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Forums :: Blog World :: Jeremy Laura: The Chasm between players and owners
Author Message
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not here to sell jerseys , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Nov 26 @ 3:10 PM ET
I’ll disagree on the shock. There is genuine surprise that the playoffs did nothing to bring in more revenue. Keep in mind, the billion + deficit is money that’s already been spent between last season’s salaries and expenses and this season’s. The league lost money on the bubble, adding to that. Almost all teams that miss the playoffs either break even or lose money in a normal year. San Jose is a team that’s operated on a deficit trying to win for years. With the shortened season and revenue falloff, at least half the teams are losing money without any revenue coming in. Massive staff layoffs have happened (Buffalo let go of at least 30). Clubs kept paying employees through the summer with nothing coming in. Season tickets was supposed to be the next big revenue injection but with no games scheduled, you can’t really sell them.

The last deal is akin to someone re-negotiating a mortgage. The situation was looked at and adjusted. Then, after that is re signed, someone loses their job/income. Now you have to go back and say you can’t afford what you agreed on. It is shockingly bad. We are now at 8 months with no real revenue coming in for clubs. Even though owners have “deep pockets”, try to imagine any business being able to go this long without money coming in. In reality, there’s at least one more month. The expenses will shoot up once camps start. NBC TV deal isn’t in place, and many regional deals charge a penalty when less than 82 games are played. Owners are looking at the next round of checks for players and nothing coming in to help with that. I don’t know of any businesses able to payout with almost a year of no revenues coming in.

- Jeremy Laura


Shouldn’t these things have been knowable or at least foreseen as possible risks when negotiating the contract. I’m not saying I know all the facts but I don’t see what shocking new development has come up that couldn’t be contemplated since they signed that agreement.

It also seems that we hear about the teams that don’t want to play or that are about to go under during every labour issue. It is certainly a useful card to play. Why aren’t we hearing about the teams that would be pissed if another season was lost because of placating the basket-case franchises?

Again, I have no problem if they want to try get a better deal but we shouldn’t expect the players just to roll over for them. They will be looking for concessions and/or some other way of reducing the burden of low revenue franchises.

It’s also likely that NBC wouldn’t be amused if the league fell on its face and couldn’t get a season going as they’re looking to renegotiate their contract.

Everyone is reporting no contact in the week since Gary dropped this proposal after daily meetings.
HenryHockey
Season Ticket Holder
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Gwinn, MI
Joined: 01.26.2020

Nov 26 @ 5:49 PM ET
I’ll disagree on the shock. There is genuine surprise that the playoffs did nothing to bring in more revenue. Keep in mind, the billion + deficit is money that’s already been spent between last season’s salaries and expenses and this season’s. The league lost money on the bubble, adding to that. Almost all teams that miss the playoffs either break even or lose money in a normal year. San Jose is a team that’s operated on a deficit trying to win for years. With the shortened season and revenue falloff, at least half the teams are losing money without any revenue coming in. Massive staff layoffs have happened (Buffalo let go of at least 30). Clubs kept paying employees through the summer with nothing coming in. Season tickets was supposed to be the next big revenue injection but with no games scheduled, you can’t really sell them.

The last deal is akin to someone re-negotiating a mortgage. The situation was looked at and adjusted. Then, after that is re signed, someone loses their job/income. Now you have to go back and say you can’t afford what you agreed on. It is shockingly bad. We are now at 8 months with no real revenue coming in for clubs. Even though owners have “deep pockets”, try to imagine any business being able to go this long without money coming in. In reality, there’s at least one more month. The expenses will shoot up once camps start. NBC TV deal isn’t in place, and many regional deals charge a penalty when less than 82 games are played. Owners are looking at the next round of checks for players and nothing coming in to help with that. I don’t know of any businesses able to payout with almost a year of no revenues coming in.

- Jeremy Laura

Good analogy JL!
Jeremy Laura
Detroit Red Wings
Location: MI
Joined: 01.26.2016

Nov 26 @ 6:12 PM ET
Shouldn’t these things have been knowable or at least foreseen as possible risks when negotiating the contract. I’m not saying I know all the facts but I don’t see what shocking new development has come up that couldn’t be contemplated since they signed that agreement.

It also seems that we hear about the teams that don’t want to play or that are about to go under during every labour issue. It is certainly a useful card to play. Why aren’t we hearing about the teams that would be pissed if another season was lost because of placating the basket-case franchises?

Again, I have no problem if they want to try get a better deal but we shouldn’t expect the players just to roll over for them. They will be looking for concessions and/or some other way of reducing the burden of low revenue franchises.

It’s also likely that NBC wouldn’t be amused if the league fell on its face and couldn’t get a season going as they’re looking to renegotiate their contract.

Everyone is reporting no contact in the week since Gary dropped this proposal after daily meetings.

- Canada Cup


The teams that are struggling are covered in the ownership side of franchise agreements. Essentially, once the HRR split is on the “make good”, then additional portions of revenue are given to teams that suffered losses. This was brought up several times when Vegas was working on getting a team. You just have to be willing to deep dive on some of the language when it is released. Part of the “attraction” the NHL sells to new owners is, “we’re here to help”. Luckily, Vegas had a fantastic first season.

When Nashville missed the playoffs ownership made it clear that they were losing money that year. San Jose ownership has made the point several times. Ottawa is another club that cites serious financial issues. Arizona, though with a new owner, is already looking to cut expenses. It’s not a lot of fun to dig through these things, but the information is there.

the other unique problem owners are having is if they have multiple sports teams. Basketball is losing revenue as well, so any group that has those two sports is seeing two simultaneous losses and that adds up quickly. The numbers you can use frequently are how Hockey Related Revenue is being handled. The last CBA made it a 50-50 split with the owners. So, if players are paying 20%, that year the league only made 30% of the total revenues after salaries were paid. That 20% is the “make good”. All of the expenses are based on projections. So, last year when they announced a billion dollar shortfall, that is how much money had not been recovered from paying out salaries and expenses. No one could have seen the full drop off on revenues. Basketball is much more popular in North America and they dropped of 70% in viewership. Hockey dropped off 60%. There were also penalties teams have to pay because the season didn’t go 82 games based on local television affiliates.

It’s hard to keep track of how the NHL machine is able to run. Football and basketball can live much more comfortably on their tv deals. Hockey relies on ticket sales for half of the total revenue they bring in. It’s an expensive sport in terms of how buildings have to keep ice, equipment, travel, personnel etc. a lot more goes into getting a team on ice than getting it onto a court or a field. My critique for ownership is, why are teams that consistently lose money year after year still being allowed to function in that capacity? It creates a massive issue anytime there is a hiccup in finances.
HenryHockey
Season Ticket Holder
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Gwinn, MI
Joined: 01.26.2020

Nov 26 @ 11:12 PM ET
The teams that are struggling are covered in the ownership side of franchise agreements. Essentially, once the HRR split is on the “make good”, then additional portions of revenue are given to teams that suffered losses. This was brought up several times when Vegas was working on getting a team. You just have to be willing to deep dive on some of the language when it is released. Part of the “attraction” the NHL sells to new owners is, “we’re here to help”. Luckily, Vegas had a fantastic first season.

When Nashville missed the playoffs ownership made it clear that they were losing money that year. San Jose ownership has made the point several times. Ottawa is another club that cites serious financial issues. Arizona, though with a new owner, is already looking to cut expenses. It’s not a lot of fun to dig through these things, but the information is there.

the other unique problem owners are having is if they have multiple sports teams. Basketball is losing revenue as well, so any group that has those two sports is seeing two simultaneous losses and that adds up quickly. The numbers you can use frequently are how Hockey Related Revenue is being handled. The last CBA made it a 50-50 split with the owners. So, if players are paying 20%, that year the league only made 30% of the total revenues after salaries were paid. That 20% is the “make good”. All of the expenses are based on projections. So, last year when they announced a billion dollar shortfall, that is how much money had not been recovered from paying out salaries and expenses. No one could have seen the full drop off on revenues. Basketball is much more popular in North America and they dropped of 70% in viewership. Hockey dropped off 60%. There were also penalties teams have to pay because the season didn’t go 82 games based on local television affiliates.

It’s hard to keep track of how the NHL machine is able to run. Football and basketball can live much more comfortably on their tv deals. Hockey relies on ticket sales for half of the total revenue they bring in. It’s an expensive sport in terms of how buildings have to keep ice, equipment, travel, personnel etc. a lot more goes into getting a team on ice than getting it onto a court or a field. My critique for ownership is, why are teams that consistently lose money year after year still being allowed to function in that capacity? It creates a massive issue anytime there is a hiccup in finances.

- Jeremy Laura


Good to see you are on top of all this JR!
Jeremy Laura
Detroit Red Wings
Location: MI
Joined: 01.26.2016

Nov 27 @ 2:11 PM ET
Good to see you are on top of all this JR!

- HenryHockey


J Vernon McGee once said, “a pessimist is someone who blows out their candle to better understand the dark”. I have no interest in going blindly into any of this. It’s just frustrating that you have to keep digging. No one just comes out and gives the “state of the league” until they absolutely have to
StargateSG1
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL
Joined: 03.07.2013

Nov 28 @ 12:39 PM ET
https://www.forbes.com/si...es-sense/?sh=3deab0157fbe

With NHL And NHLPA Facing Off On Salaries, The League’s Proposal Does Makes Sense
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