We lost 2019 because we were (are) too small and got pushed around near the crease (on both sides). That was true again this year against the Lightning. How many Lightning goals were off of deflections in the slot or right at the crease (or from taking away Halak's eyes)? And they were able to get those because they could force their way in there with little effort (or keep our guys out of those same areas).
- bluemoon737

Heck, even McAvoy is too small in my opinion to be a true 1D in this day and age. Granted he plays bigger than he is, and I'll give him tons of credit for that, but that also tends to end up resulting in injuries and McAvoy has already had his share of missed time.

Read: he's another 3rd liner.
- 77emac77

Unless something changes, he'll be our 2RW. And the sad thing is that it will be a huge improvement. He does fit well with Krejci though...big body that can go to the net and is able to score. Somewhat in the Horton mold.

Unless something changes, he'll be our 2RW. And the sad thing is that it will be a huge improvement. He does fit well with Krejci though...big body that can go to the net and is able to score. Somewhat in the Horton mold.
- bluemoon737

Not sure I would call him a "big body" at 6-1 208. Isn't that Charlie MacAvoy size?

But he is better than anyone that played there last year (outside of Pasta's odd game there).
I still think we should shift Pasta to R2 in order to balance out the scoring.

Not sure I would call him a "big body" at 6-1 208. Isn't that Charlie MacAvoy size?

But he is better than anyone that played there last year (outside of Pasta's odd game there).
I still think we should shift Pasta to R2 in order to balance out the scoring.
- Nasty_Duck

Well, big body by our standards. Yes, almost exact same size as McAvoy, but a d-man should be "bigger" relatively speaking, particularly a 1D. That being said about McAvoy, if Chara is signed then we could line up Chara and Carlo in the shutdown role which would reduce that requirement on McAvoy.

Exactly.... Whether this is a coaching flaw I don't know, but Cassidy's forward group did not get to the tough areas in front of the TB net. No wonder they didn't have any success 5on5. It seems like pretty simple playoff hockey to me. It doesn't appear the makeup in the top 9 is willing to go into those areas. Maybe Smith will help that cause.

Exactly.... Whether this is a coaching flaw I don't know, but Cassidy's forward group did not get to the tough areas in front of the TB net. No wonder they didn't have any success 5on5. It seems like pretty simple playoff hockey to me. It doesn't appear the makeup in the top 9 is willing to go into those areas. Maybe Smith will help that cause.
- Tachmo

Well how many forwards do we have that are 200+ lbs? We have none in the top 6. Send our guys near the crease against Tampa's d-men that are all big bodies at 200+...it doesn't bode well.

Tierney got 3.5 a season with less numbers than Debrusk. Not good news for the Bruins cap.

Well how many forwards do we have that are 200+ lbs? We have none in the top 6. Send our guys near the crease against Tampa's d-men that are all big bodies at 200+...it doesn't bode well.
- bluemoon737

They are undersized for sure. But you don't have to be 200 pounds to go to the net. You can play gritty. Marchand is gritty, and Krejci can play gritty when he wants to.

Tierney got 3.5 a season with less numbers than Debrusk. Not good news for the Bruins cap.
- Tachmo

You mean Chris Tierney, the UFA who signed with Ottawa who still has $14M in Cap space?

Not even close to same situation.

They are undersized for sure. But you don't have to be 200 pounds to go to the net. You can play gritty. Marchand is gritty, and Krejci can play gritty when he wants to.
- Tachmo

Agreed, just easier to do when you've got the beef.

They are undersized for sure. But you don't have to be 200 pounds to go to the net. You can play gritty. Marchand is gritty, and Krejci can play gritty when he wants to.
- Tachmo

Well how about Reinhart (RFA) for one year at $5.2M. Granted, a bit better stats than Debrusk but not enormously better.

You mean Chris Tierney, the UFA who signed with Ottawa who still has $14M in Cap space?

Not even close to same situation.
- Nasty_Duck

I wasn’t aware he was a UFA.

Well how about Reinhart (RFA) for one year at $5.2M. Granted, a bit better stats than Debrusk but not enormously better.
- bluemoon737

A "bit better"?

He signed a 1 year deal and with 5+ years under his belt and probably had arbitration rights.

Better comparison than the Tierney example but more like apples to oranges instead of apples to ground beef.

I wasn’t aware he was a UFA.
- Tachmo

He wasn't, he was a RFA with arbitration rights. Just like Gryz, signed before his hearing.

You mean Chris Tierney, the UFA who signed with Ottawa who still has $14M in Cap space?

Not even close to same situation.
- Nasty_Duck

The article I read he was an RFA. I think it is comparable and I don’t think it matters how much cap space a team has. It’s gonna be used as a bargaining tool from Debrusk and his agent.

In my opinion, it's unrealistic to expect Debrusk to sign for anywhere close to as low as $2M. How many consistent 20+ goal scorers do you think are out there (hint, outside of Debrusk we have only had 4, maybe)?

The article I read he was an RFA. I think it is comparable and I don’t think it matters how much cap space a team has. It’s gonna be used as a bargaining tool from Debrusk and his agent.
- Tachmo

thought it was UFA but you might be right on that.

However, his 6 years is double that of DeBrusk.
So he had a 2nd contract already at 2.9M. So this is third contract.
And... we are talking Ottawa here - they HAVE to pay someone to reach the CAP floor.

Sorry not making excuses for an organization that won the Presidents Trophy going away with this same group. I get that teams get hot but the talent level on this team should've at least made it more of a series.

I'm not super big into rewarding mediocrity (See Kelly, Chris). That's what DeBrusk is to this point in his career. Mediocre. So he's earned mediocre money and term. Rewarding him now, should be a factor in Sweeney and Neely being fired.
- glove_was_stuck

I definitely get what you’re saying, I’m not trying to argue for DeBrusk as much as just the future outlook as a whole. JD is the kind of player you love as long as he’s paid like a good 3rd liner/ mediocre 2nd liner. Unless he starts pushing 30 a year like he should. 3.5 max for him imo.

I just think the team as a whole is still a contender. If one of the young left D can make the jump to legit top 4 next year this is still a president trophy caliber group. If not they have the cap space to add at the TDL

I think outside of the 2015 draft (which was mostly run by Chirelli staff) the Sweeney Neely team has done relatively well compared to other teams

I definitely get what you’re saying, I’m not trying to argue for DeBrusk as much as just the future outlook as a whole. JD is the kind of player you love as long as he’s paid like a good 3rd liner/ mediocre 2nd liner. Unless he starts pushing 30 a year like he should. 3.5 max for him imo.

I just think the team as a whole is still a contender. If one of the young left D can make the jump to legit top 4 next year this is still a president trophy caliber group. If not they have the cap space to add at the TDL

I think outside of the 2015 draft (which was mostly run by Chirelli staff) the Sweeney Neely team has done relatively well compared to other teams
- Shaundre93

Sweeney has done a decent job with the team. Can't take that away from him. Neely on the other hand should've been gone years ago. 7-8 years ago to be precise. The biggest thing with Sweeney for me is he now 5 years in and still hasn't built a real top 6. He's made some real questionable free agency signings and reached on picks when the talent was there for the taking.

I want to be clear I don't dislike DeBrusk. I am however questioning him as a top 6 forward and dubious on signing him for term. I would rather be cautious and take a hard line with him. Bridge deal, sit out or trade. Or let some team make a mistake and offer sheet him. This is a fringe top 6 /definite top 9 guy. He is not on the level of Marchand or Pastrnak. I think his play and numbers are elevated by skating alongside Krejci.

EDIT: If I'm wrong I'll stand by it. I was certainly wrong about Riley Smith. But I have also been right about few guys they've tried to shoehorn on Krejci's line after Lucic & Horton.

Sweeney has done a decent job with the team. Can't take that away from him. Neely on the other hand should've been gone years ago. 7-8 years ago to be precise. The biggest thing with Sweeney for me is he now 5 years in and still hasn't built a real top 6. He's made some real questionable free agency signings and reached on picks when the talent was there for the taking.

I want to be clear I don't dislike DeBrusk. I am however questioning him as a top 6 forward and dubious on signing him for term. I would rather be cautious and take a hard line with him. Bridge deal, sit out or trade. Or let some team make a mistake and offer sheet him. This is a fringe top 6 /definite top 9 guy. He is not on the level of Marchand or Pastrnak. I think his play and numbers are elevated by skating alongside Krejci.

EDIT: If I'm wrong I'll stand by it. I was certainly wrong about Riley Smith. But I have also been right about few guys they've tried to shoehorn on Krejci's line after Lucic & Horton.
- glove_was_stuck

Pretty much agree on all points. I appear to be the guy "defending" Debrusk the most here but my take is that there is a bunch of talk of basically low-balling him and I think he does deserve more than that. He is clearly a middle 6 guy and right now I would put him as a lower tier 2LW or upper tier 3LW. If he is able to professionally mature and get out of his head to help with his consistency, he could end up being a solid 2LW otherwise he's a pretty darn good 3LW. Would love to sign him for a 1 or 2 year bridge deal so he stays a RFA but obviously his camp is likely looking for a 3 year deal to get him to UFA status and that might be why no movement thus far.

Pretty much agree on all points. I appear to be the guy "defending" Debrusk the most here but my take is that there is a bunch of talk of basically low-balling him and I think he does deserve more than that. He is clearly a middle 6 guy and right now I would put him as a lower tier 2LW or upper tier 3LW. If he is able to professionally mature and get out of his head to help with his consistency, he could end up being a solid 2LW otherwise he's a pretty darn good 3LW. Would love to sign him for a 1 or 2 year bridge deal so he stays a RFA but obviously his camp is likely looking for a 3 year deal to get him to UFA status and that might be why no movement thus far.
- bluemoon737

I also agree on a Bridge so long as it's below $4M.

His camp may want a 3 year deal but they really have no leverage. The best they can do is sign a short-term deal that will get him to arbitration. Otherwise he sits.

I also agree on a Bridge so long as it's below $4M.

His camp may want a 3 year deal but they really have no leverage. The best they can do is sign a short-term deal that will get him to arbitration. Otherwise he sits.
- Nasty_Duck

Yeah, would be happy with a 1 year near or at $4M or 2 years at total $6M-$7M. Obviously if we can get him cheaper, great!

I also agree on a Bridge so long as it's below $4M.

His camp may want a 3 year deal but they really have no leverage. The best they can do is sign a short-term deal that will get him to arbitration. Otherwise he sits.
- Nasty_Duck

I think it needs to be this. Would like to see more towards 3M hit on the cap.

I think it needs to be this. Would like to see more towards 3M hit on the cap.
- glove_was_stuck

I think Bertuzzi's recent 1 year $3.5M arbitration signing is probably the closest comparable. I too would prefer closer to $3M but suspect it might be a bit higher.