I'm with you Zezel, wouldn't be much to complain about if it wasn't for the salary Cap. Leaf fans should be really upset about the cap.
- winsix

Heard rumour that owners want to declare force majeure and call off season. CBA prohibits lockout and that’s their only way out. Not sure they can make a case though since you can’t really argue unforeseen circumstances from four months ago. I think players they’ll owners to go (frank) themselves on salary rollback.

You'd think a decade of mediocrity would have made some appreciate what you currently have: a young, skilled, exciting and competitive team.

It's always like that, fans always poop on the best players whenever they are not perfect but will completely accept a guy on a third line who hasn't scored for 15 games.

"He blocks shots, I like him".



- Scabeh

so true

Heard rumour that owners want to declare force majeure and call off season. CBA prohibits lockout and that’s their only way out. Not sure they can make a case though since you can’t really argue unforeseen circumstances from four months ago. I think players they’ll owners to go (frank) themselves on salary rollback.
- Canada Cup

I doubt its universal. Owners of financially struggling teams might be in a bigger hurry to cancel the season. They aren't getting handouts and if they're near the cap ceiling they can't mooch from the wealthier teams to cover costs.

You'd think a decade of mediocrity would have made some appreciate what you currently have: a young, skilled, exciting and competitive team.

It's always like that, fans always poop on the best players whenever they are not perfect but will completely accept a guy on a third line who hasn't scored for 15 games.

"He blocks shots, I like him".



- Scabeh

4 years of not winning a playoff round. The way this team was built is flawed, and Dubas knows it.

Regular season doesn’t mean shït, and frankly they haven’t been anything other than mediocre there either.

That’s precisely why it’s frustrating. We have all this talent, but it’s not being used correctly. Eventually the window will start closing as these players age. Many Leafs fans have become fans of individual players instead of the team. At some point they’ll realize it’s not about individual stats, and they’ll commit to playing a team game. They aren’t there yet.

You need players who do all the little things, like block shots. Idk why that eludes you, but whatever.

4 years of not winning a playoff round. The way this team was built is flawed, and Dubas knows it.

Regular season doesn’t mean shït, and frankly they haven’t been anything other than mediocre there either.

That’s precisely why it’s frustrating. We have all this talent, but it’s not being used correctly. Eventually the window will start closing as these players age. Many Leafs fans have become fans of individual players instead of the team. At some point they’ll realize it’s not about individual stats, and they’ll commit to playing a team game. They aren’t there yet.

You need players who do all the little things, like block shots. Idk why that eludes you, but whatever.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

We need a couple of players that do the little things but can also score 30. The Leafs' problem is that the players that have skill and toughness are mutually exclusive.

We need a couple of players that do the little things but can also score 30. The Leafs' problem is that the players that have skill and toughness are mutually exclusive.
- TheMussel

If they don’t want to block shots during the regular season, fine. But most of them better get in shooting lanes during the playoffs. Every team that wins is gritty. STL, TB, PIT, WSH all filled with players who’ll make sacrifices. The Leafs have a few of those players, but not enough. The leaders need to lead in all areas of the game, not just on the offensive side of things. It’s a culture issue that’s been allowed to fester. Dubas needs to make a statement and he’s been trying. Moving Kadri was a huge mistake, they’ve gotten so much worse after he left.

Also, for all the praise the Leafs have gotten for drafting skill first, it’s starting to backfire.

If they don’t want to block shots during the regular season, fine. But most of them better get in shooting lanes during the playoffs. Every team that wins is gritty. STL, TB, PIT, WSH all filled with players who’ll make sacrifices. The Leafs have a few of those players, but not enough. The leaders need to lead in all areas of the game, not just on the offensive side of things. It’s a culture issue that’s been allowed to fester. Dubas needs to make a statement and he’s been trying. Moving Kadri was a huge mistake, they’ve gotten so much worse after he left.

Also, for all the praise the Leafs have gotten for drafting skill first, it’s starting to backfire.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

No it hasn’t.

No it hasn’t.
- Steven_Seagull

Bird.

We need a couple of players that do the little things but can also score 30. The Leafs' problem is that the players that have skill and toughness are mutually exclusive.
- TheMussel

Matthews was 2nd in goals, 1st in takeaways by a forward (2nd overall), and 12th for blocked shot by a forward.

Matthews was 2nd in goals, 1st in takeaways by a forward (2nd overall), and 12th for blocked shot by a forward.
- Steven_Seagull

Nobody, absolutely nobody is complaining about Matthews.

Nobody, absolutely nobody is complaining about Matthews.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I never said anybody did. Just admiring the Stachethews.

Nobody, absolutely nobody is complaining about Matthews.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I recall someone, but I won’t be a 🐀
🥊

Starts with A

I recall someone, but I won’t be a 🐀
🥊

Starts with A
- mr.sir

I’m pretty sure he does it to troll me.

I recall someone, but I won’t be a 🐀
🥊

Starts with A
- mr.sir

Aethsie?

If they don’t want to block shots during the regular season, fine. But most of them better get in shooting lanes during the playoffs. Every team that wins is gritty. STL, TB, PIT, WSH all filled with players who’ll make sacrifices. The Leafs have a few of those players, but not enough. The leaders need to lead in all areas of the game, not just on the offensive side of things. It’s a culture issue that’s been allowed to fester. Dubas needs to make a statement and he’s been trying. Moving Kadri was a huge mistake, they’ve gotten so much worse after he left.

Also, for all the praise the Leafs have gotten for drafting skill first, it’s starting to backfire.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Absolutely this!

And I know the Bird disagreed already but fu3k him in his feathery a$$.

You draft talent, BPA and all that other sh1t because ultimately the BPA will have to become trade pieces to IMPROVE a team....not fill it with talented players that don't do the little things. Definitely not in the salary cap era.

BUT....and this is for the Bird....Dubas tried to fix that this off season. He brought in some grit, some older leadership and a couple of the "right" pieces to HOPEFULLY round out this team a bit.

And I totally agree with what you said earlier, people fall in love with the player and forget about the team.

Draft skill, trade skill at the right time for the right pieces.

If anyone doesn't think a hockey team needs guys to back check or block shots or throw a hit or not turtle when things get tough....they don't know hockey.

PS, Tavares might be the leadership in question....this SHOULD be Matthews team. Period. Wouldn't even have Tavares if we didn't have Matthews and Marner, he'd be in San Jose. Take the C from Tavares IMO.

Absolutely this!

And I know the Bird disagreed already but fu3k him in his feathery a$$.

You draft talent, BPA and all that other sh1t because ultimately the BPA will have to become trade pieces to IMPROVE a team....not fill it with talented players that don't do the little things. Definitely not in the salary cap era.

BUT....and this is for the Bird....Dubas tried to fix that this off season. He brought in some grit, some older leadership and a couple of the "right" pieces to HOPEFULLY round out this team a bit.

And I totally agree with what you said earlier, people fall in love with the player and forget about the team.

Draft skill, trade skill at the right time for the right pieces.

If anyone doesn't think a hockey team needs guys to back check or block shots or throw a hit or not turtle when things get tough....they don't know hockey.

PS, Tavares might be the leadership in question....this SHOULD be Matthews team. Period. Wouldn't even have Tavares if we didn't have Matthews and Marner, he'd be in San Jose. Take the C from Tavares IMO.
- underhill14

I wasn’t disagreeing with the overall premise. Just how he thinks drafting skill has backfired. It hasn’t. And what you’re describing has already been happening. That’s how they got Muzzin (and to a lesser extent Campbell/Clifford).

If they don’t want to block shots during the regular season, fine. But most of them better get in shooting lanes during the playoffs. Every team that wins is gritty. STL, TB, PIT, WSH all filled with players who’ll make sacrifices. The Leafs have a few of those players, but not enough. The leaders need to lead in all areas of the game, not just on the offensive side of things. It’s a culture issue that’s been allowed to fester. Dubas needs to make a statement and he’s been trying. Moving Kadri was a huge mistake, they’ve gotten so much worse after he left.

Also, for all the praise the Leafs have gotten for drafting skill first, it’s starting to backfire.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

And those teams also took some time and had some major setbacks before they figured it out

And those teams also took some time and had some major setbacks before they figured it out
- Zezel

But steady progression. Pit won in Sid’s fourth season. Caps had lots of success but struggled from Ovi’s one-way game. Tampa was just overdue, multiple finals..

Leafs haven’t won a round, and even regressed this past year.

But steady progression. Pit won in Sid’s fourth season. Caps had lots of success but struggled from Ovi’s one-way game. Tampa was just overdue, multiple finals..

Leafs haven’t won a round, and even regressed this past year.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

They were 30th overall 3 seasons ago.

They were 30th overall 3 seasons ago.
- Santo_44

Good point

Good point
- Zezel

They lost to a team that’s been top 5 in the league the past few seasons and a presidents trophy winning team.

Yeah losing to CBJ sucked and Dubas made some changes because of it. Let’s see how they do in a division with no elite teams.

But steady progression. Pit won in Sid’s fourth season. Caps had lots of success but struggled from Ovi’s one-way game. Tampa was just overdue, multiple finals..

Leafs haven’t won a round, and even regressed this past year.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

It's almost like they've faced the #1 team in the league, the #4 team in the league, and the #2 team in the league, in three consecutive seasons after finishing dead last in the league. Plus fail pathetically in a Covid cutoff season because some players weren't "engaged".

The "regression" this past season was because of playing a quarter of a season with a coach that they despised and also not playing a single game with a healthy roster.

4 years of not winning a playoff round. The way this team was built is flawed, and Dubas knows it.

Regular season doesn’t mean shït, and frankly they haven’t been anything other than mediocre there either.

That’s precisely why it’s frustrating. We have all this talent, but it’s not being used correctly. Eventually the window will start closing as these players age. Many Leafs fans have become fans of individual players instead of the team. At some point they’ll realize it’s not about individual stats, and they’ll commit to playing a team game. They aren’t there yet.

You need players who do all the little things, like block shots. Idk why that eludes you, but whatever.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I never said the opposite. You jump to conclusions way too early my friend.

I was just commenting on how it's always the great players of a team that are getting bashed and eventually (not always) run out of town while we tend to leave worst players alone.

I get the salary cap makes it that every player needs to pull his own weight of money but even good players on good contracts will get bashed if they have a bad week.

They were 30th overall 3 seasons ago.
- Santo_44

5 seasons ago, numbnuts.

And that was a purposeful tank.

We were discussing the progression of the team during the Matthews era.

My God ur dumb.

They lost to a team that’s been top 5 in the league the past few seasons and a presidents trophy winning team.

Yeah losing to CBJ sucked and Dubas made some changes because of it. Let’s see how they do in a division with no elite teams.
- Santo_44

Yep. Leaf fans would have made Chiarelli moves galore by now just because they didn't instantly win. Meanwhile, Boston has been an elite contender for a decade. Won once during that time. Tampa and Boston missed the playoffs during their current dominant eras. Tampa got swept - by Columbus, fittingly enough. People talked about trading Ovi for years before he won. St. Loius was good for years before they won.

That's sports though, fans'll cry nonstop until they win. Dubas' glasses and Willy's hair trigger Leaf fans.

Way I look at it, some fans think they have no chance, but Joe Thornton disagrees.