This is too easy. Plus/minus only measures goals for and against during even strength. Scheifele has never been a negative player. Laine on the other hand was on the ice for an astonishing 24 more goals against than for in 2018-19, where he went -24.

+/- is your advanced stat 🤣and that is too funny
- TheUltimateJet

It actually doesn’t. There’s a lot of issues with plus/minus. It punishes players in empty net situations for being relied on by their coaches to score goals, for one. That’s a low probability situation. So if, say, Ovechkin is 100% more likely to score when his team’s net is empty than the average guy, he’s still gonna end up a minus player in those situations.

It actually doesn’t. There’s a lot of issues with plus/minus. It punishes players in empty net situations for being relied on by their coaches to score goals, for one. That’s a low probability situation. So if, say, Ovechkin is 100% more likely to score when his team’s net is empty than the average guy, he’s still gonna end up a minus player in those situations.
- Rexypoo

Another circular argument!

I will pass on this one.

Apparently Liiga tracks player speed, and Henri Nikkanen was clocked at 39.3km/h.
This in and of itself wouldn’t do much for me, as a common dumbass who doesn’t know how fast things usually move, but we know McDavid’s top speed is 40.9km/h... so now I’m excited about Nikkanen’s potential all over again.

Training camp is gonna be my favourite part of this season.
- Rexypoo

It’s more important in hockey to have a quick first step or two or how fast you pivot, and can change direction. Of course this is still impressive but straight line top speed isn’t something that means to much at the end of the day

It actually doesn’t. There’s a lot of issues with plus/minus. It punishes players in empty net situations for being relied on by their coaches to score goals, for one. That’s a low probability situation. So if, say, Ovechkin is 100% more likely to score when his team’s net is empty than the average guy, he’s still gonna end up a minus player in those situations.
- Rexypoo

I can not honestly believe how much value people put into ripping plus minus because of empty net scenarios, seriously, empty net scenarios!!!! Hahahahhaa. I honestly find that argument so weak it really is humorous.
And yet, these same folks just down right turn an blind eye and ignore the faults in their own advanced metrics because of how heavily invested they are in them.
Breaking news!!!
The argument you made last year or two years ago using advanced stats has now been proven wrong by the same people continually improving these metrics ( which is great by the way) but have the balls to realize the stats you use have issues as do the ones anyone else choose to use.

Like i said, they all have flaws!!!!

Rick Nash was a phenomenal player in his time. We should be so lucky to have one of those.
- Rexypoo

Interestingly enough on hockey reference, Laine over the past three years based on adjusted point shares has been the most comparable to:

Dave Taylor - 94.8
Milan Hejduk - 93.9
Jimmy Carson - 92.9
Glen Anderson - 92.1
Marian Gaborik - 91.3
John Tavares - 91.2

What the similarity scores show is who does Laine's career trajectory based on age, years played, points, goals, assists, penalty minutes and +/- most closely emulate. I was too young to watch Dave Taylor early in his career, my dad always told he was good. Milan Hejduk had a good career too with one 50 goal and another 40+ goal seasons and I have no problems if Laine turns out like him.

I can not honestly believe how much value people put into ripping plus minus because of empty net scenarios, seriously, empty net scenarios!!!! Hahahahhaa. I honestly find that argument so weak it really is humorous.
And yet, these same folks just down right turn an blind eye and ignore the faults in their own advanced metrics because of how heavily invested they are in them.
Breaking news!!!
The argument you made last year or two years ago using advanced stats has now been proven wrong by the same people continually improving these metrics ( which is great by the way) but have the balls to realize the stats you use have issues as do the ones anyone else choose to use.

Like i said, they all have flaws!!!!
- Ross77

I agree Ross, advanced analytics are good for reference and not the be all.

I agree Ross, advanced analytics are good for reference and not the be all.
- TheUltimateJet

Let’s not forget that our vocal and local advanced stats devotee declared that his honeymoon was wonderful only after learning the coil count of the mattress.

Nobody who wants to be taken seriously mentions plus/minus. There’s better stats that do the same thing, but correctly
- Rexypoo

Yea, maybe in a lot of peoples' minds. But still you look at a player's +/- and he's, say, a -35, and another player is -10, it tells you a lot, or at least me.

Interestingly enough on hockey reference, Laine over the past three years based on adjusted point shares has been the most comparable to:

Dave Taylor - 94.8
Milan Hejduk - 93.9
Jimmy Carson - 92.9
Glen Anderson - 92.1
Marian Gaborik - 91.3
John Tavares - 91.2

What the similarity scores show is who does Laine's career trajectory based on age, years played, points, goals, assists, penalty minutes and +/- most closely emulate. I was too young to watch Dave Taylor early in his career, my dad always told he was good. Milan Hejduk had a good career too with one 50 goal and another 40+ goal seasons and I have no problems if Laine turns out like him.
- TheUltimateJet

Milan Hejduk is the reason I wear #23. Fun fact!

Yea, maybe in a lot of peoples' minds. But still you look at a player's +/- and he's, say, a -35, and another player is -10, it tells you a lot, or at least me.
- grahamzky

Usually says that one plays more, and for a worse team

Let’s not forget that our vocal and local advanced stats devotee declared that his honeymoon was wonderful only after learning the coil count of the mattress.
- 2.0

This is hilarious, and I have 0 idea what it means

I can not honestly believe how much value people put into ripping plus minus because of empty net scenarios, seriously, empty net scenarios!!!! Hahahahhaa. I honestly find that argument so weak it really is humorous.
And yet, these same folks just down right turn an blind eye and ignore the faults in their own advanced metrics because of how heavily invested they are in them.
Breaking news!!!
The argument you made last year or two years ago using advanced stats has now been proven wrong by the same people continually improving these metrics ( which is great by the way) but have the balls to realize the stats you use have issues as do the ones anyone else choose to use.

Like i said, they all have flaws!!!!
- Ross77

No idea what you’re referencing from 2 years ago

Usually says that one plays more, and for a worse team
- Rexypoo

But what if they're on the same team, and play approx same minutes, a minute or two difference?

Let’s not forget that our vocal and local advanced stats devotee declared that his honeymoon was wonderful only after learning the coil count of the mattress.
- 2.0

On another topic, see where it's saying that the Canucks are not going to be allowed to plan in Vancouver at the present time with the pandemic.

Wonder what this does to the NHL return to play? Might the Canucks be transferred to say Saskatoon, Hamilton or another Canadian city to start the season?

Or will the NHL even get off the ground? See Governors meeting today. Maybe we'll know more after? Sure hope it's "a go!"

I can not honestly believe how much value people put into ripping plus minus because of empty net scenarios, seriously, empty net scenarios!!!! Hahahahhaa. I honestly find that argument so weak it really is humorous.
And yet, these same folks just down right turn an blind eye and ignore the faults in their own advanced metrics because of how heavily invested they are in them.
Breaking news!!!
The argument you made last year or two years ago using advanced stats has now been proven wrong by the same people continually improving these metrics ( which is great by the way) but have the balls to realize the stats you use have issues as do the ones anyone else choose to use.

Like i said, they all have flaws!!!!
- Ross77

Ever hear of Kevin Woodley? He writes for
InGoal Magazine, is tuned in to all things goaltending and is pretty into fancy stats,
he's a fairly frequent guest on TSN radio 1290 so maybe some here have heard him interviewed, he's a pretty interesting listen when he's on.

They had him on just the other day to get his thoughts on Florida and Calgary creating goalie departments and eventually the convo came to the Jets/Hellebuyck/Jets G prospects and he was saying there's analytics that say the Jets defense wasn't that bad last season, myself I didn't think they were that bad aside from Bitetto, just thought that was interesting that there were analytics that came to that conclusion.

Doubt many that follow the Jets would of thought that was possible, it begs the question, are those analytics correct or flawed....

On another topic, see where it's saying that the Canucks are not going to be allowed to plan in Vancouver at the present time with the pandemic.

Wonder what this does to the NHL return to play? Might the Canucks be transferred to say Saskatoon, Hamilton or another Canadian city to start the season?

Or will the NHL even get off the ground? See Governors meeting today. Maybe we'll know more after? Sure hope it's "a go!"
- grahamzky

Since there are no fans in the stands, the most logical solution would be for all the teams to play in the USA. The Jets could play at UND.

Ever hear of Kevin Woodley? He writes for
InGoal Magazine, is tuned in to all things goaltending and is pretty into fancy stats,
he's a fairly frequent guest on TSN radio 1290 so maybe some here have heard him interviewed, he's a pretty interesting listen when he's on.

They had him on just the other day to get his thoughts on Florida and Calgary creating goalie departments and eventually the convo came to the Jets/Hellebuyck/Jets G prospects and he was saying there's analytics that say the Jets defense wasn't that bad last season, myself I didn't think they were that bad aside from Bitetto, just thought that was interesting that there were analytics that came to that conclusion.

Doubt many that follow the Jets would of thought that was possible, it begs the question, are those analytics correct or flawed....
- JetFuel

I have always said defense is an overrated position. Defense is generally based on positional play. LA is a good example of getting the most out of decent defenders.

Ever hear of Kevin Woodley? He writes for
InGoal Magazine, is tuned in to all things goaltending and is pretty into fancy stats,
he's a fairly frequent guest on TSN radio 1290 so maybe some here have heard him interviewed, he's a pretty interesting listen when he's on.

They had him on just the other day to get his thoughts on Florida and Calgary creating goalie departments and eventually the convo came to the Jets/Hellebuyck/Jets G prospects and he was saying there's analytics that say the Jets defense wasn't that bad last season, myself I didn't think they were that bad aside from Bitetto, just thought that was interesting that there were analytics that came to that conclusion.

Doubt many that follow the Jets would of thought that was possible, it begs the question, are those analytics correct or flawed....
- JetFuel

You have to be more specific in his analysis. Just looking at team stats the Jets gave up the 3rd most scoring chances in the NHL and were the worst in giving up high danger corsi.
You can make the argument that it was Maurice's system that was the problem instead of the players, but the Jets were bad last year.

But what if they're on the same team, and play approx same minutes, a minute or two difference?
- grahamzky

One plays with worse players and/or is worse

You have to be more specific in his analysis. Just looking at team stats the Jets gave up the 3rd most scoring chances in the NHL and were the worst in giving up high danger corsi.
You can make the argument that it was Maurice's system that was the problem instead of the players, but the Jets were bad last year.
- BWJumper

Yeah, no. There is absolutely nothing any of us can find to suggest that the Jets defence was good, or even average, in any capacity.
They allowed a ton of shots, scoring chances, and high-danger scoring chances all season long. Usually from point blank range, and while spending a lot of time getting cycled in our own zone.
I have no idea what dude bro could be referring to on 1290.

I have always said defense is an overrated position. Defense is generally based on positional play. LA is a good example of getting the most out of decent defenders.
- TheUltimateJet

LA also had a very good blueline last year. Drew Doughty was probably their 5th best defenceman.
Roy and Walker are legit.

You have to be more specific in his analysis. Just looking at team stats the Jets gave up the 3rd most scoring chances in the NHL and were the worst in giving up high danger corsi.
You can make the argument that it was Maurice's system that was the problem instead of the players, but the Jets were bad last year.
- BWJumper

I don't have to be more specific in his analysis cause he didn't give one, just said there's analytics that say the Jets defense wasn't that bad, unless I heard him wrong but I don't think
I did. This guy follows hockey pretty closely, not saying he's 100% right but maybe he knows what he's talking about, was just relaying what I heard.

Also I know very little about analytic hockey stats so I really don't know what he's referring to but apparently there's analytics that say
Seth Jones isn't good and many think he's one of the best dmen in the league so who's right and/or which analytics are right was more what I was getting at.

Yeah, no. There is absolutely nothing any of us can find to suggest that the Jets defence was good, or even average, in any capacity.
They allowed a ton of shots, scoring chances, and high-danger scoring chances all season long. Usually from point blank range, and while spending a lot of time getting cycled in our own zone.
I have no idea what dude bro could be referring to on 1290.
- Rexypoo

Look him up, anytime I hear him he seems pretty into the fancy stats, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what I heard.

I don't have to be more specific in his analysis cause he didn't give one, just said there's analytics that say the Jets defense wasn't that bad, unless I heard him wrong but I don't think
I did. This guy follows hockey pretty closely, not saying he's 100% right but maybe he knows what he's talking about, was just relaying what I heard.

Also I know very little about analytic hockey stats so I really don't know what he's referring to but apparently there's analytics that say
Seth Jones isn't good and many think he's one of the best dmen in the league so who's right and/or which analytics are right was more what I was getting at.
- JetFuel

I looked up his interview from 4 days ago. He said the Jets defense was "middle of the pack, in giving up lateral chances"

Look him up, anytime I hear him he seems pretty into the fancy stats, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what I heard.
- JetFuel

Wasn’t taking any shots at you. I appreciate the interview recommendation, as well as the discussion.