The goal should never be "Let's be content with being a bubble team for the next few years. We will compete eventually when our picks make the NHL."
The problem when "building for a couple more years" when you have a young core ready to compete now, is you become the Oilers, or Buffalo. Last year we proved that we are more then just a simple bubble team. It is time to improve on that. If that means paying a few assets for a top pairing #1 Dman(at worst a 1.5) then we do it. His cap hit of 8.25 is fine if we get the right cap dump(s) in the deal as well. He is not overpaid for what he is.
- Retinalz

The biggest negative to trading for OEL to me is that Tanner would become a Canucks fan....

I mean Hog was drafted last year and there’s talk about him already making the team next year, Pod is supposedly a plug and play prospect once his KHL contract is up. The game has changed with more speed/skill and less physicality, kids are ready sooner nowadays, the really good prospects don’t spend 3-4 years developing anymore.

Why can’t we achieve to be like Tampa? We have the high end homegrown talent already, now we just need to build around them properly instead of blowing our loads on overpriced/old UFA’s.
- Nucker101

Didn't TB trade for Ryan McD, traded two first round picks this year? Also Kuch is 27, Hedman 29. They waited a long time, had some down years, and part of their success was UFA's seeing them as their best shot for a cup and taking cheap one year deals to make it happen. The TB model is very unique and not something to copy.

There was a what, 3 month layoff between the regular season and playoffs? JV came into the regular preseason out of shape, and worked his way up over the course of the year. Good for him on setting those highs. Then, he came into the post-season training camp out of shape again. They didn't have the same amount of time to get him going – that's on him. I'm not saying his expectations should go up, but if he's a top 6 player he would elevate those around him – or at least look like a player who should be played up there. He didn't, save maybe one game in the playoffs, look like someone who shouldn't be in the bottom 6.

He's trending up, but is highly inconsistent and invisible for large stretches. Do you think he's living up to his potential? Do you think he's giving it everything he has, 24/7, to be the best hockey player?
- NewYorkNuck

Buff used to come to camp insanely over weight every year. Was he punished for it? No.

Beagle comes to camp in insanely good shape every year. Should he deserve top 6 minutes?

Time to base it off JV's play and how he is used by the team.

He's not a play driver. He's a compliment to one. Does that mean you have to force someone better into a worse role to suit him? No. What you do is find him a play driver. That this year was Gaudette for him. Did you see Gaudette and Virtanen together in the playoffs? Not much if they even did.

Not everybody is Petey or Hughes. That doesn't make them worthless. You just have to make the most of their worth. Slapping JV on the 4th line with a couple of players who don't drive play, have very little offence and ask a compliment player to do it himself.

Didn't TB trade for Ryan McD, traded two first round picks this year? Also Kuch is 27, Hedman 29. They waited a long time, had some down years, and part of their success was UFA's seeing them as their best shot for a cup and taking cheap one year deals to make it happen. The TB model is very unique and not something to copy.
- Retinalz

I don’t mean copy exactly. I mean their philosophy. Like you mentioned, they make trades instead of huge UFA splashes usually, the players they trade for usually are on good contracts. JB did that with Miller beautifully. Tampa also value drafts picks pretty highly, there’s a reason they can afford to make those trades, they do a great job of accumulating draft picks as well.

How many of their good players were guys who they handed out big UFA contracts to vs players they developed, traded for, or signed as reasonable UFA’s?

Ditto with Boston.

Buff used to come to camp insanely over weight every year. Was he punished for it? No.

Beagle comes to camp in insanely good shape every year. Should he deserve top 6 minutes?

Time to base it off JV's play and how he is used by the team.

He's not a play driver. He's a compliment to one. Does that mean you have to force someone better into a worse role to suit him? No. What you do is find him a play driver. That this year was Gaudette for him. Did you see Gaudette and Virtanen together in the playoffs? Not much if they even did.

Not everybody is Petey or Hughes. That doesn't make them worthless. You just have to make the most of their worth. Slapping JV on the 4th line with a couple of players who don't drive play, have very little offence and ask a compliment player to do it himself.
- manvanfan

Buff was also an elite player by that time, and (if i recall) was overweight throughout the season as well.

Buff was also an elite player by that time, and (if i recall) was overweight throughout the season as well.
- Retinalz

An enigma he was. In Wpg he dropped 50 lbs when he would come to training camp every year pretty much. He wasn't always elite. 25 was his above average season.

Buff used to come to camp insanely over weight every year. Was he punished for it? No.

Beagle comes to camp in insanely good shape every year. Should he deserve top 6 minutes?

Time to base it off JV's play and how he is used by the team.

He's not a play driver. He's a compliment to one. Does that mean you have to force someone better into a worse role to suit him? No. What you do is find him a play driver. That this year was Gaudette for him. Did you see Gaudette and Virtanen together in the playoffs? Not much if they even did.

Not everybody is Petey or Hughes. That doesn't make them worthless. You just have to make the most of their worth. Slapping JV on the 4th line with a couple of players who don't drive play, have very little offence and ask a compliment player to do it himself.
- manvanfan

This is tiresome and not worth the pixels. JV just isn't a good enough player despite having all the tools to be. Clearly you see otherwise. All good.

I don’t mean copy exactly. I mean their philosophy. Like you mentioned, they make trades instead of huge UFA splashes usually, the players they trade for usually are on good contracts. JB did that with Miller beautifully. Tampa also value drafts picks pretty highly, there’s a reason they can afford to make those trades, they do a great job of accumulating draft picks as well.

How many of their good players were guys who they handed out big UFA contracts to vs players they developed, traded for, or signed as reasonable UFA’s?

Ditto with Boston.
- Nucker101

Ryan McD is the closest on the cup winning tea, he had one year left and had a big extension after it.

Found https://www.spotrac.com/, limites how far back you can go w/o premium but:

2019: Curtis McElhinney 2.6m
2017:Dan Girardi 3m UFA, chris kunitz 2m

Boston is a bad example, recently there was Backes. I won't bother looking for others.

Ryan McD is the closest on the cup winning tea, he had one year left and had a big extension after it.

Found https://www.spotrac.com/, limites how far back you can go w/o premium but:

2019: Curtis McElhinney 2.6m
2017:Dan Girardi 3m UFA, chris kunitz 2m

Boston is a bad example, recently there was Backes. I won't bother looking for others.
- Retinalz

So Tampa is pretty reasonable then. Boston is far from a bad example, they don’t rely on UFA for core players. Chara was the big one but that was a rare and unique opportunity. Backes is a rare outlier for them. Usually they stick to mid-tier UFA’s for the most part. Belesky (frank)ed them too.

Like I said, compare these teams good players and how they were acquired. The difference between the ones that were acquired without spending big UFA dollars vs the ones that were is a huge gap.

Canucks already spent core player money on LE and Myers, adding a 3rd UFA player at similar cost is probably not the best move.

This is tiresome and not worth the pixels. JV just isn't a good enough player despite having all the tools to be. Clearly you see otherwise. All good.
- NewYorkNuck

No kidding it's tiresome listening to some Canucks fans who cry for hitting and scoring in a player for years and then when one comes around all they do is cry about it because he hasn't lived up to the exceeding high expectations of some comparable that comes around once every 10 years.

The goal should never be "Let's be content with being a bubble team for the next few years. We will compete eventually when our picks make the NHL."
The problem when "building for a couple more years" when you have a young core ready to compete now, is you become the Oilers, or Buffalo. Last year we proved that we are more then just a simple bubble team. It is time to improve on that. If that means paying a few assets for a top pairing #1 Dman(at worst a 1.5) then we do it. His cap hit of 8.25 is fine if we get the right cap dump(s) in the deal as well. He is not overpaid for what he is.
- Retinalz

The problem is, there’s too many balls in the air, there’s too many things that are inhibiting Jim Benning from making the team better because he spent too much money on the bottom six, our prospect pool is not that deep, and the young talent that we have on the team we need on the team to remain competitive.

It has nothing to do with OEL‘s salary, he’s a top pairing defenceman in the league and he gets paid what he’s worth, the problem is to make a fair (hockey) trade we don’t have the assets to do that in my opinion. Now you can offer up Boeser and Juolevi as well as a first round pick but that makes the top six worse but the defence better.

You’re not really any further ahead and you just traded a 23-year-old 20 to 30 goal scoring winger for a 29-year-old defenceman.

So Tampa is pretty reasonable then. Boston is far from a bad example, they don’t rely on UFA for core players. Chara was the big one but that was a rare and unique opportunity. Backes is a rare outlier for them. Usually they stick to mid-tier UFA’s for the most part. Belesky (frank)ed them too.

Like I said, compare these teams good players and how they were acquired. The difference between the ones that were acquired without spending big UFA dollars vs the ones that were is a huge gap.

Canucks already spent core player money on LE and Myers, adding a 3rd UFA player at similar cost is probably not the best move.
- Nucker101

Boston just has been living off their core for far too long without finding anymore players to take over. Hard to do when always going for a cup and drafting at the end of the first. Really they are sort of becoming the version of Van a few years ago.

Boston just has been living off their core for far too long without finding anymore players to take over. Hard to do when always going for a cup and drafting at the end of the first. Really they are sort of becoming the version of Van a few years ago.
- manvanfan

Won't be long before Boston is where Vancouver was with the Sedins. The difference will be whether ownership wants to try and compete with an old core that can't do it anymore, or if they will allow a proper rebuild.

No kidding it's tiresome listening to some Canucks fans who cry for hitting and scoring in a player for years and then when one comes around all they do is cry about it because he hasn't lived up to the exceeding high expectations of some comparable that comes around once every 10 years.
- manvanfan

What the fuck are you even saying? What comparables did I make? And the exceedingly high expectations of learning and applying himself? Get bent

This was a better place when you took a break

I mean Hog was drafted last year and there’s talk about him already making the team next year, Pod is supposedly a plug and play prospect once his KHL contract is up. The game has changed with more speed/skill and less physicality, kids are ready sooner nowadays, the really good prospects don’t spend 4 years developing anymore.

Why can’t we achieve to be like Tampa? We have the high end homegrown talent already, now we just need to build around them properly instead of blowing our loads on overpriced/old UFA’s.
- Nucker101

It was a process for the Tampa Bay lightning in that they were good, then they were bad for a year, they drafted well when they had the opportunity, and then they were good again, a bit of a cyclical thing. Suddenly they’re loaded with talent and they win the Stanley Cup, although they have been competitive for a decade with a few down years plugged into those years, there’s nothing wrong with that.

What the fuck are you even saying? What comparables did I make? And the exceedingly high expectations of learning and applying himself? Get bent

This was a better place when you took a break :thumbsup:
- NewYorkNuck

II don't make a difference to this place, try not to act so butt hurt.

It was a process for the Tampa Bay lightning in that they were good, then they were bad fora year, they drafted well when they had the opportunity, and then they were good again, a bit of a cyclical thing. Suddenly they’re loaded with talent and they win the Stanley Cup, although they have been competitive for a decade with a few down years plugged into those years, there’s nothing wrong with that.
- Pacificgem

Of course there isn't anything wrong. But over that decade they made moves to compete faster. We are literally doing the same thing now, as they did 10 or so years ago. Trying to get a young core used to winning.

What the fuck are you even saying? What comparables did I make? And the exceedingly high expectations of learning and applying himself? Get bent

This was a better place when you took a break
- NewYorkNuck

You know what’s wrong with this place, and that includes me being guilty of it, is that just because someone has a different opinion than you we start to attack them personally. He just has a different opinion than you, why can’t that be OK?

Of course there isn't anything wrong. But over that decade they made moves to compete faster. We are literally doing the same thing now, as they did 10 or so years ago. Trying to get a young core used to winning.
- Retinalz

I’m fine with making those moves but I’m saying that expensive UFA’s is probably the worst way to go about it

Of course there isn't anything wrong. But over that decade they made moves to compete faster. We are literally doing the same thing now, as they did 10 or so years ago. Trying to get a young core used to winning.
- Retinalz

To the best of my recollection they didn’t start making moves to be competitive two years after they drafted Steve Stamkos, it wasn’t until well into his Tampa Bay Lightning tenure that they had the assets to start making moves and trade picks. To me that’s a huge difference than what you’d like to do way too early in the Quinn Hughes and Elias Pettersson Canuck careers.

You know what’s wrong with this place, and that includes me being guilty of it, is that just because someone has a different opinion than you we start to attack them personally. He just has a different opinion than you, why can’t that be OK?
- Pacificgem

This is a problem on the internet in general

It was a process for the Tampa Bay lightning in that they were good, then they were bad for a year, they drafted well when they had the opportunity, and then they were good again, a bit of a cyclical thing. Suddenly they’re loaded with talent and they win the Stanley Cup, although they have been competitive for a decade with a few down years plugged into those years, there’s nothing wrong with that.
- Pacificgem

Colorado kind of did the same thing. Got a high pick and a couple years later sucked again for a year or two and added some high picks.

Maybe that's what Van should do. Purge a bit in a year to get a better draft pick. Trying to add another real good player drafting mid rounds isn't as easy drafting top 10. Possibly winning a lotto spot then.

No kidding it's tiresome listening to some Canucks fans who cry for hitting and scoring in a player for years and then when one comes around all they do is cry about it because he hasn't lived up to the exceeding high expectations of some comparable that comes around once every 10 years.
- manvanfan

It's tiresome listening to fans try to defend someone who lacks maturity and after numerous meetings, offers of high level dieticians, chefs, trainers, JV still can't get it together. Did he put up good numbers? Sure, but so did dozens of other tweeners on other teams who are being walked away from because they're just going to be too expensive to keep around in a flat cap world and he's been given enough chances. He was drafted 6th overall as a 1st line RW power forward, he hasn't developed into that, hasn't earned that ice time and quite frankly never will. Saying he's a complimentary player on a line is saying he's useless unless everyone else does the work for him and he just sweeps up the pieces. You know who we had that wanted millions for that? Anson Carter, who basically just stayed in front of the net and let Daniel shoot the puck and let it bounce in off of his body or stick shaft and got 30 goals out of it. JV is exactly the same, the only difference is, he's a BC boy and too many people are fixated on having as many players from BC on the Canucks regardless of whether or not they're fits for the team or even worth the price.

For every Troy Stetcher who grew up here and worked his ass off to at least be worth attempting to resign (at a much lower price) you have JV who has all the tools, but no brains and no willingness to put it all together consistantly or even show that he CAN be consistant. I'm not going to be upset if he goes, I won't be upset if they keep him, but I will be upset if they try and spend assets to "give him someone who can drive the play" because frankly, that's a worst waste of time, resources and assets then trading him for something and wishing him well in his future endeavours.

You know what’s wrong with this place, and that includes me being guilty of it, is that just because someone has a different opinion than you we start to attack them personally. He just has a different opinion than you, why can’t that be OK?
- Pacificgem

I didn't even say anything about his opinion, I just tried to give him a different perspective to look at JV being a useful NHL player for this hockey club if he can be used in a way to maximize what he can contribute.

Don't worry I know I played my part well.

Won't be long before Boston is where Vancouver was with the Sedins. The difference will be whether ownership wants to try and compete with an old core that can't do it anymore, or if they will allow a proper rebuild.
- Retinalz

Boston was able to be competitive way longer than Vancouver was I think because the Sedins only started to be really good hockey players at about 28 years of age in 2009.

In 2011, when Boston won the cup, most of their good offensive top six players were in the early 20s with some veteran leader ship sprinkled in there. I think they went to the finals twice and lost since 2011 where the Vancouver Canucks just faded away quickly as the Sedins got old really fast and Mike Gillis couldn’t draft to save his life.