Wheeler is slower than Enstrom was ?

Ok...I can't prove otherwise, so I just will accept it as being factual. No sense in debating it.
- bennythehat

Allow me to expand on this, because saying it made me a little confused even though I fully believe it.

Blake Wheeler of present has around the same top end as Enstrom of peak age, but Enstrom got there a lot quicker than Wheeler does now. Wheels needs a bit of runway to get moving these days (which is fine), but the Jets system sees him stopped up at the blue lines or caught flat footed way too often, which does nothing for him or us. He needs momentum to succeed.

Blake Wheeler at the top of his game was insanely fast, especially for a man his size. He’s still fast, but we need to accept the fact we’ve probably seen the last of his signature “fly down the wing, leave the defender in the dust, and cut across the front of the net” maneuver

If Laine is willing to ink a 6 year, 5M AAV deal. I hope he isn't dealt as well! Many people think I "hate" laine, and that simply isn't true.

I hate his valuation. He is a terrible 2-way player. Nothing more needs to be discussed on that issue. He is also a top 3 sniper in this league, who used in offensive situations can help this team out.

If he wants an 8 year deal, north of 8M AAV, I want him shipped out for a solid return. Chevy knows what Laine is worth. He also knew Meyers and Trouba were not anywhere near what they were paid. He will take his time and sort this out.
- bikeguy99

I mean, he’s not a “terrible” two way player at all. He’s a bit below average defensively, which is the case with a lot of top end offensive players. Ovechkin is terrible, and Kane, Scheifele, and Connor are all bottom 10.

I mean, he’s not a “terrible” two way player at all. He’s a bit below average defensively, which is the case with a lot of top end offensive players. Ovechkin is terrible, and Kane, Scheifele, and Connor are all bottom 10.
- Rexypoo

Those players all mentioned are not the worst players on their teams defensively. Laine is! Check out his offensive zone starts, shot differentials when he is on the ice, puck possession (especially against elite competition), etc...

Furthermore Connor and Scheifele's defensive numbers went down this year. And guess what, Laine was their most consistent linemate.

Those players all mentioned are not the worst players on their teams defensively. Laine is! Check out his offensive zone starts, shot differentials when he is on the ice, puck possession (especially against elite competition), etc...

Furthermore Connor and Scheifele's defensive numbers went down this year. And guess what, Laine was their most consistent linemate.
- TheUltimateJet

I don’t care about zone starts, and we know Laine is dragged down quite a bit by his linemates.

Connor has never been good defensively, while we know Scheifele completely cratered in 2018-19, not last year.

Come on now

I don’t care about zone starts, and we know Laine is dragged down quite a bit by his linemates.

Connor has never been good defensively, while we know Scheifele completely cratered in 2018-19, not last year.

Come on now
- Rexypoo

According to natural statrick that is just not true, when Laine is away from Scheifele and Connor, their possession stats and time spent in the offensive zone increase.

You though can stick to whatever narrative you want.

Noah Juulsen is someone I’ll keep an eye on early this season. There is not a spot for him on Montreal as predicted now and he will have to clear waivers this season.

According to natural statrick that is just not true, when Laine is away from Scheifele and Connor, their possession stats and time spent in the offensive zone increase.

You though can stick to whatever narrative you want.
- TheUltimateJet

“Scheifele and Connor” is the inherently flawed part of this argument. The two together is the issue.

“Scheifele and Connor” is the inherently flawed part of this argument. The two together is the issue.
- Rexypoo

Take Scheifele away from Laine and all that you are left with is Adam Lowry with a killer shot. You will get killed in all aspects of the game outside of an accuracy competition.

According to natural statrick that is just not true, when Laine is away from Scheifele and Connor, their possession stats and time spent in the offensive zone increase.

You though can stick to whatever narrative you want.
- TheUltimateJet

Scheifele and Connor's possession time spent in the offensive zone increases when they are away from Laine? Really?

Really don't think you need statrick to realize that. Two eyes will do it.

Noah Juulsen is someone I’ll keep an eye on early this season. There is not a spot for him on Montreal as predicted now and he will have to clear waivers this season.
- Ross77

Saw Juulsen play Junior - never been impressed, keep remembering my opinion of him then.

However, maybe he's improved, but not noticeably to me. But only 23, so maybe still hope. D-men blossom later so that's why I wonder if there's still hope for guys like Niku and Stanley.

Take Scheifele away from Laine and all that you are left with is Adam Lowry with a killer shot. You will get killed in all aspects of the game outside of an accuracy competition.
- TheUltimateJet

Lowry with a killer shot', your Laine hatred is getting ridiculous Ultimate.

Noah Juulsen is someone I’ll keep an eye on early this season. There is not a spot for him on Montreal as predicted now and he will have to clear waivers this season.
- Ross77

Heard anything about how waivers is going to work? Are guys sent to the taxi squad going to have to clear waivers? If they get recalled and then sent back to the taxi squad do they have to clear waivers? Will the taxi squads still be a thing once the AHL season starts OR will the taxi squad players just be sent to the AHL and if so do they have to pass through waivers?

I haven't heard anything about this and I wonder what it'll mean for a lot of guys including some of the Jets namely Niku.

If Laine is willing to ink a 6 year, 5M AAV deal. I hope he isn't dealt as well! Many people think I "hate" laine, and that simply isn't true.

I hate his valuation. He is a terrible 2-way player. Nothing more needs to be discussed on that issue. He is also a top 3 sniper in this league, who used in offensive situations can help this team out.

If he wants an 8 year deal, north of 8M AAV, I want him shipped out for a solid return. Chevy knows what Laine is worth. He also knew Meyers and Trouba were not anywhere near what they were paid. He will take his time and sort this out.
- bikeguy99

A 6 year/5M AAV deal, yeah cause he's gonna take a paycut to sign long term.. Lol

Lowry with a killer shot', your Laine hatred is getting ridiculous Ultimate.
- JetFuel

Who said anything about hating Laine? I am just highlighting his advanced stats. His comparable on the team is Lowry. Both are the two worst forwards when it comes to facing elite competition.

I actually think him playing rover would be easier for him. Heck if Enstrom with his short stature and smooth skating could do it, why not Wheeler? Wheeler has got size, he's probably faster than most NHL forwards still, still has great vision where he can move the puck up the ice fast and makes players around him better. Like I said, modern day Phil Housley.

The only way he runs ragged is if Laine and Lowry are on the ice at the same time, then I would feel sorry for him.
- TheUltimateJet

A few things, I don't remember Enstrom being this rover you're describing but if he was he was likely a lot younger then Wheeler is now, you do realize Wheeler is 34 yeah? Did you not see how exhausted Wheeler looked this season, he's not the smoothest skater and he really has to pound his legs to get up to speed, I really don't see how he could play this rover you want, really the only guy I can see who could play a rover on the Jets would be Ehlers cause his skating and speed is elite.

Also Housley was a much better skater then Wheeler, not sure how you see a similarity.

A few things, I don't remember Enstrom being this rover you're describing but if he was he was likely a lot younger then Wheeler is now, you do realize Wheeler is 34 yeah? Did you not see how exhausted Wheeler looked this season, he's not the smoothest skater and he really has to pound his legs to get up to speed, I really don't see how he could play this rover you want, really the only guy I can see who could play a rover on the Jets would be Ehlers cause his skating and speed is elite.

Also Housley was a much better skater then Wheeler, not sure how you see a similarity.
- JetFuel

In 92-93, Housley had 79 assists.
In 2018-19, Wheeler had 71 assists.

Yeah I guess you are right not very similar at all. But then again I guess points don't matter that much. And, for the record I never said that Enstrom was a rover. I was responding to a post about Wheeler potentially being caved into his own zone.

In 92-93, Housley had 79 assists.
In 2018-19, Wheeler had 71 assists.

Yeah I guess you are right not very similar at all. But then again I guess points don't matter that much. And, for the record I never said that Enstrom was a rover. I was responding to a post about Wheeler potentially being caved into his own zone.
- TheUltimateJet

Housley was 29 that year, Wheeler is 34 now, that's a big difference and Housley was a different style skater then Wheeler, just don't think Wheeler has the legs left in him to be doing that much skating.

Who said anything about hating Laine? I am just highlighting his advanced stats. His comparable on the team is Lowry. Both are the two worst forwards when it comes to facing elite competition.
- TheUltimateJet

Laine is a rare player who constantly outscores his play driving deficiencies. Ovechkin is in the same boat, at the moment, as is an even more glaring example in Kuznetsov.
Kane is similar, although far more impactful offensively, and far far worse defensively.
If you handle Laine like the Caps handle Ovie, you will get better underlying and superficial results.

The mistake the Jets make A LOT is not realizing young players usually start out struggling with defence and possession, but round into form. This is a matter of coaching, usage, and development. You want the most out of these guys? Use them right. Lean on their strengths, cover their weaknesses, and give them opportunities to improve.
Instead, Maurice and co. pick and choose who gets the trust and the minutes at random, and never adjust to the circumstances.

Connor is overexposed, overmatched, and stagnant in his development. He has the skills to be the best player in the history of the franchise, and that’s including Teemu, and both of our guys named “chuk”. He should be every bit as capable as Ehlers, but with a better shot... only he isn’t. He doesn’t lead rushes, he doesn’t create chances, and he’s a nightmare on D. He plays at a slow pace, and he’s entirely reactive. He should be Pavel Bure 2.0, and he’s playing like Kyle Wellwood. You will never see Kyle Connor’s ceiling with Maurice in place, because Connor will never be able or allowed to progress past his rookie year.

Laine is being buried with a mediocre, rotating cast of mismatched linemates. He attempts a shockingly high number of zone entries and exits. He is visibly the first man in going both directions of late, and this is a huge problem. He doesn’t have the skating, the acceleration, to be playing stop and go in the neutral zone. This is why things go iffy. We have no transition game. We have no defensive game. Ehlers-Copp-Laine would utterly destroy fools, because they have no weaknesses as a unit.
If Laine plays in Vegas from 2017 on, he has a 60 goal season by now. Why? They are a dominant possession team, with a ludicrous emphasis on transition, and a willingness to shift things around until they work.

Housley was 29 that year, Wheeler is 34 now, that's a big difference and Housley was a different style skater then Wheeler, just don't think Wheeler has the legs left in him to be doing that much skating.
- JetFuel

Forget age, let's talk NHL seasons. Once you let me know how many each played than we will have this talk.

Also I never compared Housley and Wheelers skating. Two different eras.

Laine is a rare player who constantly outscores his play driving deficiencies. Ovechkin is in the same boat, at the moment, as is an even more glaring example in Kuznetsov.
Kane is similar, although far more impactful offensively, and far far worse defensively.
If you handle Laine like the Caps handle Ovie, you will get better underlying and superficial results.

The mistake the Jets make A LOT is not realizing young players usually start out struggling with defence and possession, but round into form. This is a matter of coaching, usage, and development. You want the most out of these guys? Use them right. Lean on their strengths, cover their weaknesses, and give them opportunities to improve.
Instead, Maurice and co. pick and choose who gets the trust and the minutes at random, and never adjust to the circumstances.

Connor is overexposed, overmatched, and stagnant in his development. He has the skills to be the best player in the history of the franchise, and that’s including Teemu, and both of our guys named “chuk”. He should be every bit as capable as Ehlers, but with a better shot... only he isn’t. He doesn’t lead rushes, he doesn’t create chances, and he’s a nightmare on D. He plays at a slow pace, and he’s entirely reactive. He should be Pavel Bure 2.0, and he’s playing like Kyle Wellwood. You will never see Kyle Connor’s ceiling with Maurice in place, because Connor will never be able or allowed to progress past his rookie year.

Laine is being buried with a mediocre, rotating cast of mismatched linemates. He attempts a shockingly high number of zone entries and exits. He is visibly the first man in going both directions of late, and this is a huge problem. He doesn’t have the skating, the acceleration, to be playing stop and go in the neutral zone. This is why things go iffy. We have no transition game. We have no defensive game. Ehlers-Copp-Laine would utterly destroy fools, because they have no weaknesses as a unit.
If Laine plays in Vegas from 2017 on, he has a 60 goal season by now. Why? They are a dominant possession team, with a ludicrous emphasis on transition, and a willingness to shift things around until they work.
- Rexypoo

You lost me at Ovechkin. The man scored 50 goals and 100+ points with Chris Clark on his line. Laine could barely crack 30 with Scheifele centering him all year.

Edit: Comparing Ovechkin to Laine is like comparing engine oil to apples. Never should they be mentioned in the same sentence. Outside of having similar shots, both players have nothing in common. Ovechkin hits, makes plays, makes line mates into superstars, scores goals (no matter who is coaching the team), hustles hard, etc.. Laine he just shoots. Ovechkin also was hitting 50 goals by his second season with Danus Zubrus and Chris Clark. I could go on and on and on.....

Also the fact that him needing special players to make him into a superstar are consistently mentioned makes me wonder, what is really going on with this player? If that's the case why not just trade Laine for those special players and allow players like Ehlers for example to become exceptional.

Heard anything about how waivers is going to work? Are guys sent to the taxi squad going to have to clear waivers? If they get recalled and then sent back to the taxi squad do they have to clear waivers? Will the taxi squads still be a thing once the AHL season starts OR will the taxi squad players just be sent to the AHL and if so do they have to pass through waivers?

I haven't heard anything about this and I wonder what it'll mean for a lot of guys including some of the Jets namely Niku.
- JetFuel

you are right, I hadn't thought about the expanded rosters and how that will play out.

Vessalainen is another one, he needs to play somewhere and not just sit

Forget age, let's talk NHL seasons. Once you let me know how many each played than we will have this talk.

Also I never compared Housley and Wheelers skating. Two different eras.
- TheUltimateJet

Well at that point of Housley's career it was his 11th season and he was 29, this upcoming season will be Wheeler's 13th and he's 34, those 4 or 5 years difference in age are a massive factor.

I bring up their skating because to be a rover you need to be a very good skater and as I said Wheeler really needs to push his legs hard now to get up to speed, a speedy player who's skating looks effortless like Ehlers or say Roslovic would be able to play a rover style position, skating for Housley looked effortless.

I'm not trying to crap on Wheeler or your idea, just don't think he's the guy for it for a few reasons.

you are right, I hadn't thought about the expanded rosters and how that will play out.

Vessalainen is another one, he needs to play somewhere and not just sit
- Ross77

Yeah I haven't heard anything discussed around that, like will waivers apply to movement between the main and taxi squad rosters.
I doubt waivers will apply to the taxi squads but idk, just something I was wondering about.

Yeah he needs to play for sure, honestly even if it's not the best place for him to develop it'd be better for Vesalainen to stay in Finland and play a lot of minutes then come back and sit on the taxi squad roster.

A 6 year/5M AAV deal, yeah cause he's gonna take a paycut to sign long term.. Lol
- JetFuel

K.... 2 year then. I don't care, so long as the AAV isn't high. Laine has a lot more to prove before he makes the big $$$. I truly do not believe a team can be a contender if they are handing out north of 7.5M AAV to players that don't have a complete game. If you don't want them on the ice when you are protecting a 1 goal lead, they simply aren't worth a massive payday. Laine has paced for 66 points per 82 games in his career, which is solid. Solid, but not exceptional, especially when you actually watch how the guy plays without the puck. He can grow into a superstar, but I need to see WAY more progress before that can be realistic.

Whats your issue with Scheifele? I have him as a top 10 C in this league personally.

Well at that point of Housley's career it was his 11th season and he was 29, this upcoming season will be Wheeler's 13th and he's 34, those 4 or 5 years difference in age are a massive factor.

I bring up their skating because to be a rover you need to be a very good skater and as I said Wheeler really needs to push his legs hard now to get up to speed, a speedy player who's skating looks effortless like Ehlers or say Roslovic would be able to play a rover style position, skating for Housley looked effortless.

I'm not trying to crap on Wheeler or your idea, just don't think he's the guy for it for a few reasons.
- JetFuel

So both players hit milestones in their 11th seasons? I don't think anyone really remembers how Housley skated. Game was very different then too. Everyone seems to always remember the past with a false sense of nostalgia.