Maybe Bowman gave them too much credit for being smart enough to see what the (frank) is going on.

I know many on these boards aren't going to like this perspective but there is something to be said about the concept of change management.

All organizations change whether because of natural evolution or abrupt shocks to the system such as the pandemic, depressions, etc.

Part of change management is making sure all stakeholders are aware of the changes. They don't have to agree with them but at least need to know that changes are being made and what the plan is.

Another angle is shared governance. Some organizations have avenues for stakeholders to participate in decision making to some degree or other.

Outside of the negotiated impacts of player unions, sports teams don't have shared governance so this is where I don't think it matters really what the players ultimately think. But they at least deserve to know.

Has the Blackhawks management done that with the players or even the coaches? Maybe, maybe not.

Just saying that good organizations open up channels to communicate changes or else dysfunction and disenfranchisement can occur.
- Theo Fox

Thank you, Theo. Warm's this girl's professional heart. Feel like I am making this kind of plea weekly at work.

Lidstrom did have Holland's ear. He didn't make personnel decisions, but he did get to offer his opinion on the direction the team should go.
- 333inthe3rd

In a recent interview after rejoining the Hogs, Cody Franson said the same thing that the Rockford coaching staff entrusted him to regularly sit in their meetings to plan out game strategies and such. They liked what he had to share.

This trust that the Hogs coaching staff had in him in his last tour of duty was a major reason why he decided to sign an AHL deal to be a veteran leader for the Hogs.

You can time it so that Toews know before Lazarus.
- StLBravesFan

If Stan's been given a budget edict he's not telling anyone anything.

We have an opening for that job.
- rpeters01

I think the plan if for Dach to take over some PK time. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have Nordstrom than Carpenter.

It’s also just a matter of simple respect - for your co-workers (in this case, players, coaches) and clients-customers (the fans). I think you give out as much information as you can without compromising the plan or giving away secret details.

As an aside - I wonder how much they informed Colliton about these moves - remember Quenneville and the Hjalmarsson deal?
- StLBravesFan

Agreed. I'm not that worried about the ~feelings of the players but I do think there is a level of respect that they should be dealt along with fans. I just don't really understand why the FO wouldn't have gotten in front of this if only in terms of PR.

And this lack of foresight is likely going to have a negative impact - both because the players could exert their power and because now the whole league knows the Hawks situation is even more dire than maybe initially expected.

The core have absolute control over their own fates thanks to their NMCs. If they want, they can Richard the organization around to prevent them from getting much valuable in trades (see: Skinner). And other GM now know those players are unhappy and the Hawks might need to unload them, further driving down the Hawks’ negotiating power (see: Hoffman). If you can’t get good assets for the core or any other vets, the ebuild is going to be slowed down significantly which in tern puts dampeners on the current young players (esp guys like Kubalik who is already 25).

Maybe Bowman gave them too much credit for being smart enough to see what the (frank) is going on.
- Elbows15

If Toews et al ever read HB, they would know Saad was being shopped for about 2 years.

Looking for a top for left hand D in return.
- walleyeb1

For Roslovic? We have a couple for them. de Haan, Keith and Zadorov

Maybe Bowman gave them too much credit for being smart enough to see what the (frank) is going on.
- Elbows15

If Bowman and the org was explicitly telling them one thing and then suddenly doing another, it's really more about them being too trusting.

Thank you, Theo. Warm's this girl's professional heart. Feel like I am making this kind of plea weekly at work.
- pdx2ord

You bet! I'm living this organizational scenario right now at my workplace and it's a living nightmare sometimes when communication does not occur.

Hang in there at your workplace. Same to others, too.

Agreed. I'm not that worried about the ~feelings of the players but I do think there is a level of respect that they should be dealt along with fans. I just don't really understand why the FO wouldn't have gotten in front of this if only in terms of PR.

And this lack of foresight is likely going to have a negative impact - both because the players could exert their power and because now the whole league knows the Hawks situation is even more dire than maybe initially expected.

The core have absolute control over their own fates thanks to their NMCs. If they want, they can Richard the organization around to prevent them from getting much valuable in trades (see: Skinner). And other GM now know those players are unhappy and the Hawks might need to unload them, further driving down the Hawks’ negotiating power (see: Hoffman). If you can’t get good assets for the core or any other vets, the ebuild is going to be slowed down significantly which in tern puts dampeners on the current young players (esp guys like Kubalik who is already 25).
- L_B_R

MEh. The contracts and ages of the NMC players pretty much drives down their value. All the good will the Hawks have worked so hard to repair may take a bit of a hit but the reality is players want to make money and play for a winning team. The Hawks have the money but won't be a winning team for awhile.

I see it as much ado about nothing in the long term.

He's actually fine on the PK in the role he's played as #4 d-man. His defensive impact at 5v5 is a bigger issue - he's generally good as a bottom pairing d-man but not when he was played in the top 4.

He is also a black hole in offense and tends to drag others down with him. I know some think maybe he'd be good with Boqvist or another more offensive minded d-man but I'd be hesitant because he's been more of an anchor for the Avs d-men than not. But then, Koekkoek was better with Maatta than anyone else who the (frank) thought that on paper would be good?
- L_B_R

Not that I wanna change anyone's mind but Saad's fancies his whole career have been excellent by most any measure and he passes the eye test if you aren't expecting 60-65 points. Corsi, HDCF, HDCA, xGF and on and on are on the plus side. The kid can not not play an honest 200 ft game whether it's because it's in his DNA or his first coaches at 5yrs old drove that into him.

He's a perfect 3rd liner. He can play a shutdown responsible game and has 50 pt skills with +++ speed with good size and can reasonably slot up when needed. Problem is at 6 mil per, even prepandemic, is too much for that slotting.

These kinds are valuable. As we see the market can and does change from yr to yr but his skills and versatality should bring more than what he did. If anything Stan's timing was poor.

The core contracts were signed in a different environment with wildly different expectations of cap growth than what transpired. (The cap growth did not meet expectations)

The core players can be asked to reconsider their NMCs. Or ask to be moved.

We will see how this develops as time passes.

I am one of those that would disagree, to an extent.

Do most of you who think this way, think that other GMs around the league are phoning the highest paid players to tell them about trades they are contemplating or about to go down???

Maybe I'm just naïve, but don't think that is happening, not in the NHL, not in the NFL. You think Theo calls and lets Rizzo, Baez, or Bryant know what they are doing?

Maybe NBA but who watches any of that anymore.

Again, maybe I wrong, just don't see it. I'm mid to upper level in my company, and I can tell you, no one calls to let me know what they decisions they are making.
- vabeachbear

Wouldn't say it is likely on most teams. But, from reports, it seems that LeMieux and Crosby have an open line of communication, Eichel in Buffalo, Matthews in Toronto, etc. Those guys have seemed, at least, to influence FO decisions behind-the-scenes or with their public airings of grief. I'd put 19 & 88 on par with those guys, if not above the latter two, in terms of their import to the team, in the locker room, on the ice, and to the fan base.

This seems to me like a completely new vision for the Hawks's future (even if we all knew and acknowledged it was a wise move, and probably a bit late). When companies drastically change direction/strategy, they don't necessarily consult with the personnel, but they definitely make it public, usually with a lot of rah-rah'ing. In this case, I think that's all many of us were saying: the core don't necessarily get a say, but a heads up that "this is where the franchise is going, now" would have been a sign of respect for what they'd brought the team AND a great way to get them thinking about "do I stay or do I go?" Hawks could even have done it a la the NYR to the full team or fan base rather than just the core guys. Now, they're just disgruntled.

If Bowman and the org was explicitly telling them one thing and then suddenly doing another, it's really more about them being too trusting.
- L_B_R

My interpretation is the organization wasn't telling them anything. After the asskicking they took from the Preds wasn't enough to make them realize where this was heading, the stomping from Vegas should have confirmed it.

MEh. The contracts and ages of the NMC players pretty much drives down their value. All the good will the Hawks have worked so hard to repair may take a bit of a hit but the reality is players want to make money and play for a winning team. The Hawks have the money but won't be a winning team for awhile.

I see it as much ado about nothing in the long term.
- Elbows15

Sure but what value they do have is further deteriorating with this situation imo.

My interpretation is the organization wasn't telling them anything. After the asskicking they took from the Preds wasn't enough to make them realize where this was heading, the stomping from Vegas should have confirmed it.
- Elbows15

That goes against both the players and FO saying they do exit interviews and such with the players to go over plans. After Q was fired, there were reports that the FO checked in with the core about their plans and potential thoughts on moving them if they wanted.

My interpretation of all that is that at least in the past, they've given general updates to the players. Not full "we're trading Hjammer" but a heads up about general plans of competitive vs rebuild.

That and other than their one Cup appearance since '95, where they essentially earned the right to lose to the Hawks or the Kings, they're still sitting on like two Cup wins in the last 70 years.

They look like they'll be an exciting team but Tampa Bay's a pretty good reminder of how hard it is to actually win.
- HawkintheD

Agreed, and Tampa has been grinding it out since they lost to us in 2015. They finally win the Cup even without Stamkos for the most part. What a difference these last 5 years have been. Stevie Y built the bulk of this Cup team.They continue to improve and we continue to decline. Poor Management !!

Stan might just run this thing into the ground after all, as many of you have said for years now.
Hopefully he's on the clock along with the Core.

According to the rumour mill the Jets are on the verge of moving Jack Roslovic. He’s the type of young forward Stan should target.
- DarthKane

Yes, yes and yes. Top 6 upside, middle 6 floor, 23 yrs old, good size, RFA. Yes, these kinds......... My guess is the Jets want an NHL Dman in return but this is the kinda guy the Hawks trade Saad for and retain 3-4-5 million.

DeHaan for Roslovic and the Hawks retain a few million. Couple moves like that, the Hawks develop 3-4-5-6 of their own players with plenty of cap space versatilality in 2-3 yrs they are back in the game.

Sure but what value they do have is further deteriorating with this situation imo.
- L_B_R

My opinion is the financial situation of the league currently has more of an affect on their value.

to move either Toews or Kane a few things would have to happen. Retaining salary. Taking back one or more really bad contracts with term, the players have to agree to the deal and the return would have to be at least perceptively better than letting either play out their contracts. Some of those conditions are going to be hard to find.

Keith is just old and what value does he really have at this point to another team? I have no idea.

Seabrook is just plain unmoveable unless the Hawks are willing to give away assets. Which they should not be doing.

Meanwhile...is it me or has the rest of our division/conference gotten better this offseason?

@jprutherford

Hearing a deal between Alex Pietrangelo and Vegas could be getting close. A decision/announcement may come as soon as tonight.

Agreed. I'm not that worried about the ~feelings of the players but I do think there is a level of respect that they should be dealt along with fans. I just don't really understand why the FO wouldn't have gotten in front of this if only in terms of PR.

And this lack of foresight is likely going to have a negative impact - both because the players could exert their power and because now the whole league knows the Hawks situation is even more dire than maybe initially expected.

The core have absolute control over their own fates thanks to their NMCs. If they want, they can Richard the organization around to prevent them from getting much valuable in trades (see: Skinner). And other GM now know those players are unhappy and the Hawks might need to unload them, further driving down the Hawks’ negotiating power (see: Hoffman). If you can’t get good assets for the core or any other vets, the ebuild is going to be slowed down significantly which in tern puts dampeners on the current young players (esp guys like Kubalik who is already 25).
- L_B_R

Geez Stan is the Grinch. How about St Louis trading for and signing Falk for more money thanPetro was making, then they sign Krug for what Petro would of signed for, what Vegas is doing to MAF the face of the franchise, etc. How about when the Dallas owner called out Ben and Seguin saying they are not earning their salary. aEichel is unhappy in Buffalo, how about Kane for Eichel.

Yes, yes and yes. Top 6 upside, middle 6 floor, 23 yrs old, good size, RFA. Yes, these kinds......... My guess is the Jets want an NHL Dman in return but this is the kinda guy the Hawks trade Saad for and retain 3-4-5 million.

DeHaan for Roslovic and the Hawks retain a few million. Couple moves like that, the Hawks develop 3-4-5-6 of their own players with plenty of cap space versatilality in 2-3 yrs they are back in the game.
- Mr Ricochet

Supposedly Nate Schmitt for Roslovic. Hawks don ‘t have a Nate Schmitt

That goes against both the players and FO saying they do exit interviews and such with the players to go over plans. After Q was fired, there were reports that the FO checked in with the core about their plans and potential thoughts on moving them if they wanted.

My interpretation of all that is that at least in the past, they've given general updates to the players. Not full "we're trading Hjammer" but a heads up about general plans of competitive vs rebuild.
- L_B_R

Maybe, but the situation isn't beyond repair.

Do you think Stan lost the core the last week or this is just the cherry on top? ...... One thing the core can say is Stan treated them like his children and as HOFers when it came to paying them and giving them term.

If he'd have taken the Stevie Y way of doing things the core would not have the money and term they have but would probably still be real contenders for the cup.

Because Stan over-took care of the core he's now in a position as a desperate cornered dog.
- Mr Ricochet

Oh I see little children weren't told asap about trades so they are going to pout. OF COURSE AS GROWN UP PEOPLE THEY AUTOMATICALLY WILL HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM. Because Toews was quoted about the situation. This means the walls are tumbling down. Good grief all three core guys are going to get traded. The core guys might even draw graffiti of Stan then Bowman gets fired. Oh pray what other crazy talk. I bet this all is taken care of. If they do have an attitude once the season starts, I could care less about who they are and what they have meant. Tomorrow comes and we finally need to rebuild. Not on the fly the way it had been done

Now maybe Stan is not the best choice to be GM. But too many people do not decipher the latest trade well. Shallow thinking or just didn't think of all the angles

Let me spell it out. Saad is a luxury to afford at his third and sometimes second line slot. He could very well be left unprotected for The Expansion Draft. Saad would be attractive for an expansion team that has few big salaries. Or conversely Saad could be moved by them for a nice return. Some teams have a spot for him

Meanwhile we get whipped badly in compete and toughness if Stan doesn't address toughness. The next round in the playoffs this season would have been analogous to the Nashville pasting a few years ago

Now Stan has a third pair toughness. Yes, Zadorov and Carlsson might have to suffice in the toughness as in whom will have credit for hits in the boxscore. You see there is a strong possibility eventually Murphy is moved. He provides toughness. But he emerged as a pretty darn descent dman and is at mid career. An experienced affordable Murphy would garner a nice return

Bowman has a tough time adding toughness to top two pair on defense. You know the type teams he likes. The fast skilled old Detroit Red Wing model. Bowman hopes later round drafts or lower line finds in trades will suffice for toughness. He got by when Sharpie stepped up and Bickel rose to the challenge. He got by in part because we were the experienced team and core players were very good when we beat Tampa for the Cup

Now or i should say since that Cup win we have seen how rough and tumble playoff hockey has become. It always was but you see our teams last few years could never compete in playoffs. We got lucky facing Edm with their limitations.

Clearly we need a tough guy who will play the boards, to insert on one of our top two lines. Could actually really appreciate two of this type. From where do they arrive. It isn't a present from the stork dropping in. Probably a first round choice in 2021 and or a trade/free agent

Next season I expect some line three toughness imported through another Bowman transaction. Probably some hustle speedy Rockford guys whom part way replace what Saad did

Whomever we have may actually receive some playing time on top two lines. I know this: Toews cannot play the way he used to but in spurts. He has been almost terrible early parts of last couple seasons. Meanwhile Kane waste away without proper linemattes. And somehow some way someone needs to lay down the law on power play. Do Kane and Keith have final call over the coach on pp strategy. Because for years no man in front of net too often plus Kane dictating pp has been a real eye sore.

Bowman may not be the best choice now but he is whom is calling the shots. Colliton is here and unless we are really bad, he isn't leaving. Yes maybe there is better ways to communicate if there is a bigger tear down enacted. If Bowman or whomever do not soothe over the players and said complaining continues, companies inbusiness world sooner or later cut ties.. It is a business decision and I would back it. Even if it means we look pathetic on the ice. The owner and GM run the team for better or worse. If a player keeps whining, dump him. If i were his teammate, I'd tell him privately to appreciate your darn good income and suck it up