I'm on board with a rebuild but not like this.

These 4 core deserve more respect. And they deserve to know the plan.

Never thought I'd say this but "Where's John McDonough when you need him?"

He was a hard-ass and pretty old school but he had the utmost respect for his players and the franchise he ran.
- Tyler Cameron

Yes, I'm on board with a rebuild and have been for a couple of years, and I definitely agree that the plan (IF there is one - I'm still suspect), should have been shared with the core guys.

Wish they'd taken the NYR approach to it, both with the fans and their remaining core.

Assuming that there are no more trades involving defense personnel (I hope there are), we are left with what I would term five "experienced" dmen (Keith, Murphy, DeHaan, Seabrook, and Zadorov) and potentially five "inexperienced" dmen (Boqvist, Mitchell, Carlsson, Beaudin, and Kalynuk). Let the five inexperienced guys battle in out in camp, and keep the top three, sending the fourth back to Rockford. Now we have eight defensemen, and I would make four pairings. For example

Keith-Murphy
DeHaan-Mitchell
Zadorov-Boqvist
Carlsson-Seabrook

(In this example, Kalynuk and Beaudin go back to Rockford, but it could be anyone.

(These pairing may be way out in left field, but some pairings where each inexperienced dman is paired with an experienced dman.)

Three pairings suit up for each game, and one pairing sits. I would rotate the four pairings equally (every dman on the roster plays three of every four games). Would the players, especially the vets, like this? Probably not, but we are in rebuild mode, right? On each pairings "off game", the experienced dman coaches the inexperienced dman in techniques and strategies of the game as they watch together. It becomes somewhat of a mentoring program that the experienced dmen would have to buy in on. In my example, when the "all experienced" pairing of Keith-Murphy has their "off game", they are scouting all of the dmen, expecially the inexperienced dmen, to provide instruction to them. This also takes a little bit of wear and tear off of our older, injury prone guys, as well as our young guys who have not yet developed their bodies into fully "NHL ready" bodies.

Is this a stupid idea, or an idea that the coaches could not get buy in on? I readily admit I do not have a great degree of hockey knowledge, but it seems to me, if we are not consumed with doing everything we can to win every game, and are rather consumed with development of the "new wave" of players that will take us to the top again, it makes sense to me.
- rackman89

Not a bad idea to rotate dmen. But be aware that Colliton will not rest Keith, Murphy, Zadorov because they are his best. He would want his best on ice each game.. putting one inexperienced with one veteran works best if Carlsson is solid. I expect newbie rookies other than Carlsson, and Boqvist will have their up and down moments. Carlsson will have some hiccups too but he is going to be solid..it is coming.

There is only so much off ice mentoring and most veterans do not go those extra miles as your plan calls for.

If the 8th seed in your example is an inexperienced dman. he gains more by playing regularly in the AHL. He could, however, be rotated in a couple times here to fill an injury void. But I would return him to the AHL unless he was so good. Then he gets a longer look and more likely his performance level will not continue as well

A few games though does open his eyes to a better understanding where his deficiencies are and what it takes to play NHL. The Blackhawks would probably even tell him what he needs to work on back in the AHL

I would expect you to approve, you love meatheads. The top 6 forward group is every bit lacking size and physicality as the D. It’s a zero move.
- Ogilthorpe2

I think you have the wrong guy. I hate Reaves, Marchant, and Bettman (all 3 meatheads). I like clean, physical hockey, not the pussified version played today.

It isn’t, IMO.

Replaces a top 6 at best - middle 6 at worst - skater with a probable 3rd pairing defenseman.
- StLBravesFan

Look at the money/cap angle. Kane/ADB/Kubalik take up 25.4% of the cap now. With Saad still here it would have been about 33% in 4 players. Add Toews on to that and it becomes about 46% of the cap. Further, add Seabrook on top of that and whoa it becomes about 54% of the cap in 6 players.

Player for player the deal favours the Avs who are pretty close to a Stanley Cup team. Saad gets them closer. Bowman has to find a way to strengthen other areas of his roster. Whether he can do it or not is debatable. And who knows what Rocky is doing with the budget. He may be taking accounting classes from Professor Eugene Melnyk, who knows?

Core reaction via Toews

https://theathletic.com/2...e-jonathan-toews-its-sad/

And, please, none of the "he's crying all the way to the bank / shouldn't have taken that much money..." BS that always accompanies these stories.
A) you would not have turned down that money when offered AND earned
B) These guys are human beings and that completely discounts that fact.

If you've never had a job where you were making lots of money, but were miserable, it may be hard to understand. Unfortunately, for them, they can't just change employers when that's the case, like you and I can. Choice is quit, a la Big Buff, or deal with a bad situation as best you can.
- pdx2ord

Look, we are all entitled to our opinions, even if you don't agree or like it.

There's a hard cap, there's no revenue from Covid, WTF do you want GMs to do?

Its very easy to say "wave a magic wand and make Toews happy"

Reality is a female dog!

And Saad was one of the best PK forwards. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
If Zadorov was the target, should’ve sent a worthless POS like Nylander the other way.
- Ogilthorpe2

Except, their GM might not be an idiot

Look, we are all entitled to our opinions, even if you don't agree or like it.

There's a hard cap, there's no revenue from Covid, WTF do you want GMs to do?

Its very easy to say "wave a magic wand and make Toews happy"

Reality is a female dog!
- vabeachbear

Yes, I have my opinion, I stated it, and you and others clearly didn't like it. How the world works.

Yes, with COVID and the Cap, hard decisions have to be made. I'm not asking for magic, I'm just saying that we need to recognize these guys are human, no matter how much some may think their money should make them happy under any circumstances. I wish the FO had made their plan earlier, made it clearer to the fans and to the core, who I believe are owed some respect for what they brought to the team.

ETA: I find blaming 19 & 88 as individuals for the cap-strapped situation we are in ridiculous, so that idea sets me off every time. Who offered them that money?

I think you have the wrong guy. I hate Reaves, Marchant, and Bettman (all 3 meatheads). I like clean, physical hockey, not the pussified version played today.
- powerenforcer

Obviously where Bowman needs to upgrade. The hardest for him is to get this type of player. A major trade, a significant free agent sign, or a draft choice (probability more that it is a first or second round) is where we fetch this power forward.

Bowman rearranged the deck but he did get the type style dman we need. If one of our non pro dmen (prospects: thinking more about Moberg long-term away or some collegiate guys) is able to move into an NHL job and actually plays a style similar or about the same as Zadorov, then maybe Zadorov could be dealt in a package deal for a top six bruiser.

I'm on board with a rebuild but not like this.

These 4 core deserve more respect. And they deserve to know the plan.

Never thought I'd say this but "Where's John McDonough when you need him?"

He was a hard-ass and pretty old school but he had the utmost respect for his players and the franchise he ran.
- Tyler Cameron

Respect? They get respect every time they cash their paychecks. I don't begrudge them for getting as much as they can but for crying out loud, Toews should spend less time b#tching about not being consulted in how management manages the team and more time looking in the mirror and acknowledging he's one of the main reason management couldn't provide better teammates to win more Cups.

Getting rid of McD was the best thing that could happen to remake the Hawks into a competitive team again. He was great at what he did - marketing, but that gravy train was going to end when the winning ended, which it did. He tried to keep it going at the expense of winning and I'm glad he's gone.

Yes, I'm on board with a rebuild and have been for a couple of years, and I definitely agree that the plan (IF there is one - I'm still suspect), should have been shared with the core guys.

Wish they'd taken the NYR approach to it, both with the fans and their remaining core.
- pdx2ord

No one really knows if it was or wasn’t shared with the core. My disdain for the “core” concept has been shared numerous times. Once a player shows he is not worth his contract, I believe it is time to move on. I am one of, if not THE, biggest Seabrook supporter here, and the day he signed that contract I was livid. Both in term and dollars that was a huge mistake.

Between the comments made “injecting youth” and the moves thus far, anyone thinking that Stan is making moves to be competitive next year is fooling themselves. This basically is the NYR model, without the full page ad in the paper (which I thought was corny). The next 2-3 years (assuming there is hockey played) will be “building from the bottom up” years and unless some miracle confluence of coaching, playing and goaltending comes together with all the young guys, it’s going to be hard to watch.

I have no idea if the return for Saad was good or not in this environment. On paper, my immediate reaction is that we got taken advantage of. That said, I have no idea what else was available. Buckle in for some lean hockey years folks (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

But regular beer/liquor sales are doing just fine, as is the Wirtz empire............
- vabeachbear

Maybe, I have no way of knowing what the COVID-19 impact is on their booze business.

Yes, I have my opinion, I stated it, and you and others clearly didn't like it. How the world works.

Yes, with COVID and the Cap, hard decisions have to be made. I'm not asking for magic, I'm just saying that we need to recognize these guys are human, no matter how much some may think their money should make them happy under any circumstances. I wish the FO had made their plan earlier, made it clearer to the fans and to the core, who I believe are owed some respect for what they brought to the team.

ETA: I find blaming 19 & 88 as individuals for the cap-strapped situation we are in ridiculous, so that idea sets me off every time. Who offered them that money?
- pdx2ord

It’s not blaming Kane and Toews, but I wouldn’t feel sorry for them either. They’ve been the faces of an enviable franchise, won multiple Stanley Cups and are multi-millionaires.

Turnover is part of the business in hockey and many other industries (including where I work). Truly successful organizations learn to embrace it and deal with it productively. We’ve all seen the need to a rebuild (to varying degrees), is it reasonable to think the players (like 2, 19 and 88) didn’t see this coming?

Many of you need to stop judging Bowman on individual moves. Does he net fair value for Saad? No, especially at 1million retained, he got worked if we just it by this move alone. BUT the cap space makes for a far more interesting play now of potentially taking on bad contracts for picks and prospects. Every cup contender has a bad contract or two that they need to shed to get a player that puts them over the top, if Stan can now play this angle then he wins the Saad trade from a holistic perspective.

Those bad contracts can also be dangled to expansion teams.

Finally, it’s only a matter of time before Murphy and DeHaan are also gone.

Look at the money/cap angle. Kane/ADB/Kubalik take up 25.4% of the cap now. With Saad still here it would have been about 33% in 4 players. Add Toews on to that and it becomes about 46% of the cap. Further, add Seabrook on top of that and whoa it becomes about 54% of the cap in 6 players.

Player for player the deal favours the Avs who are pretty close to a Stanley Cup team. Saad gets them closer. Bowman has to find a way to strengthen other areas of his roster. Whether he can do it or not is debatable. And who knows what Rocky is doing with the budget. He may be taking accounting classes from Professor Eugene Melnyk, who knows?
- RickJ

But when does he want to strengthen the roster? This yr or 2-3 yrs from now? Are they in a lets get into the playoffs and anything can happen mode or in a rebuild mode?

I had forgotten that only a week ago multiple credible sources had the Hawks trying to acquire Matt Murray. They went from being turned down for that trade to allowing Crow to walk to going with Subban, Lankinen and Delia in goal in a few days?

So in one week they went from wanting to compete to rebuilding/tanking? Can a rotation of Subban, Delia and Lankinen be anything other than a tank? .......

I'm confused like anyone else. IMO Lazerus put it best in the least amount of words. "That said, the Saad trade doesn’t really fit the rebuild idea. It just makes them worse and doesn’t exactly set them up to be better down the road."

Has the team picked a lane? If they have going by the Saad return is Stan capable of doing a rebuild?

The actual salary for next season is currently at $54M. I doubt Rocky would have a problem spending a little more, even in the pandemic era.
- tvetter

I bet not. I think we underestimate just how concerned with the state of the business owners are.

But regular beer/liquor sales are doing just fine, as is the Wirtz empire............
- vabeachbear

Oh, regular beer/liquor sales are probably at a record high during this pandemic, I can attest to that. But the hockey operations are a separate business for the Wirtz empire, they don’t want to supplement the hockey side from their other business(s). I’m a Rocky fan, and I don’t blame him for cost reductions if that is part of the strategy as well, which in my opinion it is part of the strategy.

The Stars re-signed Radek Faska for 5 years @ $3.25 AAV. I wonder if this has any impact on what Stan does with Strome.

Respect? They get respect every time they cash their paychecks. I don't begrudge them for getting as much as they can but for crying out loud, Toews should spend less time b#tching about not being consulted in how management manages the team and more time looking in the mirror and acknowledging he's one of the main reason management couldn't provide better teammates to win more Cups.

Getting rid of McD was the best thing that could happen to remake the Hawks into a competitive team again. He was great at what he did - marketing, but that gravy train was going to end when the winning ended, which it did. He tried to keep it going at the expense of winning and I'm glad he's gone.
- EbonyRaptor

Exactly right. Toews, Crow, Saad and the rest were given 5 years to make something happen. During that time, they cashed some big checks. Let me say it again: Toews was given 5 years to make something happen by ownership. Respect earned and given.

Time to move-on. And by the way, I’m not sure Toews is worth his contract any longer, either. Not any more than Saad was worth his. Might be time to move-on from Toews too, for the right package.

Oh, regular beer/liquor sales are probably at a record high during this pandemic, I can attest to that. But the hockey operations are a separate business for the Wirtz empire, they don’t want to supplement the hockey side from their other business(s). I’m a Rocky fan, and I don’t blame him for cost reductions if that is part of the strategy as well, which in my opinion it is part of the strategy.
- Angotti

Direct to consumer sales are definitely up, but business to business is way down. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but I’ve had several conversations with winemakers big and small (yup, I’m that pretentious) and their overall volume is down.

There is an opinion being expressed that the Saad and Maatta deals were more about saving Rocky actual dollars being paid out rather than any other reason. My opinion is that seems plausible, but so what? Rocky has proven in spades that he is not his father by spending to the max, and beyond. Given the current Covid induced economic reality, I'd be very surprised Rocky is the only owner doing likewise, especially those who own teams unlikely to win the Cup in 2021.

Even if that is true, there's more to the story. We all know it's been 5 years since the Hawks last won the Cup and 3 or 4 years since they were legitimate contenders. The strategy of trying to piecemeal a team around the old core hasn't worked and it was past time to move on and try something different. Whether or not this so-called "new direction" would have been undertaken without the economic downturn is mute because here we are.

Looking at this optimistically, reducing cash outlay and kick starting a new strategy would seem to work well together. When (if?) the economy gets back to normal, the Hawks should be closer to returning to contender status than they are right now.
- EbonyRaptor

Everyone has the same salary cap limitations. I have no doubt Rocky would have spent a lot more over the years if permitted. My comments on these trades are about managing the salary cap that we can blame Rocky's old man for.

Why is it obvious that Saad wouldn’t be resigned?

Given the league’s financial situation - given that apparently no other team was willing to offer more than a third-pairing defenseman for him today, implying that the market for him whenever next season ends would be depressed - isn’t it very possible that a new deal could be had for 5x5, or 6x5 or (5 or 6) x 3 or something similar?

He’s not going to get more than his current deal gives him in this (or next summer’s) market.

I’d resign him for that.

Just my opinion of the market for him, of course. I could be wrong.

And if they are making these moves to save cash - let them say that Rocky wants to spend less by becoming a budget team for the next couple of years.
- StLBravesFan

In my opinion it was obvious that they weren’t going to resign Saad, or they would have kept him. If we can resign him next year at 5x5, then I’m on board. I’m always on board for 200’ forwards, can’t win without them.

I’d still rather have Saad than a giant Russian.
- Ogilthorpe2

I'd rather have a crease clearing keep you head up type of D man than a mid IQ (and that's being kind) granite hands winger whose daddy only cares about money and is the main guy in his negotiating team. But if the powers that be neuter Zadorov like they have in the past to all the others then I agree with you all day long. Zadorov better bring it or he makes a complete ass out of SB. Anything Lindwhatever does anything it's gravy.

How many teams in the league do you think had legitimate interest in trading for Saad.
If we knew how many and who they were, we might be able to guess at what was being offered in return. Until yesterday, had to figure Montreal would have been very interested. How about Buffalo or NJ or Detroit? Maybe Pittsburgh for a hometown kid?
- RickJ

And Saad had some say in who he was traded to (or not traded too).

The Hawks have money to spend. Even including Seabs, Smith and Shaw, and giving Strome 2.5, we have $5M available. We could easily take on a bad contract. MAF ($2M retained) ++ for Subban or Delia? Tyler Johnson (nothing retained) ++ for Reece Johnson. Take Hossa's contract back from AZ plus Hayton for next year's 2nd?
Ok I'll stop doing my Scott1977 impression now. 😆 🤣 😂
- tvetter

Thanks hitting below the belt there funny

Direct to consumer sales are definitely up, but business to business is way down. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but I’ve had several conversations with winemakers big and small (yup, I’m that pretentious) and their overall volume is down.
- Chunk

That makes a lot of sense, people are not going out as much, so businesses do not have the demand, but people like my wife and I are purchasing and consuming alcohol more than normal at home. Much more Netflix binging and beer/wine consumption, that’s the reality of this crap pandemic, have to make the best of it. Keep staying safe out there Blackhawk fans, this too shall pass.