3.1 is too low. Yzerman going low.

3.1 is too low. Yzerman going low.
- wingz4life

I agree. The accepted rationale is the moderator hits the halfway mark. I believe Bertuzzi is worth the 4/4.25 he’s looking for. The new market is so bizarre

Don’t worry...wings will go a lot lower!

If I understand the numbers correctly, I think the Rangers are actually at ~$7 million under even with all that extra crap.

Active roster (21 players): ~$57.5m
Buyouts: ~$13 m
Bonus cushion penalty: ~$4m

TOTAL: ~$74.5 million

For whatever reason CapFriendly does not seem to be accounting for $4 million bonus cushion penalty in their projected cap hit calculations for the Rangers, but the buyouts are already factored in.
- Sven22

Oh, yeah, you are right! I think .....nevermind . I did not do the math and have the Buy-outs in there. Thanks!

Don’t worry...wings will go a lot lower!
- bruceflyers

Dude... it takes a special kind of Stupid to post some of the crap that you post. Calling you a clueless troll would be an insult to a troll.

Don’t worry...wings will go a lot lower!
- bruceflyers

Don't worry... you were only 3 years old when you did this.
Your mom didn't mean for everyone to see it.

Don't worry... you were only 3 years old when you did this.
Your mom didn't mean for everyone to see it.


- gergeswillems

Mantha is much better than Bertuzzi.
- Sven22

When we look at pure numbers, Little Bert's numbers: 199GP, 49G, 70A, 119pts over 3 yrs, the last 2 yrs he's logged 21G each....so, averaging: 16G, 23A, 39 pts
Mantha 260GP, 84G, 89A, 173pts.....over 5yrs averaging 17G, 17A, and 34pts each season....while playing 80, 67, and 43 games in each of the past 3 yrs (190 GP...)...Bert's played 48, 77, and 73 games.
Pure numbers bear out Little Bert being statistically better....in Assists, PTS & GP. I would offer that Bert gets much dirtier than Mantha, intangibles that folks like, gets under opponent's skin and takes them off their game. Mantha's a brute, good speed, wicked shot....and his own suite in the hospital. In his best 3 yrs for games played, Mantha's played ~225 games to Bert's 199...If Mo had more games, I've no doubt that his stats would be much better....but what COULD'VE been doesn't factor into being paid.
Now, all that stuff aside, Mo's a beast and may deserve more $$, and I'd be OK with that because he's a corner-stone of this team. But when I look at raw data (don't understand nor do Corsi, blah blah blah....), the stats don't bear it out...YET. But when Mo's healthy....good Lord watch out. 4x$5.5m for Mo, Bert gets 5x$5m. Sign the damn contracts!! 🤣🤣🤣

Now, like J's alluded to; there's a reckoning coming to the NHL in the form of insanely lower receipts. Something's going to have to give when doing contracts for players, advertisers, and broadcast partners. I think the Escrow & Withholding will need to be re-looked when the gates & concession #s come out...and it ain't good. I am truly concerned about the league's overall financial health....and when talking contracts, we've already seen the impact. The worst is out there, and will have damning impacts going forward.

Don’t worry...wings will go a lot lower!
- bruceflyers

Window-licker.....

3.1 is too low. Yzerman going low.
- wingz4life

The beautiful part of this is that DET is in a position to not be overly concerned about the cap, soley about the cap. But they do need to be concerned about the overall financials. When that story breaks, we're all going to be shocked. The NHLs financial health isn't good....will get better. But getting back to healthy is going to take time and cuts....ain't no government bail-outs for the NHL, methinks. Sadly. So the 1st casualty is player's salary. That's why I went w/the numbers I did w/Mantha & Bert. If The Captain plays this right, DET could emerge as one of the teams in better shape than most of the others....and with a DAMN good foundation of players forming the team going forward.

Mantha is slightly more productive at even strength (primary points / 60) although it's admittedly very close, significantly more productive on the powerplay, better play driver, better defensively.

I was exaggerating a bit when I said Mantha is "much" better than Bertuzzi but I do see him as a step above for sure. Competent first line winger vs. solid second line winger IMO.

Mantha is slightly more productive at even strength (primary points / 60) although it's admittedly very close, significantly more productive on the powerplay, better play driver, better defensively.

I was exaggerating a bit when I said Mantha is "much" better than Bertuzzi but I do see him as a step above for sure. Competent first line winger vs. solid second line winger IMO.
- Sven22

Yes Mantha deserves more money. Bert is still climbing and has been a surprisingly good find!

3.1 is too low. Yzerman going low.
- wingz4life

I guess you are not familiar with the arbitration process. Player goes higher than what he really wants while the team goes lower than what they expect to sign him for if they reach a contract so they end up in the middle.

Connor Brown of the Sens had asked for 4.8 while the sens number was 2.25 mil. They agreed on a 3 year deal before the hearing for an average of 3.6 mil.

Wings and Bert are decently close so i assume the biggest problem for them right now might have been term to get a deal done before the arbitration. It's also possible one of the hurdles might be a NMC/NTC, or it could be signing bonus money. I would imagine Yzerman will be a bit more stingy on giving out NTCs now with what is happening in Tampa. Signing bonus money with the revenues being way down might be an issue for teams right now too. If the league is stopped again, those signing bonuses are still to be paid on July 1st no matter what.

I guess you are not familiar with the arbitration process. Player goes higher than what he really wants while the team goes lower than what they expect to sign him for if they reach a contract so they end up in the middle.

Connor Brown of the Sens had asked for 4.8 while the sens number was 2.25 mil. They agreed on a 3 year deal before the hearing for an average of 3.6 mil.

Wings and Bert are decently close so i assume the biggest problem for them right now might have been term to get a deal done before the arbitration. It's also possible one of the hurdles might be a NMC/NTC, or it could be signing bonus money. I would imagine Yzerman will be a bit more stingy on giving out NTCs now with what is happening in Tampa. Signing bonus money with the revenues being way down might be an issue for teams right now too. If the league is stopped again, those signing bonuses are still to be paid on July 1st no matter what.
- dcz28

Can't get an NTC or NMC til his FA contract.

Mantha is slightly more productive at even strength (primary points / 60) although it's admittedly very close, significantly more productive on the powerplay, better play driver, better defensively.

I was exaggerating a bit when I said Mantha is "much" better than Bertuzzi but I do see him as a step above for sure. Competent first line winger vs. solid second line winger IMO.
- Sven22

But you have a very valid point in that Mo is a more established player, and I do agree that, in the aggregate, Mo probably deserves a bit more. The thing is, BOTH are absolutely crucial to the re-build and establishing DET as a perennial play-off team.

If we can lock in the core of the team for several years, there are wonderful things in store for the team and fans. There is such a great base on which to build.

Quick update - i posted a tweet on the front page. Deal doesn’t seem to have been reached. If they did arbitration meeting, team can no longer offer a contract. Both parties have to live with ruling at this point

Quick update - i posted a tweet on the front page. Deal doesn’t seem to have been reached. If they did arbitration meeting, team can no longer offer a contract. Both parties have to live with ruling at this point
- Jeremy Laura

Thanks Jeremy!

Don't worry... you were only 3 years old when you did this.
Your mom didn't mean for everyone to see it.


- gergeswillems

Wow! That is a WIDE roll! Must be a big butt bung-hole bungalow!

But you have a very valid point in that Mo is a more established player, and I do agree that, in the aggregate, Mo probably deserves a bit more. The thing is, BOTH are absolutely crucial to the re-build and establishing DET as a perennial play-off team.

If we can lock in the core of the team for several years, there are wonderful things in store for the team and fans. There is such a great base on which to build.
- mcmastermike1968

TBH, while I really like both players and hope they both stick around for a while, I'm not sure I would call either "absolutely crucial" to the re-build.

IMO they are both much closer to Tatar / Nyquist caliber players (and I say that as someone who is very much a big fan of Tatar especially) than they are to being successors to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Fedorov, Yzerman, Shanahan, etc. Plus Mantha is already 26 and Bertuzzi will be in February. Very likely they are both already as good as they will ever be, or nearly so.

If the Red Wings get back to contender status while both are still on the team, it won't be because we built around Mantha and Bertuzzi (or even Larkin) as a core. It'll be because at least a couple of the younger players in the system (Raymond, Zadina, Seider, Berggren, whoever we draft next year, etc.) blossomed into truly elite players, with Larkin / Mantha / Bertuzzi supporting them in more complementary roles.

Thanks Jeremy!
- HenryHockey

Thank you H2!

Can't get an NTC or NMC til his FA contract.
- HenryHockey

Well you kind of can if it is a long term deal that goes into the players UFA years but the clause won't be able to be in until the player gets to those years in the contract.

For example, McDavid signed for 8 years off his ELC and the first 4 years of his contract don't have a NTC but the final 4 years do.

Well you kind of can if it is a long term deal that goes into the players UFA years but the clause won't be able to be in until the player gets to those years in the contract.

For example, McDavid signed for 8 years off his ELC and the first 4 years of his contract don't have a NTC but the final 4 years do.
- dcz28

exactly!

With Bertuzzi going to salary arbitration and Yzerman signing 2 UFA forwards (Namestnikov, Ryan) since buying out Abdelkader, does it make sense to use the second buyout window and buy Nielsen out?

Cap space isn't an issue but we could use more roster spot flexibility. I don't expect Yzerman to do it. He'll likely buyout Nielsen next summer.

With Bertuzzi going to salary arbitration and Yzerman signing 2 UFA forwards (Namestnikov, Ryan) since buying out Abdelkader, does it make sense to use the second buyout window and buy Nielsen out?

Cap space isn't an issue but we could use more roster spot flexibility. I don't expect Yzerman to do it. He'll likely buyout Nielsen next summer.
- gergeswillems

Yzerman might be able to move Nielsen next summer once the Wings pay the 1.5 signing bonus on July 1st. With the signing bonus paid Nielsen is only owed 1.5 million in actual salary for the season so if the Wings pick up 50% of the salary/cap hit, then he might be more of interest for another team to take a gamble on. Flat cap might keep teams away though even with little salary and half the cap hit.

With Bertuzzi going to salary arbitration and Yzerman signing 2 UFA forwards (Namestnikov, Ryan) since buying out Abdelkader, does it make sense to use the second buyout window and buy Nielsen out?

Cap space isn't an issue but we could use more roster spot flexibility. I don't expect Yzerman to do it. He'll likely buyout Nielsen next summer.
- gergeswillems

On potential benefit of not buying Nielsen out is to help fulfill Detroit's obligation to expose a minimum number of experienced NHL vets under contract in next year's expansion draft.

Teams are required to leave at least two forwards unprotected who are (1) under contract through at least 2021-22 and (2) play either 40 games this year or 70 total games this year and last. (Numbers may be end up getting prorated due to COVID.)

Right now here's the complete list of expansion-draft-eligible forwards the Red Wings have who are signed through 2022:

Larkin (already qualified)
Nielsen (needs to play 10 games to qualify)
Fabbri (9 games)
Namestnikov (already qualified)
Barber (40 games)

Mantha (27 games), Bertuzzi (already qualified), and Timashov (26 games) could all join this list as well if all are signed for at least two years.

Considering that the Red Wings would almost certainly want to protect Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, and Namestnikov, and Barber is extremely unlikely to get 40 games, that leaves Nielsen as the only obvious current candidate that would meet the exposure requirement. (And remember, two are required.)

Now there are a number of ways to get around this -- trade for a crappy vet purely so you have someone to expose, extend any of Erne / Glendening / Gagner / etc. and leave them unprotected, etc. So in the end it may not make a difference.

That said, I'd say keep him around one more year and let him center the fourth line. Get at least 10 games out of him. Expose him in the expansion draft, then maybe buy him out afterward (since he clearly won't get selected).