You can’t, the arbitrators award is binding unless it’s over four million dollars I believe.
- Pacificgem

The Canucks can walk away.

Jake doesn't get to play with McJesus or Drais but I would very much walk away anything over 2.5 for even a year.
- manvanfan

👍

My offer stands 2/2.25m

Surely RFA/UFA agreements that are being signed NOW can be brought in, though, for the purpose of comparison? Also, wouldn’t recent agreements carry more weight than those signed 1-3 years ago?
- SlightlyOffside

Yes RFA signings can be used and I just read an article in how the PA is really good at manipulating this. Apparently during the last CBA they negotiated the right to heavily influence the order in which the rulings are scheduled which allows them to start with the most favourable scenarios as a baseline for the rest of the rulings.

I'll see if I can dig up the article but it might be paid. The system heavily favours the players in terms of $ but is a brutal process and most don't make it to arbitration. The ones that do generally pay the players above their worth. The PA tries to get favourable contracts signed early which will influence the following contracts.

I rarely side with the owners but the players seem to be abusing the system in this case.

i don't think i was being clear (friday afternoon ftw).

for sure you can cite other contracts.

you just can't say that the team (whatever team) is losing money, can't afford it blah blah blah. or say/cite league revenues declining etc.

for sure they (the team or player) want to cite contracts (and the fresher the better.)
- RealityChecker

Can this be used as an argument?

You can’t, the arbitrators award is binding unless it’s over four million dollars I believe.
- Pacificgem

Awards over $4.53M, where the player has elected arbitration, can be “walked” by the team.

To use off-season LTIR the team must provide doctors proof that the player in question will continue to be injured at the beginning of the regular season for 10 NHL games and 24 calendar days.

in practical terms, no, this will not happen with ferland. he was not on LTIR when the season ended so getting him to 1) agree to a physical when not required for all players; and 2) have a doctor give a medical opinion on concussion issues with certainty that he can't play for at least 10 games at the beginning of next season (when they don't even know when it will start) is virtually nill.

anyway, this is a minor point and won't even be necessary. it's like grasping at MTA straws.
- RealityChecker

He got injured and sent home from the bubble, he ended on injured reserve.... don't know about the rest.

Awards over $4.53M, where the player has elected arbitration, can be “walked” by the team.
- SlightlyOffside

What if a team can't fit the player under the cap even at 2M without going over the over?

Can this be used as an argument?


- A_SteamingLombardi

of course. those are easily quantifiable metrics.

neck - 22 inches
chest - 34DD
waist - 42

The Canucks can walk away.
- manvanfan

No, I don’t believe they can, here’s from the CBA.

“NHL teams can't walk away from arbitration awards that are less than $4.39M”

Can this be used as an argument?


- A_SteamingLombardi

27pt average the last 3yrs

That is pretty sad on its own

The Canucks can walk away.
- manvanfan

Not unless it is over the set amount, it was 4.22 in 2019 no idea what it is this year.

He got injured and sent home from the bubble, he ended on injured reserve.... don't know about the rest.
- Pres.cup

being injured and put on LTIR are two different things.

no cap during playoffs means no reason for LTIR, ergo injured but no LTIR at the end of the season.

What if a team can't fit the player under the cap even at 2M without going over the over?
- manvanfan

That's why there is an additional buyout window for teams who go to arbitration.

What if a team can't fit the player under the cap even at 2M without going over the over?
- manvanfan

Not the player’s problem. The team will have to find another way to be compliant (buyout, waiver, trade, LTIR, etc).

TML were very creative with this over the last couple of years...JB might want to check out what they did!

Sven's coming to camp to make the team.

I'm surprised they haven't told LE he is going to the minors this year so he can sign another contract after mutually terminating his.

What if a team can't fit the player under the cap even at 2M without going over the over?
- manvanfan

then they have to dump another player(s).

once the arbitration is awarded, both sides are stuck with each for a year at least. the player can't even be traded if i recall correctly.

Is there another buyout window this year before the season starts? If so i'm wondering if the Canucks would consider buying out Ferland if it looks like he won't go on LITR. The guy just can't be relied on. Ideally, it would be great if he was LITR for the next 3 years.


Buy out would be:

2020-21 = 1.55 mil
2021-22 = 805k
2022-23 = 1.85 mil
2023-26 (3years) 1.055 mil per year

basically gives you 2mil in cap space

Arbitration is a gamble and I agree with Nucker, stats are what count not lifestyle. Interesting to see how this plays out.
- Marwood

Oh, it certainly is! I definitely agree with that.

If it goes to arb, I can see a settlement around 3. A bit steep, but I could live with it as long as he can guarantee me 20 goals a season, and throws his weight around.

The risk for me is whether his 18 goals this year can be duplicated or even exceeded. It's the only thing he's got going for him if they go the arb route. And it's not like he's been putting up those sorts of numbers consistently... it has only been for the single season.

But will that fact matter? I would like it if it was taken into serious consideration in a case. But tough to say.

then they have to dump another player(s).

once the arbitration is awarded, both sides are stuck with each for a year at least. the player can't even be traded if i recall correctly.
- RealityChecker

I don't like that rule. If team wants to walk away they should. Player will turn into UFA free to sign anywhere.

I know cap space is tight with just under 8m left, but I'm sure we could somehow get a 8m contract for Petro and offload a Sutter or Baertschi with a mid round pick to make it work.

While Petro is also 30. Much of an upgrade over Tanev and Stecher

then they have to dump another player(s).

once the arbitration is awarded, both sides are stuck with each for a year at least. the player can't even be traded if i recall correctly.
- RealityChecker

Yep, it's really not a good scenario for the team.

Best case scenario I think will be if they sign JV to a reasonable cap longer term deal and find a taker for a similarly priced dman.

Something like 2.75 x 5 years and trade for Fluery from CAR who I expect will be eligible for more than they want to pay him.

I don't like that rule. If team wants to walk away they should. Player will turn into UFA free to sign anywhere.
- manvanfan

i think players negotiated it this way because if everyone got to walk then theyd be ufas after most teams have blown their loads july 1st (usually)

What if a team can't fit the player under the cap even at 2M without going over the over?
- manvanfan

Then they get to use the second buyout period to fix their house.

Is there another buyout window this year before the season starts? If so i'm wondering if the Canucks would consider buying out Ferland if it looks like he won't go on LITR. The guy just can't be relied on. Ideally, it would be great if he was LITR for the next 3 years.


Buy out would be:

2020-21 = 1.55 mil
2021-22 = 805k
2022-23 = 1.85 mil
2023-26 (3years) 1.055 mil per year

basically gives you 2mil in cap space
- Mungo

I agree he is their best option but I think it might be murky considering his health status. He is also rumored to have an uninsured contract which could play into it.