You think they'd take that discount to play in Pittsburgh over other suitors? History proves otherwise

Toffoli takes 4.25 to play in Montreal could be 5 million to play in Pittsburgh, because he probably has a 4.75 offer to play on his next choice
- TheGame316

Thats not what I'm saying/thinking at all. I'm saying every single player has taken a discount, no matter the destination, this off season.

I dont follow your second sentence.

Hornqvist had a really bad contract, but is also the embodiment of what GM's overvalue and was still producing. I thought the NTC would be the thing that made him untraceable, but obviously that wasn't a sticking point given that all we had to do to get him to waive it was hurt his feelings (/s). Do I think we could have dumped him for a ton of cap space? No. But also given Rutherford's track record of fixating on players and his comments on Matheson, I do think there is a good possibility that he fixated on the idea of having that damn 5D that makes second pairing money that can jump up with injuries that he so loves, and I think he probably targeted Matheson specifically for that. Maybe there was a trade that netted us back more cap space, but that's neither here nor there anymore. So to your other points:

C) No hindsight about this one. We literally talked about this extensively in the lead up to free agency and we all pretty much called it due to the flat cap. This wasn't an excuse this year.

D) Yes. And because of previous moves/blunders we made, we pretty much had to do it. Its unfortunate, but this is also not a valid excuse given that the reason we are in the situation that we are is because Rutherford has gassed assets getting rid of bad contracts.

I think the poop thing about the Hornqvist situation is that even with taking Matheson back, in theory, it shouldn't be overly difficult to replace a third line winger that's slowing down, and we had enough cap space to do so after buying Johnson out. And we didn't. So we basically just traded Hornqvist to trade him, which was maybe not the worst move, but then we made it into a really bad move by not actually replacing his production.
- Victoro311

Everyone thought Jim Benning was an idiot for not trading for OEL, then letting Chris Tanev walk and their D was screwed UNTIL out of nowhere he used the capspace he had to trade a 3rd for Nate Schmidt, so I'm going to reserve judgment until every dollar is spent

I still think we are better off with Mathesons potential and the potential of a mobile 3rd pairing over a slow, oft injured Hornqvist choking out the 3rd line

If a guy like Hoffman is signed to 2 year 8 Million and some other move is made to free up some cap GMJR is going to look like a genius

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying every single player has taken a discount, no matter the destination, this off season.

I dont follow your second sentence.
- MattStrat

OK, you're Tyler Toffoli

Hey Tyler, It's The Flyers, we'd like to offer you 4.75 Million per year, you say "I'll think about it"

Hey Tyler, It's the Kings, we'll offer you 4.5 Million but I'm warning you, we're rebuilding but you're from here so you're at least interested

Hey Tyler, It's the Habs, I'll offer you 4.25 Million for 4 years, whaddya say? (Maybe it's been you're dream to play for Montreal? who knows)

Hey Tyler, Its GMJR, Can I have you at the lowest possible price? What's it going to take to get you to Pittsburgh?

I'm saying a player, like Toffoli, wouldn't necessarily choose Pittsburgh over the Habs at 4.25 Million, or Pittsburgh over Los Angeles at 4.5 Million, or Pittsburgh over Philly at 4.75 Million, so just because he got 4.25 from Montreal doesn't mean WE could get him for the same or a little but more, Maybe it costs 5 Million or more to get him to the Burgh

I guarantee you he had more than just an offer from Montreal, and for whatever reason, that's the one he went with

If we're talking about capspace

Hornqvist 5.3
Johnson 3.25
Bjugstad 4.1

vs

Matheson 4.8
Kapanen 3.2
Sceviour 1.2
(JJ off the team) 1.1
(Bjugstad off the team) 2.0

Pick a group, They both cost the same money
- TheGame316

The point is the Pens could have had more space. Sadly, JJ isn’t gone without JR taking on another bad contract.

JR could have bought JJ out, let Riikola take over the 3rd pair without blocking POJ and have room to take TJ for free or at the very least fill out the line up with more quality.

OK, you're Tyler Toffoli

Hey Tyler, It's The Flyers, we'd like to offer you 4.75 Million per year, you say "I'll think about it"

Hey Tyler, It's the Kings, we'll offer you 4.5 Million but I'm warning you, we're rebuilding but you're from here

Hey Tyler, It's the Habs, I'll offer you 4.25 Million for 4 years, whaddya say?

Hey Tyler, Its GMJR, Can I have you at the lowest possible price? What's it going to take to get you to Pittsburgh?

I'm saying a player, like Toffoli, wouldn't necessarily choose Pittsburgh over the Habs at 4.25 Million, or Pittsburgh over Los Angeles at 4.5 Million, or Pittsburgh over Philly at 4.75 Million, so just because he got 4.25 from Montreal doesn't mean WE could get him for the same or a little but more

I guarantee you he had more than just an offer from Montreal, and for whatever reason, that's the one he went with
- TheGame316

Youre fixating on one player. I'm talking about EVERY single player thats signed so far that's better than what GMJR has signed so far, of which there's been so many. You're also assuming that GMJR asks what's the lowest possible price when he has history of showing he cares not about prices haha.

EDIT: Also...Montreal has by far the worst tax rates and the Canadian dollar is sh!t. Hes only going to clear half of his salary. The tax rate is almost right on 50% in Quebec at that income level.

Everyone thought Jim Benning was an idiot for not trading for OEL, then letting Chris Tanev walk and their D was screwed UNTIL out of nowhere he used the capspace he had to trade a 3rd for Nate Schmidt, so I'm going to reserve judgment until every dollar is spent

I still think we are better off with Mathesons potential and the potential of a mobile 3rd pairing over a slow, oft injured Hornqvist choking out the 3rd line

If a guy like Hoffman is signed to 2 year 8 Million and some other move is made to free up some cap GMJR is going to look like a genius
- TheGame316

Chris Tanev sucks and OEL has become a fairly overrated PP specialist. Were a lot of people calling him a moron for those two specific non-moves? If anything that’s exactly why you don’t make low-value panic moves, because then the high value moves you didn’t know were there like Schmidt can fall into your lap.

The point is the Pens could have had more space. Sadly, JJ isn’t gone without JR taking on another bad contract.

JR could have bought JJ out, let Riikola take over the 3rd pair without blocking POJ and have room to take TJ for free or at the very least fill out the line up with more quality.
- Rinosaur

So, you'd have Johnson at 5 instead of Kapanen at 3.2 and no capspace left right now? Because Hornqvist and his 5.3 Million is still here if we don't have Matheson and his 4.8

and then you have to figure out where the money comes from for Marino next year with 3 more years of Johnson at 5 Million and 2 more years of Horn at 5.3

Chris Tanev sucks and OEL has become a fairly overrated PP specialist. Were a lot of people calling him a moron for those two specific non-moves? If anything that’s exactly why you don’t make low-value panic moves, because then the high value moves you didn’t know were there like Schmidt can fall into your lap.
- Victoro311

This is exactly.

There were a few of us here saying we thought that contracts were going to be cheap and short term this offseason, especially when we learned of the flat cap....didnt GMJR think about this too and think he should maybe wait? haha

Chris Tanev sucks and OEL has become a fairly overrated PP specialist. Were a lot of people calling him a moron for those two specific non-moves? If anything that’s exactly why you don’t make low-value panic moves, because then the high value moves you didn’t know were there like Schmidt can fall into your lap.
- Victoro311

Spend some time in the Canucks blog or on Canuck fans twitter

Yes they were

They had a Top 6 of Hughes, Edler and Myers and 3 scrubs and/or rookies before that trade

you retain 50% on Killorn/Johnson and we'll do it

We flip Petterson for a pick and we only add a million or so to our cap

Jake Sid Killorn
Zucker Malkin Rust
McCann Johnson Kap
Tanev Blueger Jank/ERod/Sceviour

Dumo Letang
Matheson Marino
Rikki Ruhwedal

Jarry
DeSmith

I'm in
- TheGame316

Or, we'll swap you Stamkos for a 1st.

Or, we'll swap you Stamkos for a 1st.
- GalacticStone

Stammer for 3C!

This is exactly.

There were a few of us here saying we thought that contracts were going to be cheap and short term this offseason, especially when we learned of the flat cap....didnt GMJR think about this too and think he should maybe wait? haha
- MattStrat

Contracts have been short term but VERY FEW have been only 1 year

We have NO MONEY coming off our cap at the end of this year and we have to resign Marino

We cannot tie up a bunch of money beyond 2020/2021 on cap dumps or free agents

Or, we'll swap you Stamkos for a 1st.
- GalacticStone

Stamkos and a conditional 2nd for a 1st (Conditional on him being able to actually play more than 20% of any playoff games)

Nah. The rebuild starts when Sid and Geno hang em up. Keep the team competitive for the HOFers to go off into the sunset. Rebuild after. Sid and Geno deserve it.
- j.boyd919

Yep, let's mortgage the future for that Stanley Cup, YOU admit they probably aren't going to win. But hey, let's suck for Sid's and Geno's sake!

BTW - Sid and Geno were well compensated by the Pens. They don't deserve anything more.

I mean, It's RIGHT HERE

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...central/team.php?team=PIT

Assuming Marino gets 4.5 Million we have exactly 5 Million and need 5 players for 2021/2022 and Blueger is one of them and will probably warrant a raise, so it's probably more like 3 million for 4 players

While shopping for "bargains" we are offering 1 year deals

If you want to look at the current moves with some hindsight why not look forward as well.

How many owners do you think are going to want to shed salary at the trade deadline when either there are no fans and/or their main source of income is still taking a beating from Covid?

It seems to be easier to get the players you want via trade than through FA. Pens have some cap now, a bunch of cheap contracts that would be easier to move/waive to get the player that helps whatever the team might be lacking.

If a 3rd rounder gets you a Andreas Johnsson now, maybe it gets you a better fitting 3C than Koivu, Granlund, or Turris then.

Yep, let's mortgage the future for that Stanley Cup, YOU admit they probably aren't going to win. But hey, let's suck for Sid's and Geno's sake!

BTW - Sid and Geno were well compensated by the Pens. They don't deserve anything more.
- stevens87

What a garbage take. Sid and Geno have done more for this franchise than anyone not named Mario Lemieux. Starting the rebuild now vs when they retire is probably a difference of four or so years. And even then, regardless of what rout we take, there's so much luck involved in rebuilding a team that things can go super right and expedite everything (Rangers) or go super wrong and slow everything down (Red Wings). We could sell everyone off this offseason and take 20 years to become competitors again, or we could just as easily let Sid and Geno ride into the sunset and turn it around in 5 years or less if we hit on the right draft pick. There's really no way of telling.

If you can't handle waiting to rebuild until the two generational talents that breathed new life into this franchise either hang them up or decide they want to chase Cups somewhere else, then feel free to change teams to a franchise you deem has a more "winning" strategy.

Youre fixating on one player. I'm talking about EVERY single player thats signed so far that's better than what GMJR has signed so far, of which there's been so many. You're also assuming that GMJR asks what's the lowest possible price when he has history of showing he cares not about prices haha.

EDIT: Also...Montreal has by far the worst tax rates and the Canadian dollar is sh!t. Hes only going to clear half of his salary. The tax rate is almost right on 50% in Quebec at that income level.
- MattStrat

He obviously chose them for a reason. Unlikely they were his only offer

GMJR can offer 1 year deals. Show me the comparable 1 year deals that GMJR should have had that you can confidently say the player would have chosen HERE over where they signed

You can't use a guy like Pat Maroon signing in TB for 800k. That was clearly the price for that specific team

What a garbage take. Sid and Geno have done more for this franchise than anyone not named Mario Lemieux. Starting the rebuild now vs when they retire is probably a difference of four or so years. And even then, regardless of what rout we take, there's so much luck involved in rebuilding a team that things can go super right and expedite everything (Rangers) or go super wrong and slow everything down (Red Wings). We could sell everyone off this offseason and take 20 years to become competitors again, or we could just as easily let Sid and Geno ride into the sunset and turn it around in 5 years or less if we hit on the right draft pick. There's really no way of telling.

If you can't handle waiting to rebuild until the two generational talents that breathed new life into this franchise either hang them up or decide they want to chase Cups somewhere else, then feel free to change teams to a franchise you deem has a more "winning" strategy.
- Victoro311

Well said homie.

What a garbage take. Sid and Geno have done more for this franchise than anyone not named Mario Lemieux. Starting the rebuild now vs when they retire is probably a difference of four or so years. And even then, regardless of what rout we take, there's so much luck involved in rebuilding a team that things can go super right and expedite everything (Rangers) or go super wrong and slow everything down (Red Wings). We could sell everyone off this offseason and take 20 years to become competitors again, or we could just as easily let Sid and Geno ride into the sunset and turn it around in 5 years or less if we hit on the right draft pick. There's really no way of telling.

If you can't handle waiting to rebuild until the two generational talents that breathed new life into this franchise either hang them up or decide they want to chase Cups somewhere else, then feel free to change teams to a franchise you deem has a more "winning" strategy.
- Victoro311

You just can't take off your Penguins glasses and see reality. Let's make more Patrick Marleau trades of giving up a third round pick for a guy completely over the hill.

No, the Pens should do the same thing the LA Clippers did to get Paul George. Let's trade 5 first round picks for let's say Steven Stamkos because we should do it for Sid and Geno!

He obviously chose them for a reason. Unlikely they were his only offer

GMJR can offer 1 year deals. Show me the comparable 1 year deals that GMJR should have had that you can confidently say the player would have chosen HERE over where they signed

You can't use a guy like Pat Maroon signing in TB for 800k. That was clearly the price for that specific team
- TheGame316

I already said I cant prove it in a previous post...but its certainly not far fetched and not near as far fetched as every single signing that was better, of which there were many, that didn't/wouldn't want to play for the Pens.

JR could of signed players for more than one season.

You just can't take off your Penguins glasses and see reality. Let's make more Patrick Marleau trades of giving up a third round pick for a guy completely over the hill.

No, the Pens should do the same thing the LA Clippers did to get Paul George. Let's trade 5 first round picks for let's say Steven Stamkos because we should do it for Sid and Geno!
- stevens87

Well they brought us to the promise land 3 times...and there's franchises that haven't even been there once. I'm on board with making these guys last years as enjoyable and as competitive as possible, because they are both fierce competitors who will not want to just fizzle next season and also they deserve it. The thing is Geno was on pace for one of his best seasons ever last season, so I dont want to get on like these guys are done on the ice. With the right moves and players around them this team could still be a contender.

You just can't take off your Penguins glasses and see reality. Let's make more Patrick Marleau trades of giving up a third round pick for a guy completely over the hill.

No, the Pens should do the same thing the LA Clippers did to get Paul George. Let's trade 5 first round picks for let's say Steven Stamkos because we should do it for Sid and Geno!
- stevens87

Stupid and misses the point. Going into full rebuild and Rutherford continuing to make bad moves are two completely separate issues. Obviously there's a gap in our FO's talent evaluation, but that's an argument for firing Rutherford, not packing it in going into rebuild.

Also that comparison is (frank)ing stupid. The Clippers didn't have a HoF star that they drafted and had spent his whole career there that they were telling to go kick rocks. They were building a whole new team post-Lob City Era. The much better comparison would be Kobe's LA, Duncan's SA, Dirk's Mavs, or Wade's Heat. Guess what all those franchise did? Kept trying to field competitive teams even after the window was soundly closed and let them retire on their own time.

You just can't take off your Penguins glasses and see reality. Let's make more Patrick Marleau trades of giving up a third round pick for a guy completely over the hill.

No, the Pens should do the same thing the LA Clippers did to get Paul George. Let's trade 5 first round picks for let's say Steven Stamkos because we should do it for Sid and Geno!
- stevens87

Lol wut. Oof. You should probably log off for the day. Come back when you’ve le... actually no. Don’t come back.

You just can't take off your Penguins glasses and see reality. Let's make more Patrick Marleau trades of giving up a third round pick for a guy completely over the hill.

No, the Pens should do the same thing the LA Clippers did to get Paul George. Let's trade 5 first round picks for let's say Steven Stamkos because we should do it for Sid and Geno!
- stevens87

It's got to be a miserable business trying to constantly convince fans of your team to give up on them like you have.