watch the 3 future HOFers retire as Pens.

However, being a few years older, I remember EXACTLY why those 2001-2004 teams looked the way they did and it doesn't have to be THAT bad. They were forced to trade off their ENTIRE top 6 and Mario had to play with the ultimate Devil killer, Morozov lol.

But, seriously, it wasn't due to aging stars, it was forced trades and letting guys walk. Lang, Kovy, Straka, Jagr...

Those teams had very few ACTUAL NHL talent. Mario, Morozov (he actually would have fit the post 05 NHL pretty well...I mean, he was a late bloomer in the KHL), Kraft, Ferrence, Malone...outside of that it was ALL bottom 6 talent, or over the hill players, in Fata, Koltsov, Beech

Point being, that this team's stars are aging. But, we still have younger guys who ARE really good, or will be with Guentz (extremely underrated), Rust, Kapanen, Marino, Peterson, maybe even Jarry and Poulin...we didn't have that back then. Plus, Sid and Geno aren't "normal" superstars. Geno just upped his game in his mid 30's, Sid most likely remains producing at a top line center rate until he decides to retire. The window isn't 100% shut. And, we have guys that can carry us through a tough time while we restock.

Ramble done lol.

LOL is this a trick question. Of course.
- Tojo.

I had to ask. I didn't want to just propose it and start a Panik. See! Another one!

I reply late to comments all the time on days when I can't check as often.
- Tojo.

I thought you saw yourself out 😂😂😂.

But, seriously, I remember during the 09 run I was posting all of the time. Even up until the 2015/16 season I was always interested. But, I think RW's negativity just got to be too much. As in, the Pens win the cup but it was "luck". Of course they're lucky!!!! The parity in the league is DISGUSTINGLY even. But, they were also good where they needed to be.

The same with the statistical analysis. I grew up playing baseball at a high level...I understand stats. But, they NEVER give you a picture of what guys bring. Also, playing hockey my entire life, and now coaching too, things like locker room chemistry, small intangibles, are really important.

Now, Jack Johnson? No...he's an outlier in the fact that he's "objectively" bad. A guy like Hornquist? Saying that his role on the team doesn't align with his contract, and can be replaced, is 100% subjective. Same with everyone's opinions of many players.

Hell, look at Talbot's "advanced stats" in hindsight and he wasn't even a good 4th line center. But, the dude was a HUGE part of the Pens.

*I really am in the mood to rant today.

As someone like myself who isn't big in fancy stats the one I do fixate on is the tracking of entries/exits. IMO it's one of the most important ways to evaluate players impact on a team's transition game and more specifically, defensemen. His article does a deep dive on this and his impact on his teammates in order to identify the best type of dman the Pens should target to place next to him.

Basically, we need a true top-four dman next to him to mitigate his shortcomings. No shocker, but in the entries/exits area he not only ranks as worst on the team by a large margin, but one of the worst in the league.
- Rinosaur

Didnt Jack Johnson have really good zone exit analytics? I remember when he was signed and everyone was complaining, some of us were pointing out that he's was statistically one of the best defenseman at zone exits.

Of course, we've since discovered how flawed stats like that can be...

McCann-Domi-Tanev would be one hell of a 3rd line.
- nateca444

Domi is better as a winger
Danault would be perfect but he's already whining about ice time. No way he'd be happy as a 3C

GMJR will prob trade Rust to get Bonino back

Didnt Jack Johnson have really good zone exit analytics? I remember when he was signed and everyone was complaining, some of us were pointing out that he's was statistically one of the best defenseman at zone exits.

Of course, we've since discovered how flawed stats like that can be...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

His zone exits are probably the strongest part of his transition game, but where Marshall points out one of the issue is allowing zone entries which adversely affects your ability have an opportunity to exit. He allows zone entries at an alarming rate with incredibly poor gap control leaving his partner in the weeds.

Now, at simply being able to skate the puck out or get it to a forward once he has the puck? Sure, he's so so at that.

And, to a point that you made on an earlier page...I'm 100% cool with a couple of dark years to if we get to watch the 3 future HOFers retire as Pens.

However, being a few years older, I remember EXACTLY why those 2001-2004 teams looked the way they did and it doesn't have to be THAT bad. They were forced to trade off their ENTIRE top 6 and Mario had to play with the ultimate Devil killer, Morozov lol.

But, seriously, it wasn't due to aging stars, it was forced trades and letting guys walk. Lang, Kovy, Straka, Jagr...

Those teams had very few ACTUAL NHL talent. Mario, Morozov (he actually would have fit the post 05 NHL pretty well...I mean, he was a late bloomer in the KHL), Kraft, Ferrence, Malone...outside of that it was ALL bottom 6 talent, or over the hill players, in Fata, Koltsov, Beech

Point being, that this team's stars are aging. But, we still have younger guys who ARE really good, or will be with Guentz (extremely underrated), Rust, Kapanen, Marino, Peterson, maybe even Jarry and Poulin...we didn't have that back then. Plus, Sid and Geno aren't "normal" superstars. Geno just upped his game in his mid 30's, Sid most likely remains producing at a top line center rate until he decides to retire. The window isn't 100% shut. And, we have guys that can carry us through a tough time while we restock.

Ramble done lol.
- cranktheradio

I agree it will never get as dark as those days where they basically traded away anyone of value and I struggle to come up with anyone that came back in those trades that helped.

Of course those 4 years of stinking brought 5 top 5 picks they used to build a new foundation. We might be stuck in that middle ground where we're really just hoping to get in the playoffs and make a run. Too bad to really compete but not bad enough to get top picks.

Those years were rough, but at least they turned it around fairly quickly. But good luck having another 3 year stretch where you get Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and throw in Letang as a 3rd rounder.

Ok, super random...

If the Pens could rid themselves of JJ by adding him to a Murray trade and the only return the Pens get is a 5th round pick, would you do it?
- Rinosaur

I'd take a (frank)ing conditional 7th in 2029 lol

I agree it will never get as dark as those days where they basically traded away anyone of value and I struggle to come up with anyone that came back in those trades that helped.

Of course those 4 years of stinking brought 5 top 5 picks they used to build a new foundation. We might be stuck in that middle ground where we're really just hoping to get in the playoffs and make a run. Too bad to really compete but not bad enough to get top picks.

Those years were rough, but at least they turned it around fairly quickly. But good luck having another 3 year stretch where you get Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and throw in Letang as a 3rd rounder.
- Tojo.

Yea that's about as low as it gets. It was because ownership went bankrupt. They literally got nothing of value from any of the trades they made. Still have my Straka jersey with the vegas gold skating penguin (the third jersey at the time lol) but that's as low as it gets.

I'd take a (frank)ing conditional 7th in 2029 lol
- 668710

I wonder if there's any chance the Pens and Murray agree on a sign & trade. If Murray was wise he'd take a one or two year bridge and wait out the market.

I wonder if there's any chance the Pens and Murray agree on a sign & trade. If Murray was wise he'd take a one or two year bridge and wait out the market.
- Rinosaur

Especially because his value isn't that high plus the goalie market flood this free agency. He's a split season goalie anyways. He's never fully taken over as a starter in the regular season or even playoffs at that.

Especially because his value isn't that high plus the goalie market flood this free agency. He's a split season goalie anyways. He's never fully taken over as a starter in the regular season or even playoffs at that.
- 668710

Except when he won 15 of the 16 playoff wins for the 2016 cup...

Except when he won 15 of the 16 playoff wins for the 2016 cup...
- MattStrat

Yea, my bad he did, but are you really gonna argue that he's a bonafide 60 game starter?