I was told yesterday that Saad was worth a first round pick plus more.
- GPHawksfan

Zadorov was a 1st round pick.

"And Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook aren’t happy about the Crow dismissal and the Saad trade.


Re: Toew's sadness, their macdnesbsm boofreakinghoo, at ten million a year, just do your job.

If not, they all can tell their stories walking.
I will perfectly understand they want to win, just like the long line of GREAT NHL player who have NEVER won....

No one is forcing their hand, just dealing with the reality of a salary cap, no beer and seats sales during a pandemic, and an older core.

And you know what this sounds like an article to stir the pot, too.

Then the market would reflect that and Stan should be able to negotiate a contract at $4 or $5 MM.

Stan does not seem able to negotiate well - look at the “core” contracts he signed, many think AdB’s contract is too high, I think Kubalik (at one season in) won the negotiations, Panarin, Lehner, Crawford, Saad (twice) moved very early in the negotiation process - did any real negotiations go on, or did Stan just give up and take the easy way out?

The market determines value, artificially hindered the the hard cap, but still true within it. If all Stan could get for Saad was a third pairing defenseman (plus cash savings for the family), then the market is implying that Saad won’t match his current contract next time out.
- StLBravesFan

Your assuming Stan wants(ed) To keep Saad. Maybe Stan thinks spending the money on other players will improve the team more? Certainly not working with him being a “core” member of the team.

Bolded - that absolutely did not happen......
- CaptainBlackhawk

Wrong words. He rebuilt a depleted roster although many core players were still in stock. If you want to say he for most part just replaced secondary usage players, ok. When I said depleted roster I could have provided an explanation exactly what I inferred

It smells a lot like Stan has been told to cut cost. The end result could be we have a lot of cap space in 2-3 years.
- rpeters01

You may have hit the nail.

Rocky has been overly generous to spend and spend trying to continual. fill rosters to keep chgallenging...maybe he is taking a step back until the three is room to add youngsters and payt them.

"And Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook aren’t happy about the Crow dismissal and the Saad trade.


Re: Toew's sadness, their macdnesbsm boofreakinghoo, at ten million a year, just do your job.

If not, they all can tell their stories walking.
I will perfectly understand they want to win, just like the long line of GREAT NHL player who have NEVER won....

No one is forcing their hand, just dealing with the reality of a salary cap, no beer and seats sales during a pandemic, and an older core.

And you know what this sounds like an article to stir the pot, too.
- wiz1901

Stir the pot, indeed. Good headline and sells papers too.

Zadorov was a 1st round pick.
- boilermaker100

Good for him. So was Ryan Hartman.

By who? If it wasn't one of the 30 other GM's then if means (frank) all.
- 6628

My post. I said I thought they should trade him at the deadline and could potentially get a first, plus.

Maybe, maybe not, but given the circumstances aren't exactly the same as he was traded before the season and not at the TDL, it's a bit of a moot point.

I know we're a couple years removed from it but if Ryan Hartman brought back a prospect and a 1st rounder, is it that unreasonable to think Saad might have?

And - following the trade out - is a third-pairing defenseman with perhaps good defensive skills (if he’s protected) and apparently few offensive capabilities - worth $3.2MM in today’s (or any) market?
- StLBravesFan

How much is Murphy getting paid? Not that he's 3rd pairing but he also doesn't bring much offense.

My post. I said I thought they should trade him at the deadline and could potentially get a first, plus.

Maybe, maybe not, but given the circumstances aren't exactly the same as he was traded before the season and not at the TDL, it's a bit of a moot point.

I know we're a couple years removed from it but if Ryan Hartman brought back a prospect and a 1st rounder, is it that unreasonable to think Saad might have?
- HawkintheD

It depends. That was TDL vs offseason, and this is a completely new economy. I’m not defending the trade, but it’s not really apples to apples.

But when does he want to strengthen the roster? This yr or 2-3 yrs from now? Are they in a lets get into the playoffs and anything can happen mode or in a rebuild mode?

I had forgotten that only a week ago multiple credible sources had the Hawks trying to acquire Matt Murray. They went from being turned down for that trade to allowing Crow to walk to going with Subban, Lankinen and Delia in goal in a few days?

So in one week they went from wanting to compete to rebuilding/tanking? Can a rotation of Subban, Delia and Lankinen be anything other than a tank? .......

I'm confused like anyone else. IMO Lazerus put it best in the least amount of words. "That said, the Saad trade doesn’t really fit the rebuild idea. It just makes them worse and doesn’t exactly set them up to be better down the road."

Has the team picked a lane? If they have going by the Saad return is Stan capable of doing a rebuild?
- Mr Ricochet

You know what I think the deal with Matt Murray was - Bowman phoned Rutherford and asked him what he wanted in exchange for Murray. Asking price was probably acceptable so he then asked if they could talk to the player's agent. Half a minute into the conversation with the agent laying out the how many $ and years they were looking for the line went dead. That's the extent to which the Hawks tried to 'acquire' Matt Murray.

And no, I don't think Stan is the guy to do a rebuild.

You know what I think the deal with Matt Murray was - Bowman phoned Rutherford and asked him what he wanted in exchange for Murray. Asking price was probably acceptable so he then asked if they could talk to the player's agent. Half a minute into the conversation with the agent laying out the how many $ and years they were looking for the line went dead. That's the extent to which the Hawks tried to 'acquire' Matt Murray.

And no, I don't think Stan is the guy to do a rebuild.
- RickJ

The winder kid Jon Chayka is available boy did he leave a mess. I bet Rocky still has Dale’s cell number. I bet Q will be available before the year is out.

From the Athletic
“Yeah, their job is to play hockey, not so much to manage a team,” Bowman said back in February. “I don’t think that’s really fair to them to kind of bring them into the decision-making process. They’ve earned the respect based on what they’ve accomplished, but on a day-to-day basis, just like I don’t go down there and talk to them about their shift last night in overtime — the coaches do that. I think they have their job to do and I have my job to do.”


StanBo has more balls than I ever envisioned him as having...and he is totally. correct.

The players loved Lehner, that is O.K.
But the idea for the preseason deals before this last season, was to make sure they could challenge having a veteran goalie if Crawford went drunken snowmobiling and getting a concussion, and the getting on eon the ice and aagin, etc.
They patched the defense with Ollie and Dehaan not for the future but for this current season, and w/o the gift of the Bettman play-in and it was a failure.
But for once, when the Hawks said,"We tried." the really DID.

Now there can't be outside bolsters and w/o them their scoring and young defense wasn't gonna be the best situation for all involved.

So we are here.

If I EVER was afforded a salary like theirs I would try and button up before sounding through an anxious sportswriter that I am a dissident...espeically if he is a=n Athletic write who is far from a hockey expert, just a repeater/writer.

(Boy, don't I sound angry!)

I am not I like the fact we actually are going to continue to see changes...the trades you all want to get those extra picks will be ones that come when BETTER players depart.

Remember way, back before anybody said it, I talked about the how the 2020 Draft so DEEP in the top three round of fourth tier projectable?
This last draft's strength was wingers in the first half of the first round.

Remember, now you read this hear not by a guy on the Athletic or Craig button, or anyone else...The 2021 is yet another strong draft and with what maybe a thicker first round, because beside the big defenders, there is glut of big sized centres, that aren't gonna end up on the wing like so many of this last draft's will.

And as far a really strong goalie prospects, Swedish netminder Jesper Wallstaedt is a first rounder Aku Koskenvuo suddenly has Edmonton Oil Kings Sebastian Cossa, Saginaw Tristen Lennox, all big goalers.
I dont the Hawks will fool themselves into assessing future successes for anyone of their three IF it really isn't obvious, they willl dip right into the 2021 draft to strengthen themselves more.

I am gonna start by saying RIGHT NOWI see 17 nice top prospect ts who will fill the top 17.
That means the low in standings playoff teams will getvto improve too.
And while I am redundant to strep further off the plank but I see plenty excellent prospects ts last that so when they do get extra picks (for players that are truly worth a first round return) the are going to get adequate chances to continue the re-build.

I saw one of the Athletic draft guys place up a 2021 that was incredibly heavy on "GREAT DEFENSEMAN PROSPECTS.
I see two impact defenders in the 6' 4' -5" Owen Power & Simon Edvinsson and FOUR others that are in my top 17 or so....but there is lost like in the plethora of nice centre prospects and the two LW Brennan Othmann and Zachary L'Heureux, but the guy the blazing right winger Dylan Guether also in Edmonton is winger theist non-forward to me.I haven't mention USA Matt Beniers, Kent Johnson, Zach Bolduc, Cole Sillinger, and Aatu Räty, who I playfully backed into a spot with the Chicago insignia in front of it...
I think Räty is the only I have played a profile in on DraftSite.
So the work starts again for me.

You know what I think the deal with Matt Murray was - Bowman phoned Rutherford and asked him what he wanted in exchange for Murray. Asking price was probably acceptable so he then asked if they could talk to the player's agent. Half a minute into the conversation with the agent laying out the how many $ and years they were looking for the line went dead. That's the extent to which the Hawks tried to 'acquire' Matt Murray. .
- RickJ

It was Pittsburgh native Saad.
That's what got them the permission.

I am not speculating...
and after MURRAY was an unsuccessful get as a younger 'tender, they decided to sue the money elsewhere with a promotion from within.

Canucks looking for RD after Tanev and Stecher leaving. Murphy to the Canucks? Maybe Stan can get Tyler Motte back.

It was Pittsburgh native Saad.
That's what got them the permission.

I am not speculating...
and after MURRAY was an unsuccessful get as a younger 'tender, they decided to sue the money elsewhere with a promotion from within.
- wiz1901

Good stuff Wiz.

"And Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook aren’t happy about the Crow dismissal and the Saad trade.


Re: Toew's sadness, their macdnesbsm boofreakinghoo, at ten million a year, just do your job.

If not, they all can tell their stories walking.
I will perfectly understand they want to win, just like the long line of GREAT NHL player who have NEVER won....

No one is forcing their hand, just dealing with the reality of a salary cap, no beer and seats sales during a pandemic, and an older core.

And you know what this sounds like an article to stir the pot, too.
- wiz1901

Thank you. I just laughed when I saw that story. Play hockey 19. Enjoy your 10 million dollars to play a game.

Canucks looking for RD after Tanev and Stecher leaving. Murphy to the Canucks? Maybe Stan can get Tyler Motte back.
- boilermaker100

Tell you what. Motte was very noticeable in the playoffs. Solid 2 way guy who can play the PK. I think Motte just signed a new contact. That being said, Connor was the only D that played with an edge. Would prefer to keep him. Makes a good PK pair with the BIG Z!!!

You and many others had an unrealistic expected return for a 20 goal 40 point inconsistent winger
- GPHawksfan

They did not get as much as I expected, you are correct there, but they did get a proven NHL Dman that clears the front of the net. We’ll see what else they have up their sleeve.

"And Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook aren’t happy about the Crow dismissal and the Saad trade.


Re: Toew's sadness, their macdnesbsm boofreakinghoo, at ten million a year, just do your job.

If not, they all can tell their stories walking.
I will perfectly understand they want to win, just like the long line of GREAT NHL player who have NEVER won....

No one is forcing their hand, just dealing with the reality of a salary cap, no beer and seats sales during a pandemic, and an older core.

And you know what this sounds like an article to stir the pot, too.
- wiz1901

I think it's less about the core's feelings but about the reputation of the team. The Hawks have always been a highly rated organization with players but they've taken some hard hits over the years starting with ousting Q, a well-liked coach, and now upsetting core that won them a lot of cups. Even though all the moves are necessary - it is time to start rebuilding, possibly past time - it's not great to have those star players speaking out against the org.

A simple heads up to Toews, Keith, and Kane right before they make the announcement about Crawford likely prevents these types of interviews and heads off any pot stirring from the press. That's it. It's not required, it's definitely a courtesy but also one that makes good business sense if only to keep the employees quiet and reputation intact.

Yes, I have my opinion, I stated it, and you and others clearly didn't like it. How the world works.

Yes, with COVID and the Cap, hard decisions have to be made. I'm not asking for magic, I'm just saying that we need to recognize these guys are human, no matter how much some may think their money should make them happy under any circumstances. I wish the FO had made their plan earlier, made it clearer to the fans and to the core, who I believe are owed some respect for what they brought to the team.

ETA: I find blaming 19 & 88 as individuals for the cap-strapped situation we are in ridiculous, so that idea sets me off every time. Who offered them that money?
- pdx2ord

I know many on these boards aren't going to like this perspective but there is something to be said about the concept of change management.

All organizations change whether because of natural evolution or abrupt shocks to the system such as the pandemic, depressions, etc.

Part of change management is making sure all stakeholders are aware of the changes. They don't have to agree with them but at least need to know that changes are being made and what the plan is.

Another angle is shared governance. Some organizations have avenues for stakeholders to participate in decision making to some degree or other.

Outside of the negotiated impacts of player unions, sports teams don't have shared governance so this is where I don't think it matters really what the players ultimately think. But they at least deserve to know.

Has the Blackhawks management done that with the players or even the coaches? Maybe, maybe not.

Just saying that good organizations open up channels to communicate changes or else dysfunction and disenfranchisement can occur.

It appears fans (and player agents) underestimate the business climate and ownership’s pain, discomfort, uneasiness or whatever about the health of the business going forward. It’s the only explanation,?I guess.
- Aurora Hawk

There's definitely the fact that fans may not completely understanding the impact of pandemic on league and team finances. We each have our individual graps of the subject matter but only the NHL and franchises know the full effect on how they make decisions today and for the future.

A buyout is worst case. To finish that thought, a buyout would have subtracted a little over $4 mill this season, but then they have to add x amount back in that roster spot. If it's a prospect, it's somewhere over $3 mill in cap savings for the upcoming season. Then they have a hit for over $2 mill for next year. Just to compare it to this trade that results in a $1.8 mill cap savings this year, and a clean slate the following season.
- 333inthe3rd

Good point about looking at trades beyond this coming season and see how they impact the team in the longer term.

You know what I think the deal with Matt Murray was - Bowman phoned Rutherford and asked him what he wanted in exchange for Murray. Asking price was probably acceptable so he then asked if they could talk to the player's agent. Half a minute into the conversation with the agent laying out the how many $ and years they were looking for the line went dead. That's the extent to which the Hawks tried to 'acquire' Matt Murray.

And no, I don't think Stan is the guy to do a rebuild.
- RickJ

I agree with you stan imo isn't the guy to entrust to rebuild this team. Everyone praises stan for his ability to manage the cap and chicago going on to win 3 cups . OK great but the reality was chicago depth both in Rockford and on the team was so young and deep . His core group of players were all under 25 and all he did was bring in a few mediocre guys handzus, Richard's, Vermette

None of those guys lasted more than a season. . He traded off to many young prospects or future promising players because of his own. Mistakes with contracts , bickell. Seabrook and imo toews and kanes 10.5 million each made them the 2 highest paid players.
We can argue about why they deserved that salary but strictly from a business model it was one of those deals that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy but as time goes on you realize it was awful in a couple of ways your locked in due to the structure and your constantly trading off quality and assets just to fill out a roster.


I have nothing against toews , keith or kane I thank them for the wonderful years of championship hockey , but at 31 years and older its time to move on as a hawks fan and root for a fast and great rebuild to enjoy great hockey again.

Assuming that there are no more trades involving defense personnel (I hope there are), we are left with what I would term five "experienced" dmen (Keith, Murphy, DeHaan, Seabrook, and Zadorov) and potentially five "inexperienced" dmen (Boqvist, Mitchell, Carlsson, Beaudin, and Kalynuk). Let the five inexperienced guys battle in out in camp, and keep the top three, sending the fourth back to Rockford. Now we have eight defensemen, and I would make four pairings. For example:

Keith-Murphy
DeHaan-Mitchell
Zadorov-Boqvist
Carlsson-Seabrook

(In this example, Kalynuk and Beaudin go back to Rockford, but it could be anyone.

(These pairing may be way out in left field, but some pairings where each inexperienced dman is paired with an experienced dman.)

Three pairings suit up for each game, and one pairing sits. I would rotate the four pairings equally (every dman on the roster plays three of every four games). Would the players, especially the vets, like this? Probably not, but we are in rebuild mode, right? On each pairings "off game", the experienced dman coaches the inexperienced dman in techniques and strategies of the game as they watch together. It becomes somewhat of a mentoring program that the experienced dmen would have to buy in on. In my example, when the "all experienced" pairing of Keith-Murphy has their "off game", they are scouting all of the dmen, expecially the inexperienced dmen, to provide instruction to them. This also takes a little bit of wear and tear off of our older, injury prone guys, as well as our young guys who have not yet developed their bodies into fully "NHL ready" bodies.

Is this a stupid idea, or an idea that the coaches could not get buy in on? I readily admit I do not have a great degree of hockey knowledge, but it seems to me, if we are not consumed with doing everything we can to win every game, and are rather consumed with development of the "new wave" of players that will take us to the top again, it makes sense to me.
- rackman89

Not a bad idea at all especially if the regular season schedule will be compact. Players are going to need time to rest.

There's also not knowing the status of the AHL. If they end up not playing or having some grossly modified season, then that might lead to expanded NHL rosters.

With that in mind, your idea or some variation of it may be realistic to at least consider.