They were both considered good value at their spots and they are both what you would consider physically ready for the NHL. I would not be at all shocked if they both see playing time this year.
- MacPatty

I loved both picks when they happened. Both wingers with decent size, what we need.

His dad passed away. Plus the injury factors.
- Feds91Stammer

Not to get too psychoanalytical, but I think another factor is the crazy success he had at such a young stage in his career. To come in and win two cups as a rookie has to create some odd expectations for yourself and how easy winning can be. The reports that have come out about him refusing to get on board with the coaching staff suggests this IMO.

Until we realize that he used 2.5 mil of the salary cap to sign a 41 year old Rob Scuderi...
- cranktheradio

Shero signed Scuds in 2013, not Rutherford. He didn't come on board until the summer of 2014.

I mean JR has a track record of moving guys not long after he brought them in. With that said he also has shown the ability to make his teams worse with trades. So while he may move JJ he may do so in a way that he manages to make the team worse. Either way it’s a believe it when I see it kind of thing.
- Feds91Stammer

Wow, you are really going against the grain with this one. The team could get worse if Johnson is moved? For the last two years all I have heard is the one and only reason we have lost any games was due to the fact Johnson was on the team.

Wait. Thats the sales pitch for Murray? That aint very good one. If he isnt good enough for the Pens. Why would anybody want him? His numbers have been pretty bad for 3 straights years.

Wait. Thats the sales pitch for Murray? That aint very good one. If he isnt good enough for the Pens. Why would anybody want him?
- poisondhearts37

The Pens spend to the cap, so it really comes down to money and if you believe the cheaper option gives you an equal chance to win, well then, you take the cheaper option.

The Pens spend to the cap, so it really comes down to money and if you believe the cheaper option gives you an equal chance to win, well then, you take the cheaper option.
- Rinosaur

Just waiving Horny, probably keeping both goalies and playing Rikky in the 3 LD could of been done too...

I mean JR has a track record of moving guys not long after he brought them in. With that said he also has shown the ability to make his teams worse with trades. So while he may move JJ he may do so in a way that he manages to make the team worse. Either way it’s a believe it when I see it kind of thing.
- Feds91Stammer

Oh yeah, all that is accurate but sometimes the sh!t (trades) he throws at walls sticks though...

Just waiving Horny, probably keeping both goalies and playing Rikky in the 3 LD could of been done too...
- MattStrat

I think keeping both goalies would have created more of a distraction than anything.

Wow, you are really going against the grain with this one. The team could get worse if Johnson is moved? For the last two years all I have heard is the one and only reason we have lost any games was due to the fact Johnson was on the team.
- Thunderbolt

Not what I mean at all. He may make the team better but manage to put the team in an overall worse position. Asset management and cap management are things.

Pardon if this is completely out of the blue however, I've been racking my brain trying to understand how valuable making the picks that turned into Poulin and Legare were to JR. I've been trying to keep up on the two Legare being much more difficult but I can't see why these two although very talented are the ones who were drafted and not these picks used to keep the window open
- PaulSTACKSny

I think drafting players would be a better way to go. Imagine if we had a bunch more quality elc players coming up the ranks. Might of been better for the window. When they need raises, trade them away at a high value point for picks/prospects and try to repeat.

Not to get too psychoanalytical, but I think another factor is the crazy success he had at such a young stage in his career. To come in and win two cups as a rookie has to create some odd expectations for yourself and how easy winning can be. The reports that have come out about him refusing to get on board with the coaching staff suggests this IMO.
- Rinosaur

Interesting stuff and thanks to everyone for the answers/insight. I haven't seen him play much since the cup runs. Obviously he looked great then.
Good Luck on the trade market.

Interesting stuff and thanks to everyone for the answers/insight. I haven't seen him play much since the cup runs. Obviously he looked great then.
Good Luck on the trade market.
- Queenie_5_hole

I truly believe he will find his game again wherever he lands. I think getting out of his comfort zone with a new staff would set him straight.

Interesting stuff and thanks to everyone for the answers/insight. I haven't seen him play much since the cup runs. Obviously he looked great then.
Good Luck on the trade market.
- Queenie_5_hole

On top of what everyone else has already said, he’s also an unathletic, positional goalie. When we won our first cup, we were possession animals playing a highly energetic fore and back check hockey with suffocating team defense that controlled the high danger chances. The second year we won the cup we overcompensated for Letang’s injury by parking the bus and trying to limit chances to the outside. This kind of stuff played into Murr's strengths when he was onto of his game, which was always being in the best possible position when shots came. The years later we kinda stopped doing either and became a team that traded high danger chances back and forth and things got dicey for Murray who doesn’t have the athleticism to keep up with high event hockey. His confidence deteriorated as a result, which combined with a major family death and injuries has lead to where he is today. I think Murray will do well on a team built to either dominate high danger chances or are committed to AV Rangers style defensive hockey. He can rebuild his confidence in one of those situations and get back to his game. That won't happen here. I think everyone, the FO, coaching staff, the fanbase, and Murr himself, are ready to move on, which is not a conducive environment for a resurgence in confidence.

Maybe a bit of hubris, thinking he was the man after two strong cup performances but also he has had struggles since his father passed away.

Id also say that his game is better suited to a team that plays clamp down defence rather than a run and gun team like the Pens.

On the right team he might win a Vezina, on the wrong team he will have a sub 90% save rate.

Finally someone hits the nail on the head. Murray doesnt suck. Just not right for this team. Most people in Pittsburgh hate him because he was the guy that helped force their man-crush Marc Andre Fleury out the door

We also lost our goalie coach who Murray really respected and learned a lot from Mike Bales our old goalie coach (currently with Buffalo). I think Murray has some weaknesses in his game. I think his father's illness and Murrays mental game made him second guess his ability. He is still a very clutch performer and showed up big in the playoffs multiple times. I agree with most, that with a better defensive system he will probably do well. We played a more structured game during our cup runs and Murray had some incredible saves. I think he could be a solid player at times. I think he will play well for whoever he plays for.

The fact that JR said that JJ could be used as depth is good news. Also gave the message they tried trading him and we’re unable to do so, so they’ll bury him in the AHL or scratch him

I can't imagine GMJR wants to continue the JJ train but then again he may still see value there (not sure how). JJ has played...better(?) since coming to Pittsburgh but he's not worth wasting much time on at this point.

Murray is done here in Pittsburgh and while I don't think GMJR is going to just give him away. There are potential suitors out there. The question is will they wait him out?

The fact that JR said that JJ could be used as depth is good news. Also gave the message they tried trading him and we’re unable to do so, so they’ll bury him in the AHL or scratch him
- drummer829

Send JJ to the Greenville Swamp Rabbits and in return we will send you our (frank)wad JJ.

I can't imagine GMJR wants to continue the JJ train but then again he may still see value there (not sure how). JJ has played...better(?) since coming to Pittsburgh but he's not worth wasting much time on at this point.

Murray is done here in Pittsburgh and while I don't think GMJR is going to just give him away. There are potential suitors out there. The question is will they wait him out?
- Pharos34

Are they doing the rule where nhl players can speak to teams prior to the official start of free agency? If so, JR could get a deal done with a team who knows they aren’t getting the goalie they want in free agency

Finally someone hits the nail on the head. Murray doesnt suck. Just not right for this team. Most people in Pittsburgh hate him because he was the guy that helped force their man-crush Marc Andre Fleury out the door
- Amanion

That is as true as a statement ever said. In June, 2017, Murray just had back to back shutouts helping the Pens to back to back Cups and yet, so many fans just hated him because they knew, their boy wonder(who couldn't deliver those Cups the previous seven seasons) was going to be taken by Vegas in the expansion draft.

I believe that Murray getting a fresh start and hopefully for a fan base isn't in so much with the current goalie will have better success.

It's incredible how much hate Murray has gotten in Pittsburgh at times. The guy won two Cups and I think that high bar set made it impossible for him to succeed long term here, cap implications aside.

The Penguins were a really good team in 2016. They could've won the Cup with me in net, but Murray still had to make some big plays. In 2017, we werent as good, but MAF/Murray led a good pairing to win it all. Since then our team has taken a nose dive and Murray has been let down and more exposed than ever before.

People have a weird obsession with MAF in this town. There have been a lot of stories of Murray being called out in public about MAF. MAF cost us some of Malkin/Crosby's best years to potentially win the Cup. He's a first class human and one to be remembered, but it is just weird how many people in the Penguins fan base would take a bullet for him.

Murray will leave because of the salary cap. If Murray was signed to a reasonable contract, I'd be more willing to keep him and trade Jarry. I think we made a big mistake when we kept Murray and traded MAF & a 2nd (2020 2nd). We should have cashed out on Murray' s high value and used MAF until his end, likely backstopped by Jarry being ready.

A Murray for Sam Bennett trade in 2017 likely would've saved us from trading for Brassard and doubling down on the trade by getting McCann/Bjugstad.

Everyone’s reaction if JR gets rid of JJ:


- Feds91Stammer

Fantastic and true

Maybe the league allows one whole contract to be buried or bought out with no cap penalty to assist teams with being cap compliant. "See you later Jack!"

Maybe the league allows one whole contract to be buried or bought out with no cap penalty to assist teams with being cap compliant. "See you later Jack!"
- Aaron_85

I read something about NHL trying to help and it mentioned compliance buyouts, but GMs were not in favor of this