Bill - do you think there was at least a little "the fired guy wanted him so there's no way I'm going to pick him" going on there?
- Scoob

I think it was strictly a matter of the Velvet Revolution being too recent to be sure it would hold, and correspondingly, not knowing exactly when Jagr would be available to come to the NHL.

Don't forget that Petr Nedved defected to Canada a year earlier to play for Farwell's team in Seattle. Farwell coveted the second overall pick to take Nedved but Pat Quinn wouldn't trade it.

After Nedved went 2nd and Keith Primeau went 3rd, the choice was whether to go with the sure thing and have Ricci immediately or to potentially have to wait for Jagr (who ended up being immediately available now that communism had fallen in Czechoslovakia and the communist official run hockey federation was powerless to prevent or delay the transfer).

Different times.

With all due respect to Quebec, Vancouver, Detroit & Philadelphia, even with concerns about him coming over to North America it’s a huge miss in draft folklore.

All that said, Owen Nolan had a pretty darn good career and almost 20 teams passing on Keith Tkachuk and Martin Brodeur (Vancouver twice) can be added to the huge misses that happen every so often in the NHL drafts.
- Dave21Brown

You know what I noticed looking back at that draft, by my count, 9 of the tope 20 picks eventually played for the Flyers with two of them wearing the C..

That is statistical malpractice. The only thing I could agree with is "correlation" as no causation has been established. There is also a positive correlation between number of shark bites and amount of ice cream sold. Should we stop selling ice cream?
- missingmike

No. But in that case, the explanation is very simple. Ice cream is mostly sold in summer months, which is when people go to beaches. Its the same incidental correlation between cold weather and sickness.

In most of science, you don't get causation to begin with. You get correlation. You then look at reasons for correlation. And if you can prove a good reason, you get the causative influence you are looking for.

Here there is no reason for causation. And no reason to rule it out. The variables are too murky.

This leaves ground for a conjecture, which is what I engaged in.

I think it was strictly a matter of the Velvet Revolution being too recent to be sure it would hold, and correspondingly, not knowing exactly when Jagr would be available to come to the NHL.

Don't forget that Petr Nedved defected to Canada a year earlier to play for Farwell's team in Seattle. Farwell coveted the second overall pick to take Nedved but Pat Quinn wouldn't trade it.

After Nedved went 2nd and Keith Primeau went 3rd, the choice was whether to go with the sure thing and have Ricci immediately or to potentially have to wait for Jagr (who ended up being immediately available now that communism had fallen in Czechoslovakia and the communist official run hockey federation was powerless to prevent or delay the transfer).

Different times.
- bmeltzer

In context, you can't fault them with making that decision. I remember discussions by the experts on TSN about when/if Jagr would come over

No. But in that case, the explanation is very simple. Ice cream is mostly sold in summer months, which is when people go to beaches. Its the same incidental correlation between cold weather and sickness.

In most of science, you don't get causation to begin with. You get correlation. You then look at reasons for correlation. And if you can prove a good reason, you get the causative influence you are looking for.

Here there is no reason for causation. And no reason to rule it out. The variables are too murky.

This leaves ground for a conjecture, which is what I engaged in.
- PT21

Had you included that into your original post, you would have avoided inflamed responses. We would have avoided causation

That is statistical malpractice. The only thing I could agree with is "correlation" as no causation has been established. There is also a positive correlation between number of shark bites and amount of ice cream sold. Should we stop selling ice cream?
- missingmike

there's also a correlation between mental levels and being a trump supporter should we assume that?

there's also a correlation between mental levels and being a trump supporter should we assume that?
- 2Real

Can you support that with evidence?

Also, I am not a Trump supporter, if that what you are implying.

I think it was strictly a matter of the Velvet Revolution being too recent to be sure it would hold, and correspondingly, not knowing exactly when Jagr would be available to come to the NHL.

Don't forget that Petr Nedved defected to Canada a year earlier to play for Farwell's team in Seattle. Farwell coveted the second overall pick to take Nedved but Pat Quinn wouldn't trade it.

After Nedved went 2nd and Keith Primeau went 3rd, the choice was whether to go with the sure thing and have Ricci immediately or to potentially have to wait for Jagr (who ended up being immediately available now that communism had fallen in Czechoslovakia and the communist official run hockey federation was powerless to prevent or delay the transfer).

Different times.
- bmeltzer

Makes sense - thanks for your thoughts

No punches thrown- just questions. There is no testosterone overload- just and intellectual argument.
- missingmike

OK....so you asked, "Are you stating that CoVid management decisions were made solely by the leaders mentioned? "

My answer is, no, I'm sure other leaders did make COVID management decisions. I didnt read PT21's post as anything other than the interesting observation that he said it was.

Had you included that into your original post, you would have avoided inflamed responses. We would have avoided causation
- missingmike

I did. You just never bothered to read it.

I quote:

"There is an interesting little gender correlation between good Covid results and gender, especially flamboyant assertions of gender."

And also btw remember that the presence of correlation alone does not imply the absence of causation either. It just means presence or absence cannot be proved.

You know what I noticed looking back at that draft, by my count, 9 of the tope 20 picks eventually played for the Flyers with two of them wearing the C..
- Hextall271

1990 first rounders who played for the Flyers:

Nedved
Primeau
Ricci (own pick)
Jagr
Greig
D. Hatcher
Antoski
Dykhuis
Turner Stevenson

Beyond 1st rd:
Renberg (own 2nd rd pick)
Therien (own 3rd rd pick)
Kordic (own 5th rd pick)
Butsayev (own 6th rd pick)
Söderström (own 11th rd pick)
Kimbi Daniels (own 3rd rd pick)
Zhamnov
Geoff Sanderson
Zelepukin
Gilbert Dionne
Odjick
Kovalenko
Modry

I think that's all of them. More players from the 1990 Draft played at some point for the Flyers than from any Draft before or since.

I did. You just never bothered to read it.

I quote:

"There is an interesting little gender correlation between good Covid results and gender, especially flamboyant assertions of gender."

And also btw remember that the presence of correlation alone does not imply the absence of causation either. It just means presence or absence cannot be proved.
- PT21

I did, therefore I edited my post.

1990 first rounders who played for the Flyers:

Nedved
Primeau
Ricci (own pick)
Jagr
Greig
D. Hatcher
Antoski
Dykhuis
Turner Stevenson

Beyond 1st rd:
Renberg (own 2nd rd pick)
Therien (own 3rd rd pick)
Kordic (own 5th rd pick)
Butsayev (own 6th rd pick)
Söderström (own 11th rd pick)
Kimbi Daniels (own 3rd rd pick)
Zhamnov
Geoff Sanderson
Zelepukin
Gilbert Dionne
Odjick
Kovalenko
Modry

I think that's all of them. More players from the 1990 Draft played at some point for the Flyers than from any Draft before or since.
- bmeltzer

Thank you.

1990 first rounders who played for the Flyers:

Nedved
Primeau
Ricci (own pick)
Jagr
Greig
D. Hatcher
Antoski
Dykhuis
Turner Stevenson

Beyond 1st rd:
Renberg (own 2nd rd pick)
Therien (own 3rd rd pick)
Kordic (own 5th rd pick)
Butsayev (own 6th rd pick)
Söderström (own 11th rd pick)
Kimbi Daniels (own 3rd rd pick)
Zhamnov
Geoff Sanderson
Zelepukin
Gilbert Dionne
Odjick
Kovalenko
Modry

I think that's all of them. More players from the 1990 Draft played at some point for the Flyers than from any Draft before or since.
- bmeltzer

There’s a bunch of teams that appear to be perennial poor drafters, the Flyers, despite not taking Jagr, aren’t one of them.

This is beyond stupid.
- MJL

The insane PT was gone yesterday for a comment or two, but just like water, he always returns to his own level.

1990 first rounders who played for the Flyers:

Nedved
Primeau
Ricci (own pick)
Jagr
Greig
D. Hatcher
Antoski
Dykhuis
Turner Stevenson

Beyond 1st rd:
Renberg (own 2nd rd pick)
Therien (own 3rd rd pick)
Kordic (own 5th rd pick)
Butsayev (own 6th rd pick)
Söderström (own 11th rd pick)
Kimbi Daniels (own 3rd rd pick)
Zhamnov
Geoff Sanderson
Zelepukin
Gilbert Dionne
Odjick
Kovalenko
Modry

I think that's all of them. More players from the 1990 Draft played at some point for the Flyers than from any Draft before or since.
- bmeltzer

That's insane TBH

Can you support that with evidence?

Also, I am not a Trump supporter, if that what you are implying.
- missingmike

There are posters here trying to prevent this blob from being completely derailed and I respect their efforts.

I will respond with some well known observed correlations and social speculation, but after 6 PM today.

There are posters here trying to prevent this blob from being completely derailed and I respect their efforts.

I will respond with some well known observed correlations and social speculation, but after 6 PM today.
- PT21

Now or at 6PM. The comments are inappropriate for the blog. Take it to the Misc Forum.

To extrapolate on what you wrote, there is a more general point here. You will often find people complaining about the sissification of society, the excessive caution and so on. These people are almost always men.

Men are evolutionarily programmed for favoring bold action. This comes from a time when such attributes were necessary for the survival of the species. Now in society, they largely manifest themselves in sports (good) or violent crime (bad). The people who make more money or live longer are no longer the flamboyant alpha- male dude. They are the engineer type and their imitations: prudent and logical

Men are also represented more heavily in the tail end of most fields. But this disguises the fact that women go to college at higher rates, and do better there on average. They live longer, have better health outcomes and in general report higher levels of happiness.

It is food for thought whether modernity and the kind of life it means is more correlated with feminine norms and much of what we are seeing in the world today, which we call populism, is actually a masculine backlash, and the reason for guys like Trump/Putin/Balsonaro etc flaunting their manhood is part of it.
- PT21

Not sure what your attraction to emasculated men is, but whatever. Stick to hockey.

That is statistical malpractice. The only thing I could agree with is "correlation" as no causation has been established. There is also a positive correlation between number of shark bites and amount of ice cream sold. Should we stop selling ice cream?
- missingmike

So true! Sometimes a person can become educated to the point of becoming absurd.

There are posters here trying to prevent this blob from being completely derailed and I respect their efforts.

I will respond with some well known observed correlations and social speculation, but after 6 PM today.
- PT21

Thanks, but no, thanks.

So true! Sometimes a person can become educated to the point of becoming absurd.
- Letterkenney

Educated and indoctrinated, right into stupidity.

1990 first rounders who played for the Flyers:

Nedved
Primeau
Ricci (own pick)
Jagr
Greig
D. Hatcher
Antoski
Dykhuis
Turner Stevenson

Beyond 1st rd:
Renberg (own 2nd rd pick)
Therien (own 3rd rd pick)
Kordic (own 5th rd pick)
Butsayev (own 6th rd pick)
Söderström (own 11th rd pick)
Kimbi Daniels (own 3rd rd pick)
Zhamnov
Geoff Sanderson
Zelepukin
Gilbert Dionne
Odjick
Kovalenko
Modry

I think that's all of them. More players from the 1990 Draft played at some point for the Flyers than from any Draft before or since.
- bmeltzer

That's quite a list. If I remember correctly, the 1990 draft was considered one of the best ever, if not the best. Bill, which draft years would you consider the top 5 of all time so far?

Educated and indoctrinated, right into stupidity.
- MJL

BINGO!!

Who ever said that is an idiot. We know Trump didn't say it. And by WE I mean you and me, otherwise you are making it up or just never bothered to find out what he said on your own instead relying on the media who think you are an idiot and will never fact check anything they say.

Rant over.
- MBFlyerfan

Such sincerity for being 100% wrong.

Remember back in March when you were posting about 5G causing Covid. Good times man.